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Longtime captain/face of the franchise losing captaincy but staying with the team?

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Old
11-23-2007, 12:11 PM
  #1
seventieslord
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Longtime captain/face of the franchise losing captaincy but staying with the team?

The situation last season where Mike Modano relinquished his captaincy to Brenden Morrow was an interesting and unique one. Here's a guy who was the captain for a few years, the team's elder statesman, face of the franchise, and all-time leader in all categories, losing his captaincy to "the new guy" - generally you see a player like Modano lose his captiancy when and only when he actually leaves the team via a trade or retirement. Have there been any other cases of a player like Modano losing the captaincy to another player while remaining with the team?

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Old
11-23-2007, 12:22 PM
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Bear of Bad News
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Darryl Sittler. The underlying details were different, of course.

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Old
11-23-2007, 12:29 PM
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Risiko
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4 Words:

Trevor Linden - Mark Messier

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Old
11-23-2007, 01:12 PM
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Garbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor No View Post
Darryl Sittler. The underlying details were different, of course.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Risiko View Post
4 Words:

Trevor Linden - Mark Messier
I know the gist of each situation, but can anyone give me the full story for each?

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Old
11-23-2007, 08:18 PM
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JWINK19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
The situation last season where Mike Modano relinquished his captaincy to Brenden Morrow was an interesting and unique one. Here's a guy who was the captain for a few years, the team's elder statesman, face of the franchise, and all-time leader in all categories, losing his captaincy to "the new guy" - generally you see a player like Modano lose his captiancy when and only when he actually leaves the team via a trade or retirement. Have there been any other cases of a player like Modano losing the captaincy to another player while remaining with the team?

Did he relinquish the C or was he stripped of it? Two different things. I grew up on LI and saw it happen several times. Ed Westfall turned it over to Clark Gillies when he was deemed ready for it, Gillies gave it up to Denis Potvin because the pressure was too much, and Potvin gave it up for his last season so that the transition to the next captain (turned out to be Brent Sutter) would be smooth.

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Old
11-23-2007, 09:32 PM
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ck26
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Just for the record, Brenden Morrow wasn't "the new guy." Morrow was a full-time player in 2000, when we lost in the finals to New Jersey. When Morrow became captain -- a move needed to help bridge the gap between the old hats and new -- only Modano, Zubov and Lehtinen (and Sydor kinda) were more tenured.

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Old
11-23-2007, 10:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Risiko View Post
4 Words:

Trevor Linden - Mark Messier

Linden was the captain. Keenan came in once Messier showed up. Linden "gave up" the C supposedly.Linden was traded to the Islanders.That year, Messier was left off the Olympic team while Linden was the last choice and scored the only Team Canada goal versus Hasek and the Czechs. Messier proceeded to be the captain of 3 pathetic years over-seeing the Canucks. Vancouver never made the playoffs in any of those years. The Canucks reaquired Trevor and have been a mainstay in the playoffs ever since. That's pretty much it!

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Old
11-23-2007, 11:03 PM
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LA-Dave Taylor admirably relinquished captaincy to Wayne Gretzky.

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Old
11-24-2007, 08:02 AM
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Big Phil
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Being a captain is more about the best player on the team getting it. Lecavalier had it in 2000 and because of his fighting with Tortorella he was stripped of it. He's still there and many would suggest after Crosby he's the best player in the NHL (even better if he keeps this up all year).

For example, when Phil Esposito was traded to NYR he was immediately given the captaincy. Even Espo didnt agree with that. I dont believe a player coming to a new team should automatically be given a cpataincy just because. Rod Gilbert had been in NY for years and didnt get the captaincy and he should have.

It's an honour to give it up to guys like Messier and Gretzky but I've just always felt that they should play there first for a bit and get a feel for the team. Midway through the first season is a good time to hand over the captaincy to them IMO

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Old
11-24-2007, 11:07 AM
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Garbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWINK19 View Post
Did he relinquish the C or was he stripped of it? Two different things. I grew up on LI and saw it happen several times. Ed Westfall turned it over to Clark Gillies when he was deemed ready for it, Gillies gave it up to Denis Potvin because the pressure was too much, and Potvin gave it up for his last season so that the transition to the next captain (turned out to be Brent Sutter) would be smooth.
He was approached by management and asked to give it up.

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Old
11-24-2007, 11:53 AM
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JWINK19
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He was approached by management and asked to give it up.
Which he are we talking about?

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Old
11-24-2007, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ofuzz View Post
Linden was the captain. Keenan came in once Messier showed up. Linden "gave up" the C supposedly.Linden was traded to the Islanders.That year, Messier was left off the Olympic team while Linden was the last choice and scored the only Team Canada goal versus Hasek and the Czechs. Messier proceeded to be the captain of 3 pathetic years over-seeing the Canucks. Vancouver never made the playoffs in any of those years. The Canucks reaquired Trevor and have been a mainstay in the playoffs ever since. That's pretty much it!
And what a joke it was that Linden was on that team over Messier.

Messier was injured often and they traded away anything useful, before rebuilding in his last year there. Canuck fans are way too hard on the guy.

You make it seem like Linden made some triumphant return....leading the team to many 1st round embarrassments...

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Old
11-25-2007, 12:45 AM
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^^During the Messier years, Vancouver acquired/developed/drafted some pretty good players that were a part or still is a part of the team. That foreshadowed of what happened off the ice with the whole Messier screwed up the Canucks scenario.

they pretty much developed some good players like Bertuzzi, Aucoin, McCabe, Ohlund, Naslund, Henrik Sedin, Daniel Sedin, Jovanovski, Scatchard, Morrison..

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Old
11-29-2007, 12:43 AM
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This isn't the same case but Dennis Savard in the late 80s was the Hawk captain briefly. Mike Keenan and Savard had a very public feud which ultimately ended with Keenan stripping Savard of the captaincy. Dirk Graham would eventually take the "C" after the Hawks acquired him from Minnesota for Curt Fraser. Savard stayed with the team (although not very long) as Keenan would deal him to Montreal in the offseason before the 90-91 season for Chris Chelios (who later succeeded Graham as Hawk captain when Graham retired).

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Old
11-29-2007, 05:00 AM
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Sonny Lamateena
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Risiko View Post
4 Words:

Trevor Linden - Mark Messier
Trevor Linden is quoted in an interview with Gary Mason of the Vancouver Sun saying, "It was just something I had to do. If I remained the captain, bringing in a player with his history and leadership qualities, if things did go wrong I was going to be second-guessed the whole time. So my only option was to say to, 'Mark, listen, I think this is the way it should be,' and Mark accepted it, so we moved on."

My personal interpretation of that is Linden was afraid of being blamed for the teams failures. So basically he was looking out for himself, not exactly great leadership but in hindsight a very smart move for Captain Canuck.

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Old
11-29-2007, 06:40 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny Lamateena View Post
Trevor Linden is quoted in an interview with Gary Mason of the Vancouver Sun saying, "It was just something I had to do. If I remained the captain, bringing in a player with his history and leadership qualities, if things did go wrong I was going to be second-guessed the whole time. So my only option was to say to, 'Mark, listen, I think this is the way it should be,' and Mark accepted it, so we moved on."

My personal interpretation of that is Linden was afraid of being blamed for the teams failures. So basically he was looking out for himself, not exactly great leadership but in hindsight a very smart move for Captain Canuck.
Any chance there's a digital copy of this interview? I wouldn't mind reading it.

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Old
11-29-2007, 06:59 AM
  #17
Sonny Lamateena
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It's from the book "Messier" by Jeff Z Klein, you can probably get it from a library. Possibly you could contact Gary Mason who I think now works for The Globe and Mail or Klein who I think is with the New York Times.

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Old
11-29-2007, 10:59 PM
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Kinda OT, but in 05/06 Dave Andreychuk, captain of the defending Stanley Cup Champion Tampa Bay Lightning, was placed on waivers after putting up 18 points in 42 games.


It was the first I had ever heard of a team putting their captain on waviers...

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Old
11-29-2007, 11:52 PM
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Gordie Howe was the Captain of the Wings for a few years.... then was stripped of the Captaincy and it was given to Delvecchio I think. Howe was never again the Detroit Captain I think but he had maybe a dozen or 15 years of Wings success after being stripped.

I am sure someone here knows more of the exact story... I likely read about it years, and years ago and the details I forget.

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Old
11-30-2007, 03:23 AM
  #20
Fish on The Sand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny Lamateena View Post
Trevor Linden is quoted in an interview with Gary Mason of the Vancouver Sun saying, "It was just something I had to do. If I remained the captain, bringing in a player with his history and leadership qualities, if things did go wrong I was going to be second-guessed the whole time. So my only option was to say to, 'Mark, listen, I think this is the way it should be,' and Mark accepted it, so we moved on."

My personal interpretation of that is Linden was afraid of being blamed for the teams failures. So basically he was looking out for himself, not exactly great leadership but in hindsight a very smart move for Captain Canuck.
My interpretation of that interview is Linden just felt Messier was more capable of dealing with it. I hate Linden more than anyone, but selfishness is NOT a trait that Trevor Linden possesses.

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Old
11-30-2007, 03:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cup 2008 Sens Rule View Post
Gordie Howe was the Captain of the Wings for a few years.... then was stripped of the Captaincy and it was given to Delvecchio I think. Howe was never again the Detroit Captain I think but he had maybe a dozen or 15 years of Wings success after being stripped.

I am sure someone here knows more of the exact story... I likely read about it years, and years ago and the details I forget.
I think Adams was just giving all his stars a turn at captain. If I remember correctly. Lindsay & Kelly also had turns at it,

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