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worrying trend in the NHL - salary

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11-21-2007, 05:11 AM
  #1
NYRJurgen88
 
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worrying trend in the NHL - salary

Is it me or are many GM's completely overpaying to lock up their kids?

Getzlaf, while a great player isnt a 5m player yet...

Dustin Brown is a great kid, but certainly isnt a 4m/6yr player yet....

Milan Michalek is a great player but isnt a 4m/6yr player yet....

these are just a few and it concerns me that these prices will drive up the whole league and force everyone to over pay again. What was the point of the cap????

I think (again) Kevin Lowe hasn't helped by giving Hemsky 4m/6yrs last year...

On a similar note - with Mike Fisher getting 4m as of next year and with Avery doing well this year now's he back, i thgink he'll be looking for 3m+ and im not sure we'll have it to give him....

thoughts????

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11-21-2007, 05:45 AM
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i'll tell you what will happen, Bettman will expand and then up the CAP... it will work for a few years and then boom, back to square one.

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11-21-2007, 05:57 AM
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Kevin Lowe started with the offer sheet business and now teams are spooked.The group II's are getting group III money.Some group III's are not receiving the offers they expected to receive.Throw in Semin's contract-2 years/$8.4 million.The player had one good season

Darcy Tucker is making $3 million per.That is Avery's market

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11-21-2007, 06:47 AM
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Isn't the cap tied to league revnue?

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11-21-2007, 07:36 AM
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Personally, I think the NHL salary structure has been out of whack for many years now. It used to be that only the best players got mulitple millions. Now everyone does.

I feel this destructive process is part of the reason the NHL has so many problems. I am fully cognizant of the fact that this team, the Rangers, is a huge part of that problem with the wild overpaying of players in years past, but even with the salary cap now, things are totally out of hand.

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11-21-2007, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue425 View Post
Isn't the cap tied to league revnue?
yes. what we're seeing here is not an overall rise in salaries, but a redistribution. the cap cannot go up without an increase in revenues. after everyone is done locking up their rfas to these large contracts, there will be less money out there for ufas, and there salaries will come down.

this assumes league revenues don't rise at the same rate taht salaries do. if revenues do rise that quickly, then the cap will go up and these rfa contracts are all right where they should be relative to team revenue.

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11-21-2007, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Kevin Lowe started with the offer sheet business and now teams are spooked.The group II's are getting group III money.Some group III's are not receiving the offers they expected to receive.Throw in Semin's contract-2 years/$8.4 million.The player had one good season

Darcy Tucker is making $3 million per.That is Avery's market
i agre Avery should be comparable to Tucker in terms of $ but he'll look to Fisher as a comparable and i fear we'll need to give him 3.5m+ to lock him up... with Henrik's raise as well as others due and other spots tof ill we may not have this cash to give him.

Kevin Lowe has alot to answer for. Vanek was and never will be worth 7m and Penner and his 10 points are looking great for 4.25 right now...

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11-21-2007, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRJurgen88 View Post
Is it me or are many GM's completely overpaying to lock up their kids?

Getzlaf, while a great player isnt a 5m player yet...?
Getzlaf at 5 is a steal next to what Sather payed for Gomez and Drury. If you want to criticize a GM for overpaying, look no further than 2 Penn.

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11-21-2007, 09:27 AM
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Getzlaf at 5 is a steal next to what Sather payed for Gomez and Drury. If you want to criticize a GM for overpaying, look no further than 2 Penn.
but thats different situations. getzlaf would get more too had he gone to open market.

And to be fair, Gomez does have 400 (ish) more points than Getzlaf and 1 more cup.

Drury has constantly proved to be clutch and this slump is rare if you look at his career - is he 7m? no - but, again, the UFA market dictates those prices....

I think getzlaf is great too but his body of work at this point doesnt deserve 5.2m.

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11-21-2007, 09:30 AM
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Getzlaf at 5 is a steal next to what Sather payed for Gomez and Drury. If you want to criticize a GM for overpaying, look no further than 2 Penn.
If you consider the current trend it's a good move, because if this continues no young top-2 centers (like Gomez) will become available via free-agency.

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11-21-2007, 09:37 AM
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Yeah, the Drury and Gomez signings could potentially kill us.

I wouldn't care if by the end of the season they are playing as well as they were with their respective teams though. They will still be massively overpaid, but these are the type of guys that can really help win a cup. Of course the pieces around them have to come together too

I do think once Jagr and Shanny leaves things will get a little smoother. There are just too many leader types right now. Probably lots of conflict of interest

I think that Getzlaf will definitely be a 5 million dollar player soon. He has sure has the skill to be, and we've all seen what he's done in the playoffs

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11-21-2007, 09:40 AM
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Seems to me...

that mediocre players are getting high salaries, good players are getting exobitant salaries and great players are being fairly paid since there's a cap on what on can pay. Seems that the water down league is producing enough Crosbys and Ovechkins and guys like Drury and Gomez are high in demand and commanding high salaries. You can get a decent forward for under $5.5MM per season anymore; third pair veteran defenseman cost a couple mil $$. At least there's a cap - and teams will overpay for those guys and sprinkly around a bunch of kids and AHL guys to stay under the cap.

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11-21-2007, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by NYRJurgen88 View Post
but thats different situations. getzlaf would get more too had he gone to open market.
That is precisely why Getzlaf was a great signing for Anaheim at that price. You want to lock up your young stars before they hit the open market. We didn't have any young stars to lock up besides Lundqvist so we were forced to pay top dollar for 2 very good, but not great players.

The original poster's contention was that Getzlaf was overpaid and was bemoaning other GMs behavior. Locking up your own when they are approaching their peak is as sound a decision as a GM can possibly make. Spares you from having to spend 7 million on a player like Drury.

To me, Drury is a great clutch player but he is not a star. He is a complementary player, not a centerpiece. Getzlaf is a centerpiece a la Jagr.

By the way, Michalek may turn out better than Drury and Gomez too, but it's too early to make that call.

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11-21-2007, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
That is precisely why Getzlaf was a great signing for Anaheim at that price. You want to lock up your young stars before they hit the open market. We didn't have any young stars to lock up besides Lundqvist so we were forced to pay top dollar for 2 very good, but not great players.

The original poster's contention was that Getzlaf was overpaid and was bemoaning other GMs behavior. Locking up your own when they are approaching their peak is as sound a decision as a GM can possibly make. Spares you from having to spend 7 million on a player like Drury.

To me, Drury is a great clutch player but he is not a star. He is a complementary player, not a centerpiece. Getzlaf is a centerpiece a la Jagr.

By the way, Michalek may turn out better than Drury and Gomez too, but it's too early to make that call.
Agreed, you had to do it for Gomez because players like him just won't be available at 27. Especially considering how thin the Rangers were at center. Drury is another story though.

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11-21-2007, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRJurgen88 View Post
Is it me or are many GM's completely overpaying to lock up their kids?

Getzlaf, while a great player isnt a 5m player yet...

Dustin Brown is a great kid, but certainly isnt a 4m/6yr player yet....

Milan Michalek is a great player but isnt a 4m/6yr player yet....

these are just a few and it concerns me that these prices will drive up the whole league and force everyone to over pay again. What was the point of the cap????

I think (again) Kevin Lowe hasn't helped by giving Hemsky 4m/6yrs last year...

On a similar note - with Mike Fisher getting 4m as of next year and with Avery doing well this year now's he back, i thgink he'll be looking for 3m+ and im not sure we'll have it to give him....

thoughts????
Well yeah ofcourse teams want to lock up there youth and as for kevin Lowe helping will i dont think him signing Hemsky has anything to do with it. From now teams will be locking up youth after Lowe went after Penner like he did with an offer sheet. We will be seeing alot of over payment of youth.

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11-21-2007, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Jay88 View Post
Well yeah ofcourse teams want to lock up there youth and as for kevin Lowe helping will i dont think him signing Hemsky has anything to do with it. From now teams will be locking up youth after Lowe went after Penner like he did with an offer sheet. We will be seeing alot of over payment of youth.
i appreciate teams want to lock up their talented youth i am just worried about the overpayment that its taking to do so.

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11-21-2007, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
That is precisely why Getzlaf was a great signing for Anaheim at that price. You want to lock up your young stars before they hit the open market. We didn't have any young stars to lock up besides Lundqvist so we were forced to pay top dollar for 2 very good, but not great players.

The original poster's contention was that Getzlaf was overpaid and was bemoaning other GMs behavior. Locking up your own when they are approaching their peak is as sound a decision as a GM can possibly make. Spares you from having to spend 7 million on a player like Drury.

To me, Drury is a great clutch player but he is not a star. He is a complementary player, not a centerpiece. Getzlaf is a centerpiece a la Jagr.

By the way, Michalek may turn out better than Drury and Gomez too, but it's too early to make that call.

i dont think you can call Getzlaf a centre peice. he's a complimentary piece on his own team - he plays second fiddle to all of Pronger, Gigeure and when they were there - Niedermayer and Selanne...

and i was the original poster.

Michalek while a great player will not be a better player than either of Gomez or Drury, he'll need a few rings and more than a 63pt season before he can have such lofty comparisons...

but calling Drury a complementary piece is spot on. He's not the star but the perfect compliment to one.

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11-21-2007, 10:19 AM
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Getzlaf was only in his 2nd season last year and has huge talent. He is showing his value this year, without Niedermayer and Selanne. And since when does it make you less of a player when you're not as good as those guys, in your 2nd year. 2 Norris trophy contenders and a Rocket Richard contender...it's tough to compete with that. Getlzaf was also probably the best offensive player in the Cup finals.

Michalek is another guy with huge talent. It was his 2nd full NHL season too. Sure there is some risk involved, but it's counterbalanced by the risk of losing a player to an offersheet, having to match an overpriced offersheet (see Vanek), or eventually losing a player to free agency. I think there's a very good chance that Michalek becomes as good as Gomez, they have similar 2nd year numbers. Perhaps Michalek won't, but he's also not grossly overpaid now, and he could be underpaid in the future.

And if Avery can get 3m, then you have to make a decision that he's that valuable or not. Every team has to make those decisions on their impending FA's. I don't see what the problem is. In the salary cap world, even top market teams will lose players they want to keep, or have to fill the bottom line spots with cheaper players. The Rangers have a lot more flexibility than most teams because they have produced quality young players that are cost controlled for the next few years.


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11-21-2007, 10:25 AM
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I think the Getzlaf signing is actually a great one for Anaheim. He's arguably their best player right now (well I suppose behind Perry this season), and in a year or two we'll be talking about how much of a steal that 5.2 cap hit is.

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11-21-2007, 10:29 AM
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Sure there is some risk involved, but it's counterbalanced by the risk of losing a player to an offersheet, having to match an overpriced offersheet (see Vanek), or eventually losing a player to free agency.
This is a great point - look at what happened to Thomas Vanek. Sure the Getzlaf and Michalek signings might seem like gambles now, but if you see one of your high potential players emerging into a bonafide star it's better to get them locked up now while YOU have control over the terms than to have to match an offer sheet thrown out by a competing GM.

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11-21-2007, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by NYRJurgen88 View Post
i dont think you can call Getzlaf a centre peice. he's a complimentary piece on his own team - he plays second fiddle to all of Pronger, Gigeure and when they were there - Niedermayer and Selanne...
Getzlaf is already their best forward by far and only Pronger can be considered in the same league as him on that team and Getzlaf is about 10 years younger than Pronger.

Getzlaf, right now, is better than any of our forwards and he is going to get better. I think you are greatly underestimating just how good he is.

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11-21-2007, 10:51 AM
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Getzlaf is already their best forward by far and only Pronger can be considered in the same league as him on that team and Getzlaf is about 10 years younger than Pronger.

Getzlaf, right now, is better than any of our forwards and he is going to get better. I think you are greatly underestimating just how good he is.
im not. i have him in 3 fantsay leagues for starters!!!!

I do appreciate it and i know that future potential is alot to do with salary negotiations, as is youth etc but surely what you have done is a big part too and to date, he's got a short career...

i love the guy, his upside is high but then so is Corey Perry's whose been great this year and all of sudden what do you pay him, does a Kevin Lowe come and snap him away???

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11-21-2007, 10:52 AM
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Agreed that Getzlaf is a GREAT signing. Michalek is worth the money too, you naysayers must not watch them much or understand why its important to wrap those guys up now.

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11-21-2007, 10:56 AM
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the threat of an offer sheet makes locking these guys up long term a smart move...and the ducks are overpaying a bit for getzlaf right now but in addition to insuring that no one can steal him they are also banking on the fact that his contract will become a bargain when he's 26-27 in his prime and comparable players are making $8 mil

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11-21-2007, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Agreed that Getzlaf is a GREAT signing. Michalek is worth the money too, you naysayers must not watch them much or understand why its important to wrap those guys up now.
you dont appreciate what im saying. Getzlaf is grat. Michalek (last season) was great and has a great future but these gusy right now have been overpaid and these deals are driving up prices for other players, even inferior players will tryand cream off deals like these.

Getzlaf is a very wise investment i agree... but surely he could have been had shoter term for less money allowing Burke to re-up Perry to a decent deal too?

GM's are hadncuffing themselves by giving alot out early on.

I just hope we dont do the same thing.

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