HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Notices

Flyers agree that at this point in season improvement needed

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-21-2007, 07:13 PM
  #51
CantSeeColors
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Country: Seychelles
Posts: 5,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gagne22 View Post
edit- Id also like to add that previously its been discussed that the team is getting along with each other off the ice...what hes talking about is us developing chemistry on the ice, and not just some of them, a pair, a line...but the whole team; as well as the mentality that we are the Flyers, not the Flyers +new acquisitions.
This is my guess as to what it is. Biron seems like a guy everyone would be friends with. Lupul goes to parties with Richards and Eager (there's pictures on facebook), Upshall and some guys go way back, a bunch of them played with each other in the WJCs, etc. I really think he's just talking about finding a team identity on the ice.

CantSeeColors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2007, 08:21 PM
  #52
Tags27
Registered User
 
Tags27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Flyers bandwagon
Country: United States
Posts: 131
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
I'm sorry, he basically said that some guys don't view themselves as Flyers yet which is a harsh thing to say about some of the guys on these roster especially Smith (I don't like his style and he makes too many mistakes, but he played when his face was cut up) and Lupul (who has worked very hard).

Knuble needs to get his head down and work on his own play because a lot of us were counting on him for 25-30 goals and he just hasn't delivered.
6 goals in 20 games = 24 in 82 games.

I think we can be pretty sure he wasn't talking about Smith and Lupul. It's likely his remarks were aimed towards Hartnell and Timonen.

Tags27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2007, 08:49 PM
  #53
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 109,450
vCash: 5700
Who cares what Knuble meant, apparently the team got the message.

GKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2007, 08:49 PM
  #54
Ex Storm
Dig out your soul...
 
Ex Storm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief_Tags View Post
6 goals in 20 games = 24 in 82 games.

I think we can be pretty sure he wasn't talking about Smith and Lupul. It's likely his remarks were aimed towards Hartnell and Timonen.
Timonen's been just fine?

Ex Storm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2007, 09:22 PM
  #55
JXC
#LaviPondHockeyFail
 
JXC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 13,889
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kz View Post
You know how the media is in basically every facet of life. Taking things at face value from the media is probably a poor choice. We have no clue the context in which this quote arrived from, what else he had said surrounding this quote we are reading... even small things can change how that quote is perceived immensely
I agree with this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Knuble is the whipping boy because his production and effectiveness has dropped off. He's making more mistakes. He's one of the guys night in and night out that sucks.
Not buying it. Some people NEED someone to lump up. Knuble is the flavor du jour. The reason why is not clear. If anyone deserves the harangue, it's Hartnell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winston Wolf View Post
Briere: "You guys suck."

Knuble: "No, no. We suck."


Quote:
Originally Posted by CantSeeColors View Post
Lupul goes to parties with Richards and Eager .
Ahhh, the high life.

JXC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2007, 09:25 PM
  #56
Ex Storm
Dig out your soul...
 
Ex Storm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JXC View Post
Not buying it. Some people NEED someone to lump up. Knuble is the flavor du jour. The reason why is not clear. If anyone deserves the harangue, it's Hartnell.
What do you mean it's not clear? He's played like ****, almost anyone can see that. He produced tonight, which was great, even though he still ****ed up more than he scored.

Some people need someone to rag on, I don't. I rag on those that deserve it. I would absolutely LOVE it if everyone wearing our uniform played at the highest level every night and I could just sit down in peace and enjoy it.

Ex Storm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2007, 11:02 PM
  #57
Tags27
Registered User
 
Tags27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Flyers bandwagon
Country: United States
Posts: 131
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm in a Teacup View Post
What do you mean it's not clear? He's played like ****, almost anyone can see that. He produced tonight, which was great, even though he still ****ed up more than he scored.

Some people need someone to rag on, I don't. I rag on those that deserve it. I would absolutely LOVE it if everyone wearing our uniform played at the highest level every night and I could just sit down in peace and enjoy it.
I still don't see what Knuble's production has to do with his comments.

The comments "He should worry about himself" is ******** IMO. He's worried about his TEAM, so as a guy who's been here for a few years he said something.

Knuble knows what he needs to do, he knows where he's ****ing up. None of that has anything to do with what he said.

Tags27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-21-2007, 11:46 PM
  #58
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief_Tags View Post
I still don't see what Knuble's production has to do with his comments.

The comments "He should worry about himself" is ******** IMO. He's worried about his TEAM, so as a guy who's been here for a few years he said something.

Knuble knows what he needs to do, he knows where he's ****ing up. None of that has anything to do with what he said.
If you're going to call other people out, then you better damn well be getting it done yourself... or at the very least DIRECTLY include yourself in the issue, which he did not.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2007, 12:37 AM
  #59
Roger's Pancreas*
 
Roger's Pancreas*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 13,363
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Roger's Pancreas*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
of course that's the implication of what he's saying. however, he's directing his criticism at a specific group of players.
Was he wrong in any of his analysis? Up until last week, Timonen wasn't on the same page as any of the other forwards. Gators has been downright terrible for some games. Upshall's Upshall. Lupul has been extraordinary. Kukkonen has been solid. Briere's been producing. Hartnell has been...unlucky. But it's fair to say that this group hasn't played like they're capable of playing. They haven't looked like a cohesive group, yet, and part of that (as the critics have said) has to do with the team being so dramatically altered.
Quote:
(1) he's specifically isolating the group of new guys that weren't with this team previously... as they've "joined" the team.

(2) you see him making a classic "others" statement... in his opinion, the new guys haven't bought into what they're doing and they need to now. it's an us (people who have been with the team), and the "others" the guys that weren't with the team prior to now.

any way you want to parse that statement it implies a division within the room... and he's the only person to talk about it. given the fact that everyone seems to think that the feeling with this club is great, it's striking that a guy who is NOTICEABLY struggling game in and game out is calling out the new guys on the club in such a direct way.
You're overcomplicating what he said. What he said boils down to what the critics have been saying since day one: there's a lot of new faces in the locker room. It certainly appears that the chemistry isn't where it could be, so I don't get where he's "singling" out anyone. He's saying that, on the ice, they could be tighter. Off the ice, they might be tight as hell, but the on ice performance speaks for itself.

Roger's Pancreas* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2007, 02:51 AM
  #60
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger's Pancreas View Post
Was he wrong in any of his analysis? Up until last week, Timonen wasn't on the same page as any of the other forwards. Gators has been downright terrible for some games. Upshall's Upshall. Lupul has been extraordinary. Kukkonen has been solid. Briere's been producing. Hartnell has been...unlucky. But it's fair to say that this group hasn't played like they're capable of playing. They haven't looked like a cohesive group, yet, and part of that (as the critics have said) has to do with the team being so dramatically altered.

You're overcomplicating what he said. What he said boils down to what the critics have been saying since day one: there's a lot of new faces in the locker room. It certainly appears that the chemistry isn't where it could be, so I don't get where he's "singling" out anyone. He's saying that, on the ice, they could be tighter. Off the ice, they might be tight as hell, but the on ice performance speaks for itself.
i'm not saying he's necessarily wrong... i'm pointing out WHAT he said... not the accuracy or inaccuracy of what he said. he very clearly designated new members to the club as the ones who weren't thinking of the team as "we" and hadn't "bought in" to what was going on... that may very well be true.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2007, 05:45 AM
  #61
BobbyClarkeFan16
Registered User
 
BobbyClarkeFan16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: London Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,870
vCash: 500
Knuble does need to keep his mouth shut. For a guy who's done nothing his entire career but leech off guys like Thornton and Forsberg, he's in no position to state who is or who isn't onboard with the team yet. It's also nice to see how he fails to neglect that his own play has been a part of the problem.

Fact is, the team is doing something that it didn't do well at all last year. They're winning. It might not be pretty some games, but a win is a win, no matter how ugly it might be.

BobbyClarkeFan16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2007, 07:49 AM
  #62
LePalle
Registered User
 
LePalle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 1,837
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Knuble does need to keep his mouth shut. For a guy who's done nothing his entire career but leech off guys like Thornton and Forsberg, he's in no position to state who is or who isn't onboard with the team yet. It's also nice to see how he fails to neglect that his own play has been a part of the problem.

Fact is, the team is doing something that it didn't do well at all last year. They're winning. It might not be pretty some games, but a win is a win, no matter how ugly it might be.
Again, he did include himself, because HE is a part of the WE. And as a part of the WE, he should feel encouraged to make a statement to try to get the team clicking...

And what does it matter if we're doing better than last year? Are we supposed to be satisfied with mediocre? With being a 1st round knockout in the playoffs? Because Im not, Knuble's not, and if anyone on the team is then they should get the f outta Philly.

LePalle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2007, 09:32 AM
  #63
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gagne22 View Post
Again, he did include himself, because HE is a part of the WE. And as a part of the WE, he should feel encouraged to make a statement to try to get the team clicking...

And what does it matter if we're doing better than last year? Are we supposed to be satisfied with mediocre? With being a 1st round knockout in the playoffs? Because Im not, Knuble's not, and if anyone on the team is then they should get the f outta Philly.
no, he didn't include himself.

the new guys aren't thinking "we". he isn't a new guy, he's already thinking "we" with regard to the Flyers.

he then used the "these guys" designation to even further separate himself from being included in the conversation.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2007, 12:44 PM
  #64
Roger's Pancreas*
 
Roger's Pancreas*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 13,363
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Roger's Pancreas*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
no, he didn't include himself.

the new guys aren't thinking "we". he isn't a new guy, he's already thinking "we" with regard to the Flyers.

he then used the "these guys" designation to even further separate himself from being included in the conversation.
I'm sure he put this much thought into what he was saying once the microphone was put in front of his mouth.

Roger's Pancreas* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2007, 01:02 PM
  #65
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger's Pancreas View Post
I'm sure he put this much thought into what he was saying once the microphone was put in front of his mouth.
not saying he did... but that's what he said. seeking to interpret the unsaid isn't exactly an easy thing to do.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2007, 01:07 PM
  #66
LePalle
Registered User
 
LePalle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 1,837
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
not saying he did... but that's what he said. seeking to interpret the unsaid isn't exactly an easy thing to do.
Yet you still seem to be ruling out the possibility that he wasnt trying to call out his teammates...

And yes, he did include himself...if he wasnt including himself he wouldnt say we. Allow me to demonstrate- If I say we need to back off Knuble, who am I talking about? Every Flyers fan, including myself. Ive called Knuble slow hands and cursed at him through the TV plenty, but I think we need to back off, and I am no exception to that.

LePalle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2007, 01:18 PM
  #67
Roger's Pancreas*
 
Roger's Pancreas*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 13,363
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Roger's Pancreas*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
not saying he did... but that's what he said. seeking to interpret the unsaid isn't exactly an easy thing to do.
At the same time, taking what anyone says verbatim is a pretty silly thing to do, especially in a hockey hotbed like Philadelphia where overreacting is the typical reaction.

Roger's Pancreas* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2007, 01:33 PM
  #68
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gagne22 View Post
Yet you still seem to be ruling out the possibility that he wasnt trying to call out his teammates...

And yes, he did include himself...if he wasnt including himself he wouldnt say we. Allow me to demonstrate- If I say we need to back off Knuble, who am I talking about? Every Flyers fan, including myself. Ive called Knuble slow hands and cursed at him through the TV plenty, but I think we need to back off, and I am no exception to that.
Quote:
"When you join a new team you're thinking about your old team," Knuble said.

"Philly is still not "we,' it's "them.' We've got to get these guys to the we.' It's been 2 1/2 months. Now is the time to buy in."
1) Knuble did not just join the team.

2) Knuble implicates the "we," as in the guys that HAVE been here, and the "these (them)," as the guys who were not here.

Knuble is including himself as a group of guys who have already bought in and have their head right... the guys that were here previously. So, as for the negative side of that commentary... he's not including himself AT ALL.

now, he may not have meant it to sound like that... but if you understand the english language that he was facilitating... he's not including himself. it's a classic "us" and "them" series of statements... same thing you see with the development of national identity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger's Pancreas View Post
At the same time, taking what anyone says verbatim is a pretty silly thing to do, especially in a hockey hotbed like Philadelphia where overreacting is the typical reaction.
it's about all you can do with quotes, is it not? i mean, we could break out some tarot cards and go to town... maybe a ouija board? i got nothing other than what is said to go on... is it out of character for Knuble? absolutely. nor do i think taking what he said at face value really falls into the category of "overreacting." he said what he said and we'll see how it plays out...

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2007, 01:48 PM
  #69
LePalle
Registered User
 
LePalle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 1,837
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
1) Knuble did not just join the team.

2) Knuble implicates the "we," as in the guys that HAVE been here, and the "these (them)," as the guys who were not here.

Knuble is including himself as a group of guys who have already bought in and have their head right... the guys that were here previously. So, as for the negative side of that commentary... he's not including himself AT ALL.
But when he says we, hes saying everyone, old and new, not just old. old:new isnt us vs. them, its us (as in the whole team) getting rid of the them (the Flyers+acquisition feel of the team) and making it the Philadelphia Flyers, one single team.

we (the Philadelphia Flyers) have got to get these guys (the people who are in the wrong mindset) to the we (the Philadelphia Flyers). So basically We need to become a team, instead of the Philadelphia Flyers+acquisitions.

Now is the time to buy in. (as in, everyone needs to buy in to being a team, not team+acquisitions)

LePalle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2007, 01:54 PM
  #70
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gagne22 View Post
But when he says we, hes saying everyone, old and new, not just old. old:new isnt us vs. them, its us (as in the whole team) getting rid of the them (the Flyers+acquisition feel of the team) and making it the Philadelphia Flyers, one single team.

we (the Philadelphia Flyers) have got to get these guys (the people who are in the wrong mindset) to the we (the Philadelphia Flyers). So basically We need to become a team, instead of the Philadelphia Flyers+acquisitions.

Now is the time to buy in. (as in, everyone needs to buy in to being a team, not team+acquisitions)
no, when he says "we" he's saying the guys who have been with the team... thus why he DIRECTLY follows it with "these guys" who he has designated in the first sentence.

if he was including himself in the "these guys" then he wouldn't be designating the "these." he'd simply say, "we've got to get ourselves on the same page" or whatever... you wouldn't need the second pronoun. he has two pronouns which are referring to different entities.

whatever... we're clearly not going to agree... but i'm telling you this is pretty straightforward sentence parsing i'm doing here.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2007, 05:55 PM
  #71
BobbyClarkeFan16
Registered User
 
BobbyClarkeFan16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: London Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,870
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gagne22
And what does it matter if we're doing better than last year?
It does matter because last year, this team was terrible. There was in fighting in the locker room, the world's supposedly greatest coach in the universe was fired as a result and an icon in the city of Philadelphia stepped down. Yes, this year matters a lot because the organization has decided to retool and to keep some of the players who were a part of the infighting last year. If it blows up, players will be shipped out, people will be fired, and free agents might be hesitant to come here in the future if there's still a mess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gagne22
Are we supposed to be satisfied with mediocre?
If mediocre means being playoff bound when many pundits did not even have the Flyers making the playoffs, then I'll live with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gagne22
With being a 1st round knockout in the playoffs?
No worse than some of the veteran laden Flyers teams have done in the past. This was an organization that before last season, the 8 previous playoffs, they were eliminated in the first round 5 times. Tell you what, give me a bunch of youngsters who are genuinely excited to be in the playoffs and let them run with it. At least if they do get beat in the first round, it won't be because of effort, unlike some of the veteran heavy teams that were eliminated in the first round previous times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gagne22
Because Im not, Knuble's not, and if anyone on the team is then they should get the f outta Philly.
Great. Let the fair weather fans walk. I've been a fan of the Flyers for almost 30 years now. I, like other long term fans, have seen a lot of crap come and go through this organization. The fact that this is one of the closest locker rooms that this team has is definitely a breath of fresh air. For the first time in a long time, the Flyers aren't going to be known as Team Turmoil. For Knuble to stir the pot the way he did was inexcusable. Yes, everyone knows the team still needs to shape on certain matters, but calling out your team mates in the media is not leadership. That's cowardice. You have something to say to your teammates, you say it on the ice at practice or in the locker room, not when a camera and microphone is stuck in your face. It's instances like that that come back and bite people on the a$$

BobbyClarkeFan16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:41 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.