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ATD#8 Bob Cole Round 1: #3 Boston vs. #6 Winnipeg

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Old
11-19-2007, 11:07 AM
  #1
VanIslander
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ATD#8 Bob Cole Round 1: #3 Boston vs. #6 Winnipeg

The Bob Cole division:

First Round Match-Up



Boston Bruins

Coach: Art Ross
Captain: Sid Abel
Alternates: Doug Harvey, Keith Magnuson

Frank Mahovlich - Sid Abel - Bernie Geoffrion
Vsevolod Bobrov - Billy Burch - Tim Kerr
Nick Metz - Joel Otto - Alf Smith
Gerard Gallant - Pit Lepine - Odie Cleghorn
Ken Randall
Ron Duguay

Doug Harvey - Ott Heller
Pat Stapleton - Keith Magnuson
Dollard St. Laurent - Reed Larson
Joe Simpson

George Hainsworth
Curtis Joseph



vs.



Winnipeg Jets

Coach: Lester Patrick
Captain: Pat LaFontaine
Alternates: Rod Gilbert, Serge Savard

Aurel Joliat - Pat LaFontaine - Jaromir Jagr
Luc Robitaille - Bobby Smith - Rod Gilbert
Don McKenney - Mike Peca - Duane Sutter
Jay Pandolfo - John Madden - Ryan Walter
Thomas Holmstrom

Serge Savard - Phil Housley
Ken Daneyko - Terry Harper
Graham Drinkwater - Barclay Plager
Mathieu Schneider

Martin Brodeur
Ron Hextall
Kirk McLean

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Old
11-19-2007, 11:08 AM
  #2
VanIslander
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Boston Bruins

PP1: Mahovlich - Abel - T.Kerr - Harvey - Geoffrion
PP2: Bobrov - Burch - A.Smith - Stapleton - Larson

PK1: Metz - Otto - Harvey - Magnuson
PK2: Abel - Lepine - St. Laurent - Heller

vs.

Winnipeg Jets

PP1: Joliat - LaFontaine - Jagr - Housley - Drinkwater
PP2: Robitaille - Smith - Gilbert - Savard - Plager

PK1: McKenney - Peca - Daneyko - Harper
PK2: Pandolfo - Madden - Savard - Plager


Last edited by VanIslander: 11-19-2007 at 06:06 PM.
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Old
11-19-2007, 01:08 PM
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I really like a Metz-Otto-Smith line as a foil to Winnipeg's top line. I don't see that same shutdown ability from either of Winnipeg's bottom two lines (though they do have some very good defensive players sprinkled through).

Boston also has a significant edge in terms of scoring from the defense. Harvey, Stapleton and Larson will be able to pick up a lot of the secondary scoring for their team.

Winnipeg wins the goaltending and coaching battle rather handily though. Their defense may be a little slow, but having Brodeur retrieving pucks behind the net will help quite a bit. I like Winnipeg's second line quite a bit as well. Kerr and Bobrov aren't bad by any means, but Robitaille-Smith-Gilbert is a decided advantage, IMO. The lack of a transition game from their defense will hurt though.

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11-19-2007, 04:40 PM
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I agree with pit, I was really disappointed when I heard we would be facing Boston, because of that 3rd line, and IMO, their defensive talents will have some impact on our top line. However, IMO, Boston's top line isn't even as explosive offensively as our second line (although they're a much more complete unit), so our philosiphy of having two balanced two-way lines over one fully shutdown focused line should be fine.

I think another thing that could hurt us is that we need to get a good transition game going from the defence in order to penetrate the Boston blueline. I really hope that our offense can get things going and get past the solid rock that Boston has, known as Doug Harvey. Not only that, but your defense also has some offensive talent. Bullet Joe Simpson was a absolute steal at where you got him.

But on the positive side, I feel we have a fair advantage in net. Brodeur is well, Brodeur. Hextall is a more then capable backup. McLean is the best 3rd goalie in the draft, although how much of an impact he will have remains to be seen. I also agree with pitseleh that we have a advantage in coaching.

One thing that I have to say about our roster that is flying under the radar is that we have about 6 guys who we feel confidence in to take faceoffs. There are obviously our 4 centerman, but there is also Don McKenney and Ryan Walter, both of whom I believe were very capable at taking draws. So our bottom two lines each have 2 faceoff guys at all times, barring injury, or if we decide to take someone out and put in Tomas Holmstrom.

Overall, I like the teams that we've both put together, and if I lose, I'd fully accept the fact that I was beat by a solid, solid team. But who has time for talk like that, because we aren't going down without a fight. And you guys better be ready to fight back, because we sure won't fall until we can no longer stand.

Good luck, and let the best team win.

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11-19-2007, 08:22 PM
  #5
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I think Boston's first line is a line that works. It's one of the best in the draft, for my money. You have Mahovlich's size and skill, Abel's smarts and two-way game, and Geoffrion's goal-scoring ability and toughness. And they have a combined 16 Cups between them. This is the time of year when Geoffrion's status soars. Eight straight playoffs with double digit point totals.

In typical Boston Bruin fashion, this team has an outstanding defence. Bullet Joe Simpson is likely the best No. 7 defenceman since the draft expanded to 28 teams. He's better than some 5 or 6 defencemen. Harvey and Heller is one of the best shut-down pairings in the draft.

It's going to be a very tough team to score against. Boston has two excellent checking lines. That third line will cause a lot of problems. Gerard Gallant is one of the best fourth line LWs available. And the defence is very tough.

Winnipeg has excellent skill. Especially on the first two lines. They don't have a true No. 1 centre, but LaFontaine fits well with Jagr and Joliat. And the second line can score, too. Concern is if the defencemen, outside of Housley and Savard, can get the puck to the forwards.

Brodeur has a definite edge over Hainsworth. But Hainsworth is still a good (but not great No. 1) who rates in the 21-25 category for goalies. Winnipeg also has a definite edge behind the bench. The Jets are going to need those two edges to really play out if they are going to beat the Bruins.

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11-20-2007, 01:08 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vancityluongo View Post
However, IMO, Boston's top line isn't even as explosive offensively as our second line (although they're a much more complete unit), so our philosiphy of having two balanced two-way lines over one fully shutdown focused line should be fine.
- right off the bat, I have to disagree with this statement. What about Mahovlich - Abel - Geoffrion screams "unexplosive"? They absolutely are an explosive unit that will be difficult to defend. The best tactic against this line might be to take runs at Bernie Geoffrion and hope that something snaps, though I don't think Winnipeg is really the team to do it. At any rate, a comparison of 1st lines shows a clear advantage for Boston, in my opinion.

- the key matchup of this series is Winnipeg's 2nd line vs. Boston's 2nd pairing. I dunno if Speaker will use his 4th line against Winnipeg's 2nd or not. Boston's 4th line is high-end when it comes to secondary scoring at that spot on the roster, but defensively only Lepine really stands out to me, so I doubt they're used in a shutdown role.

- to be honest, I think Bobby Smith is overrated because he's 6'4" 210 lbs. He's a decent enough second liner, but he wasn't actually very aggressive for his size, his scoring feats aren't really all that impressive, in the regular season (only once a top-10 scorer, I believe) or in the playoffs (he scored consistently at a bit below a point-per-game clip - which in the 80's is middling - and had really only one big playoff year) on some very solid teams. Robitaille is a guy who's a great complementary player next to a superstar playmaker because he's great at floating into the right spots and finishing plays, but next to Smith, I dunno. Rod Gilbert is an excellent 2nd liner and I've got only praise for him. Winnipeg's 2nd line does have a lot of talent and they'll have an opportunity to do some real damage because I think Stapleton/Magnuson are a bit unreliable in their own zone, especially if you beat on Magnuson with aggressive forecheckers.

- the almost nonexistent offense from Winnipeg's second pairing is really going to hurt them in this matchup. With that second line, there is a real opportunity to attack Boston's 2nd pairing, but who starts the transition game when they're on the ice? Brodeur? Moving Drinkwater up to the second pairing might be wise, in all honesty.

- the presence of two solid checkinglines in Winnipeg will hurt Boston's offensive production from the second line, but the Bruins' ace in the hole is Cleghorn and Gallant on the 4th line (with Reed Larson supporting from the blueline) going against weak defensive forward lines and Drinkwater/Plager on defense.

- Boston has a pretty clear special teams advantage, in my mind, if for no other reason than because the Bruins' 1st unit powerplay is going to maul Winnipeg's 1st unit PK. Winnipeg has very solid special teams depth, but McKenney-Peca-Daneyko-Harper are seriously overmatched by that Boston 1st unit.

- Brodeur constitutes a clear advantage in goal, and I don't agree with those who like to rip on him for being a system goalie, or whatnot. The guy is money and alot of the time he was the one who made the system in New Jersey look good, not the other way around. Martin will need to be very good in this series, because I think Boston's skaters are superior, as a whole. If Brodeur can stand on his head against that Bruins powerplay and frustrate them a bit, it might tip the scales in Winnipeg's favor. If the Bruins' big guns get hot and confident early, I don't think the series goes to seven games.

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11-20-2007, 04:37 AM
  #7
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Originally Posted by God Bless Canada View Post
Harvey and Heller is one of the best shut-down pairings in the draft.
No, it's one of the best scientifically possible. Mostly because Harvey is the best ever.

One thought I have to say, Joliat was a steal. The more I read about him, the more I think he might be the #3 LW ever. He's going to be the key to Winnipeg's success, and stopping him will be Boston's key.

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11-20-2007, 06:27 PM
  #8
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Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
- right off the bat, I have to disagree with this statement. What about Mahovlich - Abel - Geoffrion screams "unexplosive"? They absolutely are an explosive unit that will be difficult to defend. The best tactic against this line might be to take runs at Bernie Geoffrion and hope that something snaps, though I don't think Winnipeg is really the team to do it. At any rate, a comparison of 1st lines shows a clear advantage for Boston, in my opinion.
I think it's what you define as "expolsive". What I was trying to say is pure offensive talent. Against a weak defense, I think our top line would score in buckets. Yeah, Boston has a much more complete unit, and in reality, I would say they have an advantage over our top line, but it terms of pure offensive talent and ability, I give the edge to our guys.

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Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
- the almost nonexistent offense from Winnipeg's second pairing is really going to hurt them in this matchup. With that second line, there is a real opportunity to attack Boston's 2nd pairing, but who starts the transition game when they're on the ice? Brodeur? Moving Drinkwater up to the second pairing might be wise, in all honesty.
We'll definitely think about this. Thanks for the suggestion.

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- the presence of two solid checkinglines in Winnipeg will hurt Boston's offensive production from the second line, but the Bruins' ace in the hole is Cleghorn and Gallant on the 4th line (with Reed Larson supporting from the blueline) going against weak defensive forward lines and Drinkwater/Plager on defense.
First you say we have two solid checking lines, then you say we'll be hurt by having weak defensive forward lines? Me confused.

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11-20-2007, 06:29 PM
  #9
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Originally Posted by vancityluongo View Post
First you say we have two solid checking lines, then you say we'll be hurt by having weak defensive forward lines? Me confused.
He's saying you have two solid checking lines but your top-6 forwards are weak defensively.

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11-20-2007, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
He's saying you have two solid checking lines but your top-6 forwards are weak defensively.
Ah, okay, thanks.

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11-23-2007, 04:20 PM
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Whoa, this is the most boring series so far, in terms of reviews. I hope that means I'm winning in a landslide, and there's no point in even commenting on how superior my team is to every other team in every way. Right guys?

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11-23-2007, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by vancityluongo View Post
Whoa, this is the most boring series so far, in terms of reviews. I hope that means I'm winning in a landslide, and there's no point in even commenting on how superior my team is to every other team in every way. Right guys?
Well... not your fault. There was a heck of a catfight between the GM's of New York and Portage!

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11-24-2007, 10:16 PM
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Last minute d-pairing changes:

Harper-Housley
Savard-Drinkwater
Daneyko-Plager


Bah. Should've done this earlier.

Edit: Guys, can I get some last minute feedback...I doubt it'll affect voting, but just for the sake of it? Thanks.


Last edited by vancityluongo: 11-24-2007 at 10:27 PM.
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11-25-2007, 05:38 AM
  #14
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No matter who he's paired with Savard is by far your best D-Man.

And because this series should not be boring. I volunteer to write it!

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11-25-2007, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by vancityluongo View Post
Last minute d-pairing changes:

Harper-Housley
Savard-Drinkwater
Daneyko-Plager


Bah. Should've done this earlier.

Edit: Guys, can I get some last minute feedback...I doubt it'll affect voting, but just for the sake of it? Thanks.
I liked your original blueline the best (Serge Savard - Phil Housley / Ken Daneyko - Terry Harper / Graham Drinkwater - Barclay Plager).

Savard is probably one of the top ten best defensive defensemen ever so he'll be able to cover up most of Housley's numerous mistakes. This is a really bi-polar pairing (Savard with minimal offense and Housley with no defense). Obviously you would relegate Housley to the third pairing and PP time when you're holding on to a lead late in the game.

I'd consider Drinkwater/Plager your second pair. Plager was an excellent defensive blueliner--he had good speed, was great shot blocker and was a tough, aggressive hitter. I don't know too much about Drinkwater; the fact that he regularly player as a forward implies that he might not be great in the defensize zone (though switching between D and F was common in Drinkwater's era). By all accounts he had great speed and stickhandling abilities.

Harper/Daneyko is a solid, steady third pair. Very few goals will be scored when they're on the ice, either for your team or your opponents.

Your blueline will do a good job of preventing shots (ideal for Brodeur) and Housley is a better rusher than Jagr ever had in his prime years. (Look at the quality of defensemen Jagr played with each year he won the Art Ross, it's quite amazing, actually). Still, I think your blueline is a bit too bipolar (for lack of a better term). You have four great defensive players, but none of them provide very much offense. You also have two great offensive blueliners, but they're both questionable or weak defensively. I would have preferred one or two defensemen that could do everything--obviously it's hard to get a Shore or Robinson, but a solid all-around #2 defenseman like Pat Stapleton, Marcel Pronovost, Mark Howe (maybe a #1), etc., would have helped.

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11-25-2007, 03:33 PM
  #16
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Originally Posted by Hockey Outsider View Post

Harper/Daneyko is a solid, steady third pair. Very few goals will be scored when they're on the ice, either for your team or your opponents.

Your blueline will do a good job of preventing shots (ideal for Brodeur) and Housley is a better rusher than Jagr ever had in his prime years. (Look at the quality of defensemen Jagr played with each year he won the Art Ross, it's quite amazing, actually). Still, I think your blueline is a bit too bipolar (for lack of a better term). You have four great defensive players, but none of them provide very much offense. You also have two great offensive blueliners, but they're both questionable or weak defensively. I would have preferred one or two defensemen that could do everything--obviously it's hard to get a Shore or Robinson, but a solid all-around #2 defenseman like Pat Stapleton, Marcel Pronovost, Mark Howe (maybe a #1), etc., would have helped.
... Or not exactly anybody THAT expansive. Guys like Hajt, Korab or Phil Russell would have been a great fit instead of Daneyko (it could be any of your 3 guys except Savard, only I think Daneyko was the worse your of your bunch (lesser would be a better term)). The said three had the size, defensive and somewhat similar defensive skills (Hajt didn't had the aggression of Daneyko, but is probably the most skilled of the three guys I named ; Russell is at the other end of the spectrum - which means he's basically a tougher Daneyko who can play on your PP and skate faster, but not exactly a scientific D-Men if you know what I mean, and Korab in the middle).

EDIT : This said, Daneyko has cup-winning experience and chemistery with Brodeur.


Last edited by MXD: 11-25-2007 at 04:04 PM.
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Old
11-26-2007, 12:02 PM
  #17
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Originally Posted by Hockey Outsider View Post
I liked your original blueline the best (Serge Savard - Phil Housley / Ken Daneyko - Terry Harper / Graham Drinkwater - Barclay Plager).

Savard is probably one of the top ten best defensive defensemen ever so he'll be able to cover up most of Housley's numerous mistakes. This is a really bi-polar pairing (Savard with minimal offense and Housley with no defense). Obviously you would relegate Housley to the third pairing and PP time when you're holding on to a lead late in the game.

I'd consider Drinkwater/Plager your second pair. Plager was an excellent defensive blueliner--he had good speed, was great shot blocker and was a tough, aggressive hitter. I don't know too much about Drinkwater; the fact that he regularly player as a forward implies that he might not be great in the defensize zone (though switching between D and F was common in Drinkwater's era). By all accounts he had great speed and stickhandling abilities.

Harper/Daneyko is a solid, steady third pair. Very few goals will be scored when they're on the ice, either for your team or your opponents.

Your blueline will do a good job of preventing shots (ideal for Brodeur) and Housley is a better rusher than Jagr ever had in his prime years. (Look at the quality of defensemen Jagr played with each year he won the Art Ross, it's quite amazing, actually). Still, I think your blueline is a bit too bipolar (for lack of a better term). You have four great defensive players, but none of them provide very much offense. You also have two great offensive blueliners, but they're both questionable or weak defensively. I would have preferred one or two defensemen that could do everything--obviously it's hard to get a Shore or Robinson, but a solid all-around #2 defenseman like Pat Stapleton, Marcel Pronovost, Mark Howe (maybe a #1), etc., would have helped.
Hmm. I agree with everything you said...only thing is, I'm not sure if Drinkwater should be getting Top 4 minutes, especially ahead of my 2nd best defensive d-man, Harper. Although, I guess I could give Harper the occasional shift with Plager...and then have him play his regular shift with Daneyko...hmm. I agree though, taht I don't have any two-way defenseman, unless you count Savard...meh.

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... Or not exactly anybody THAT expansive. Guys like Hajt, Korab or Phil Russell would have been a great fit instead of Daneyko (it could be any of your 3 guys except Savard, only I think Daneyko was the worse your of your bunch (lesser would be a better term)). The said three had the size, defensive and somewhat similar defensive skills (Hajt didn't had the aggression of Daneyko, but is probably the most skilled of the three guys I named ; Russell is at the other end of the spectrum - which means he's basically a tougher Daneyko who can play on your PP and skate faster, but not exactly a scientific D-Men if you know what I mean, and Korab in the middle).

EDIT : This said, Daneyko has cup-winning experience and chemistery with Brodeur.
Yeah...Daneyko may not have been the best pickup on a team that already had Plager, Harper and Savard...I was scared that with my explosive top lines, we would let in a ton of goals...so we took a bunch of defensive minded blueliners. I'm not sure if it was the right strategy...meh.


But back to HO's comments, how do these pairings sound?

Savard-Housley (Best offensive d-man, Best defensive d-man)

Drinkwater-Harper (2nd Best offensive d-man, 2nd Best defensive d-man)

Daneyko-Plager (Solid "shutdown" pairing)

Or should I go with what you suggested?

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11-27-2007, 04:08 AM
  #18
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Game 1: Winnipeg follows a simple format, get the puck to Jagr and let him work. Problem is, Bostom also has a simple game plan, Harvey vs Jagr. And Harvey is winning convincingly. Winnipeg can't get it's big line going and Hainsworth is taking care of the rest. Gilbert is able to score, but it is quickly matched by Bobrov. Late in the game Geoffrion fires home the winner on a power play.
Boston wins game 1 2-1 for a 1-0 series lead.

Game 2: Momentum and home ice advantage prove huge for Boston, Harvey, Heller, Metz, Otto and Smith have Joliat-Lafontaine-Jagr eating out of their hands. The only thing keeping Winnipeg alive is Brodeur's flawless play. But that can't last forever as Abel converts on a pass from Geoffrion. Winnipeg tries to press on, but Harvey is just a one man denial machine when he's on the ice. Robitaille comes close, but Hainsworth comes up big when called on.
Boston wins game 2 1-0 for a 2-0 series lead.

Game 3: The move to Winnipeg is huge, the Jagr line is able to get some ice time against defensemen other than Harvey. Jagr muscles his way past Magnuson and fires a shot home. Unfortunately for Winnipeg, no matter who Harvey is on the ice against, Boston controls the play. Mahovalich mirror's Jagr's play with Daneyko being out-muscled. Boston controls much of the play, but Brodeur doesn't let them run away with it. Mahovalich sets up Geoffrion for the lead, but, soon after, when Jagr is face with St. Laurent, het sets up Lafontaine for a goal to tie it back up. Winnipeg is playing their hearts out but can't match Harvey's quick thinking. The game goes into overtime. Winnipeg presses on, they start controlling the play, Smith, back to Housley, Housley pinches, Otto strips him of the puck, passes to Smith, Smith one on one with Savard, Savard strips him of the puck, but Metz levels him as soon as he does, Smith takes the puck again, passes back to Metz, one timer, GOAL!
Boston wins game 3 3-2 in OT for a 3-0 series lead.

Game 4: Gut check time in Winnipeg. They've let to lose by more than one, but they've yet to win. The fire is there, but the reign of Harvey is overwhelming. Desperate for a change, Patrick sits his team down and lays out some new strategies and with one simple play everything changes. Housley has the puck, Metz is watching Jagr like a hawk and Harvey is ready to pounce. Housley skates towards Jagr and goes to pass but instead rifles a pass across ice to Joliat and before anyone can react, Joliat is barring down on Hainsworth, firing the puck five hole. Winnipeg doesn't press harder they wait, they play patient, smart, waiting for a mistake, and it happens when Otto bobbles a pass, Joliat pounces, skates through Heller and onto a breakaway, fakes a slapper and dekes Hainsworth, scoring on a backhand. The floodgates have opened. Robitaille scores, Drinkwater scores, Jagr scores. Harvey is rattled, Hainsworth is pulled. In the last minute of play, Joliat is battling Harvey in the corner, Joliat comes out with the puck, cuts in front, holds it... holds it... Joseph is out of position, JOLIAT SCORES! HAT TRICK! And the hats rain down, Joliat tosses off his helmet and puts on a Winnipeg Jets cap, holds his hands high and skates a victory lap as the crowd chants, "JO-LI-AT! JO-LI-AT!"
Winnipeg wins game 4 6-0 to make the series 3-1.


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11-27-2007, 06:58 PM
  #19
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Awesome write-ups thus far Nalyd. I must say, the games are going exactly how I thought they would. Waiting to see the final result.

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11-28-2007, 03:24 AM
  #20
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Game 5: Winnipeg is carrying it's momentum and Joliat is leading the charge. He sets up an early goal by Housley. Burch keeps things interesting by tying the game, but it is a drop in the bucket against the Winterpeg Storm. Gilbert and Joliat add goals in the 2nd. Bobrov scores to try to lead a comeback, but Mike Peca puts icing on the cake.
Winnipeg wins game 5 4-2 to lessen Boston's lead to 3-2.

Game 6: The high-flying Winnipeg style is still in motion, but Harvey, Metz, Heller, Otto, Smith and Hainsworth are beginning to get a handle on it. Winnipeg is controlling the puck, but only Jagr is able to bury a shot passed Hainsworth. In the 2nd period Plager takes a 5 minute slashing major for lashing out at Bobrov. And Boston makes the most of the opportunity. Geoffrion scores on a slapshot and Kerr deflects a Doug Harvey shot. Deflated, the Jets try to press on but don't have it in them, they're burnt out and exhausted. Harvey scores an empty net goal.
Boston wins game 6 3-1 for a 4-2 series win.

Boston wins in 6 games.
Three Stars:
3rd Aurel Joliat
2nd Bernie "Boom Boom" Geoffrion
1st Doug Harvey

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11-28-2007, 04:32 PM
  #21
vancityluongo
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It was inevitable. Congrats to Boston on a well-deserved victory.

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11-28-2007, 05:09 PM
  #22
MXD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vancityluongo View Post
It was inevitable. Congrats to Boston on a well-deserved victory.

Good job VCL. You had a MUCH better team than last draft.

Good job ES. I'll say it again : I'd like to build teams like yours. Too bad I ended up building the exact opposite this time!

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