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I know people here were down on GMGM for not making a serious offer to Chara.

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Old
11-26-2007, 07:48 AM
  #1
dbui72
 
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I know people here were down on GMGM for not making a serious offer to Chara.

I have to admit I never saw him as a Pronger or Stevens, someone who can hold the defense by himself or make sound judgments..

Kind of glad we did not overpay, GMGM is smart on that front. He is no Lowe that is for sure.

Funny, they have Nylander on this list of overpaid contracts, that I disagree.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/column...vid&id=3119463




1. Zdeno Chara, Boston Bruins

Contract: $7.5 million per season through 2011

The Boston Bruins were hoping Zdeno Chara could do for them what Tom Brady, David Ortiz and Kevin Garnett are doing for their other local pro teams. But Chara has been a disappointment. Last season, he had a hard time being "the man" as the Bruins missed the playoffs. When Boston loses, the 30-year-old defenseman shoulders a lot of the blame, but that's what happens when you make nearly as much money as the other five Bruins defensemen combined.

Chara is on pace for just four goals this season. He had 16 during his last season in Ottawa in 2005-06. Chara hasn't delivered on the Boston power play, either. Despite having one of the league's hardest shots, he has yet to score on the man advantage. Bottom line -- if you're making $7.5 million a season, you need to be a difference maker. Right now, Chara looks more like a No. 2 defenseman, like he was in Ottawa.

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11-26-2007, 08:26 AM
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The minute he signed that contract it was widely agreed that he was overpaid. However, the extent to which he's overpaid is unclear to me. He's still a top pairing defenseman, so he's probably earning around 5 million of his salary.

How many years are left on his contract, 3 or 4?

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11-26-2007, 08:41 AM
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CapitalPunishment
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First of all, it's ESPN.

Second of all, he'd be the #1 guy for about 80%-90% of the teams out there, easily.

So most here bash ESPN for anything and everything they say, and I wuoldnt expect it to be any different for this. So do you actually agree with ESPN?

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11-26-2007, 08:44 AM
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HockeyCritter
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McPhee did make a serious offer for Chara (and that's from the Chara camp).

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11-26-2007, 08:59 AM
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I agree with the list for the most part. I think Chara is overpaid, no doubt he is a excellent #1 defensman in the NHL. But 7.5 million is a huge amount to pay for one defensman who at the moment is not providing much at the offensive end of the ice.

I also agree that Nylander is overpaid, i said that from the moment the Caps signed him. But I do not agree that it is one of the top 10 worst contracts in the NHL. I mean even me who wanted Hartnell 10x more than I wanted Nylander has to admit that contract looks 10x worse than Nylander's right now.

Khabibulin should certainly be on that list as well, and I will also go to my death bed saying Gomez is no way worth 7+ per year (excellent player, but not 7+ per.)

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11-26-2007, 09:01 AM
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When you look at Nylander's contract as an investment in NB as well, it becomes much less of an overpayment. We'll never know how much of a positive influence he's having on Nick, but I suspect it's quite susbstantial.

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11-26-2007, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyCritter View Post
McPhee did make a serious offer for Chara (and that's from the Chara camp).
I will never believe he was willing to go into that price range.

Like I said when it happened. You don't go from willing to pay 7+ for Chara and then instead sign Pothier at 2.5 per when you lose out on him. I don't doubt McPhee made an offer, but I would be shocked if he ever was willing to pay anything near what he actually got.

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11-26-2007, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Biscuit Bullet View Post
When you look at Nylander's contract as an investment in NB as well, it becomes much less of an overpayment. We'll never know how much of a positive influence he's having on Nick, but I suspect it's quite susbstantial.
That is very true, but he is a 3.875 cap hit type player. But if you are going to overpay to get a guy, i guess you should do it to get a guy who will help make others around him better.

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11-26-2007, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
That is very true, but he is a 3.875 cap hit type player. But if you are going to overpay to get a guy, i guess you should do it to get a guy who will help make others around him better.
How many PPG guys are out there that earn so little?

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11-26-2007, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
That is very true, but he is a 3.875 cap hit type player. But if you are going to overpay to get a guy, i guess you should do it to get a guy who will help make others around him better.
Woops, did you mean 4.875? That's Nylander's actually cap hit.

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11-26-2007, 09:49 AM
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Free agents are overpaid. By the nature of it. They are overpaid. Being overpaid, however makes up for guys like Ovechkin that are vastly underpaid because of their TOS. The older player is expensive and the younger player is cheap...relatively speaking.

Chara is overpaid to the extent that he has not brought the offensive numbers to his team that he was expected to. Same can be said of Pothier lower on the scale.

Nylander is overpayed, but not significantly so. I think the charge of changing teams that Amber brings up is also unfair. He was traded around regularly because he had skills but had not realized his potential or found chemistry with a scorer.

That changed in Washington and from then til now he has become a high second tier player. A point per game skating with Jagr and Straka is impressive. A point per game with the misfits and babies that has skated with this season is outstanding.

He also has influence in the locker room for the young guys. He is a stable family man, like Olie Kolzig. He is a fitness fanatic like Peter Bondra used to be. He doesn't care about getting headlines and so is the perfect Washington Cap.

Now if he can just bring that -11 down a little.

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11-26-2007, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
I will never believe he was willing to go into that price range.

Like I said when it happened. You don't go from willing to pay 7+ for Chara and then instead sign Pothier at 2.5 per when you lose out on him. I don't doubt McPhee made an offer, but I would be shocked if he ever was willing to pay anything near what he actually got.
Im not sure what you mean...can you explain the bolded part

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11-26-2007, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
I will never believe he was willing to go into that price range.

Like I said when it happened. You don't go from willing to pay 7+ for Chara and then instead sign Pothier at 2.5 per when you lose out on him. I don't doubt McPhee made an offer, but I would be shocked if he ever was willing to pay anything near what he actually got.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mothra View Post
Im not sure what you mean...can you explain the bolded part

really?

w/o recalling the other d-men who were free agents back then, it seems odd to think makfi would go for a guy who (on the surface) would have been a great addition, a proven commodity. to a guy with only one good season under his belt.

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11-26-2007, 10:15 AM
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GMGM did the right thing not getting Chara at all costs, its too much for Ted and our balance sheet. The Caps and us fans are still chasing after a Scott Stevens FA type and its not going to happen in this $$$ age. We chose to go the route of drafting lots of defenseman and it was dumb to offer what we did for Chara considering our overall plan. But not matching that offer sheet by St Louis was a colossal mistake. I dont care that we got 5 picks and a koalie. Overpaying for FA defenseman is not what we should be doing since we have been drafting them by the bushel for many years now. We needed (too late now) to draft guys that play like the guys we covet instead. Hmmm maybe Schultz + Boxing Lessons = Chara?

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11-26-2007, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Biscuit Bullet View Post
Woops, did you mean 4.875? That's Nylander's actually cap hit.
I know what he is, I was saying what he sould be IMO.

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11-26-2007, 10:31 AM
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Im not sure what you mean...can you explain the bolded part
What I mean is, I don't see how McPhee would be willing to spend 7+ per to get Chara but not be willing to spend to get a top pair defensman after Chara signed with Boston.

There were guys available.Tom Poti was a UFA's then. And I also remember a lot of talk about trades at that time. And it wasn't like McPhee lost out on Chara and then spent days trying to go after other top pair guys, he signed Pothier the day after Chara signed for Boston.

GMGM signed Pothier because that was all the team could afford. I don't doubt they tried to make an offer to Chara in hopes the new CBA would bring the market way down and they could get great value on a great player, but at the end of the day I don't think they were in the ball park of what he actually signed for.

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11-26-2007, 10:40 AM
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really?

w/o recalling the other d-men who were free agents back then, it seems odd to think makfi would go for a guy who (on the surface) would have been a great addition, a proven commodity. to a guy with only one good season under his belt.
it really doesnt seem odd to me.....maybe they thought he (Chara) was the only one worth top pair money and plan B was the GMGM special of getting a player that was somewhat experienced but not going to break the bank...while hoping he could pick up his play with more ice time and responsibility. IM not trying to say im a huge fan of this tactic..sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt

I guess when I hear people saying that its odd they targeted Chara then signed Pothier I wonder what they expected. Should they have just spent that 6-7 on the next best guy?

$2.5 million contracts are not salary cap killers....

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11-26-2007, 10:40 AM
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Couple notes:

1) Brian Pothier was one of the earliest free agency signings of 2006. He was not anyone's plan B. Caps targeted him (like it or not) and they signed him on the very first day of free agency.

2) After Chara, there was no one who fit the mold of top pairing under 30 guy. I don't think Washington was willing to compromise and spend big money on someone who did not fit both of those criteria. Kubina and Jonsson are the only guys who come close to that and Johnsson missed half the prior season with a concussion.

2006 NHL UFA Signings


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11-26-2007, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
Couple notes:

1) Brian Pothier was one of the earliest free agency signings of 2006. He was not anyone's plan B. Caps targeted him (like it or not) and they signed him on the very first day of free agency.
So its impossible to make an offer to Chara, find out your not in the hunt, then sign one of the other guys you targeted all in the same day? Doesnt seem like that much of a stretch to me. It sounds like in your mind the Caps wouldnt have known they were out of the running for Chara until after the Boston press conference. Not sure what you are saying here. Either you dont think they made an offer to Chara or they were planning on bringing both Pothier and Chara in


Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
2) After Chara, there was no one who fit the mold of top pairing under 30 guy. I don't think Washington was willing to compromise and spend big money on someone who did not fit both of those criteria. Kubina and Jonsson are the only guys who come close to that and Johnsson missed half the prior season with a concussion.

2006 NHL UFA Signings
thats kinda how I look at it as well


Last edited by Mothra: 11-26-2007 at 11:17 AM. Reason: tags
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11-26-2007, 11:22 AM
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So its impossible to make an offer to Chara, find out your not in the hunt, then sign one of the other guys you targeted all in the same day? Doesnt seem like that much of a stretch to me. It sounds like in your mind the Caps wouldnt have known they were out of the running for Chara until after the Boston press conference. Not sure what you are saying here. Either you dont think they made an offer to Chara or they were planning on bringing both Pothier and Chara in
My mistake, I forgot that Chara was signed on day 1. I had thought that Pothier was signed while the Caps were still in the hunt for Chara. That may or may not be true.

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11-26-2007, 11:25 AM
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My mistake, I forgot that Chara was signed on day 1. I had thought that Pothier was signed while the Caps were still in the hunt for Chara. That may or may not be true.
im not sure what day it happened on....i guess my point is im sure the Caps knew they were not getting Chara before he actually signed in Boston.....so I dont see how someone can flat out say Pothier wasnt some sort of fallback option

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11-26-2007, 11:35 AM
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Its possible that they may have wanted both, right?

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11-26-2007, 11:40 AM
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i think pothier was, to a degree, a fallback option.

chara was probably 1st choice, but mgmt was keen to the fact landing him would be a huge stretch, so they had a quasi plan b. in this case, pothier.

the team, the D, needed a "chara-esque" player more than anything, but they also needed some kind of offensive production as well. pothier, in their eyes, fit that bill.

makfi might have done cartwheels down f street had they, somehow, landed both.

all IMHO.

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11-26-2007, 11:54 AM
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I'm not sure Pothier was a fall back option for Chara...especially when the general thought of this board at the time was the McPhee never really had any intentions of signing of Chara and the low ball offer was just to appease the fan base by saying "hey we tried"...I don't believe Chara was every really in the plans, not to mention I don't think the caps would've sunk $10 million into two dmen

Pots was one the very first UFAs signed if I recall correctly...but I could be wrong

I think McPhee gambled on Pots flourishing with an increased role after showing some promise stepping up for the Sens when they had that rash of injuries to their blueline...hasn't worked out so well but I think Pots is a solid 4-6 pairing

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11-26-2007, 12:00 PM
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I'm not sure Pothier was a fall back option for Chara...especially when the general thought of this board at the time was the McPhee never really had any intentions of signing of Chara and the low ball offer was just to appease the fan base by saying "hey we tried"...I don't believe Chara was every really in the plans, not to mention I don't think the caps would've sunk $10 million into two dmen

Pots was one the very first UFAs signed if I recall correctly...but I could be wrong
I think McPhee gambled on Pots flourishing with an increased role after showing some promise stepping up for the Sens when they had that rash of injuries to their blueline...hasn't worked out so well but I think Pots is a solid 4-6 pairing
?

post lockout by mcphee, or just during the 06 FA period?

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