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Laraque rumour in Oiler Board

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01-10-2004, 01:41 PM
  #1
sensfan18
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Laraque rumour in Oiler Board

Someone posted in the Oiler board that they read that Ottawa was very interested in Laraque (beleivable). However, it gets a little unbeleivable after that, they said that White was being offered. The way Todd has been playing of late I find it hard to take seriously. While I beleive Muck would like George, I think the only way he will make a deal is if it involves picks or prospects (excluding Vermette, Emery, or Eaves). He has stated over and over again he will not take away from the current roster.

The thing I find the hardest to beleive is that the oil fans seem to think Ottawa would give Fisher or Vermette for him (to me a team with very weak depth at LW will not trade its #1 young LW, common sense). I posted and tried to clarify that there is no way they would get anything more than pics/prospects or depth like hnidy, Shastlivy, or Pothier for him. While it may not cover Georges value it seems that that is the only way the sens would deal for him.

Most likely Muck would only offer Shastlivy and a 2nd/3rd for him, IMO.

Opinions??

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01-10-2004, 03:26 PM
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I think you're about right. I mentioned this possibility on another thread, but didn't leave any consideration as to Laraques trade value from our team. There is no sweet way in hell that White is out of town for Georges (nor Fish, Vermette, et al.). Most I could see is some spare parts with a healthy draft pick. Please Lord, let us see our final days with Schastlivy. At this point it's a waste of space having that guy out there. Eating up minutes, not doing anything. He is very, very cleary playing afraid - It's this mentality that we'd like to have long forgotten with this 03-04 squad.

HOWEVER - One must consider the state of the Oilers right now. What would you folks be willing to part with in order to grab a Ryan Smyth/Georges Laraque package out of Edmonton?

Smyth is that LW'er that we've longed for... Is it time that we could/should make a splash and go for the gusto?

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01-10-2004, 03:37 PM
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Just wanted to clarify: the Laraque/White rumor came from the Edmonton Journal, which is a pretty reasonable newspaper. I have no idea if it's true, though. However, it wasn't some Oiler fans running their mouths off or anything.

In regard to a Smyth/Laraque combo deal, the Oilers need a pp quarterback on the dline and a quality scoring forward. One doubts they could get both for that package, but one seems likely.

We spent the summer establishing that these two teams don't make great trading partners, and I don't think too much has changed.

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01-10-2004, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sensfan18
Someone posted in the Oiler board that they read that Ottawa was very interested in Laraque (beleivable). However, it gets a little unbeleivable after that, they said that White was being offered. The way Todd has been playing of late I find it hard to take seriously. While I beleive Muck would like George, I think the only way he will make a deal is if it involves picks or prospects (excluding Vermette, Emery, or Eaves). He has stated over and over again he will not take away from the current roster.

The thing I find the hardest to beleive is that the oil fans seem to think Ottawa would give Fisher or Vermette for him (to me a team with very weak depth at LW will not trade its #1 young LW, common sense). I posted and tried to clarify that there is no way they would get anything more than pics/prospects or depth like hnidy, Shastlivy, or Pothier for him. While it may not cover Georges value it seems that that is the only way the sens would deal for him.

Most likely Muck would only offer Shastlivy and a 2nd/3rd for him, IMO.

Opinions??
I'm sure they wouldn't just take crumbs for him. Although I haven't watched him alot, what I've seen is he has enough talent to pull his own weight as a player, and he is one of the most intimidating tough guys in the league, without being an idiot. I think he is exactly what Ottawa needs. Not so much as a fighter, but a deterent. With the number of centres Ottawa has, White might not be out of the question. I'm afraid Shastlivy wouldn't get you a bag of pucks. I wouldn't put Pothier in the same class as Shastlivy either, but I think it would take more to get Laraque.

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01-10-2004, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lafite
I'm sure they wouldn't just take crumbs for him. Although I haven't watched him alot, what I've seen is he has enough talent to pull his own weight as a player, and he is one of the most intimidating tough guys in the league, without being an idiot. I think he is exactly what Ottawa needs. Not so much as a fighter, but a deterent. With the number of centres Ottawa has, White might not be out of the question. I'm afraid Shastlivy wouldn't get you a bag of pucks. I wouldn't put Pothier in the same class as Shastlivy either, but I think it would take more to get Laraque.

I totally agree. Laraque is the undisputed heavy weight champ in the NHL. He has shown that he could dominate shifts at times so he could play the game as well. He is also fantastic in the community. He's everything Ottawa needs and I can't see the oilers trading him for any thing less than White or Fisher.

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01-10-2004, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by AVE MAN
I totally agree. Laraque is the undisputed heavy weight champ in the NHL. He has shown that he could dominate shifts at times so he could play the game as well. He is also fantastic in the community. He's everything Ottawa needs and I can't see the oilers trading him for any thing less than White or Fisher.
He is now dominating by sitting out the previous 4 games, then playing a dominating 2:43 minutes today. He has a dominating three year contract. Don't expect Muckler to give up current Sens.

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01-10-2004, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by officeglen
He is now dominating by sitting out the previous 4 games, then playing a dominating 2:43 minutes today. He has a dominating three year contract. Don't expect Muckler to give up current Sens.
Thank you, and well said. What needs NOT to be forgotten is that Laraque is seeing absolutely nothing from Edmonton at this point. Needless to say that the Oilers are fighting to keep within a shot at a playoff spot (congrats on the 3-0 win vs. Philly). White won't be leaving to Edmonton for Laraque. I honestly think Laraque is just what the Sens are looking for, but I can't see us shedding anything but a spare part package with draft picks, unless it's for a bigger (huge) package w/ Ryan Smyth. I keep bringing up Smyth because, though the team is playing well, I think we need some serious grit and leadership up front to push us over the top. It may be like pulling teeth getting Smyth into some trade talks, but I think the future is now for Ottawa. If John Muckler gets his "Einstein" on, and makes a splash in the Ottawa scene like everyone is pretty much expecting, I think it would involve having a fairly large name packaged up with some picks/prospects/spare parts leaving Ottawa to get a deal revolving around Smyth and Laraque going. I can't tell you how sick it would be to see Ryan Smyth in a Sens jersey.

I've never, ever been all about the Bonk rumours, but at this point in the season, what has Bonk REALLY done in Ottawa? I mean last year I would say that he was a huge link in the offensive contribution, but as we see Spezza clearly emerge as an offensive force and large contributor in the lineup, Bonks stock is quickly on the downfall. And it doesn't end at that - He has been floating around far too much for my liking, and after a billion seasons within the system you'd like to see at least an effort with the media (if nothing else) to take some hand in the leadership commitee. As much as I think Alfie is the guy to take us to the cup, and I DO think that, we need more of a Nieuwendyk'esque presence and Bonk is anyting but that. Take Bonk while he's still a commodity, I say (with a LITTLE bit of hesitance).

Bottom line is this: We've got a very, very strong, young and talented core group with the Sens of 03-04, and at this point I think our best move would be to bring in someone that would push us over the top, even if it means subtracting a little from our core. We'll see what Mucks gets up to in the next month.

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01-11-2004, 03:44 AM
  #8
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Originally Posted by lowetide
We spent the summer establishing that these two teams don't make great trading partners, and I don't think too much has changed.
That quote pretty much nails it on the head.

And I doubt Perimeter Schastlivy is Oiler material. And they must have guys like White in Edmonton. Now I like White and he is inexpensive which is good for Edmonton but I bet we need White the minute after we trade him (bad luck injury). And to top it off, who at RW in Ottawa would you subtract to give Laraque icetime? I can see maybe a trade for Laraque during the off-season, then perhaps you can try to leisurely switch him or Neil to LW. And do GMs really go out searching for enforcers for the playoffs in this day and age? Anyway, I'm not saying White is untouchable, just that some trades look better in the summer than at this time of year. Vermette might eventually replace White but not right away, I'd rather have White for the 2004 playoffs. White will get 15 minutes per game in these playoffs and Laraque 5 minutes. You do the math.

I'd like Laraque for depth, but not at all costs.

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01-11-2004, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Puck
That quote pretty much nails it on the head.

I'd like Laraque for depth, but not at all costs.
Exactly, that is what I meant. While he may be worth White, it makes no sense from an Ottawa standpoint and the only way muck will deal for him is if it is for picks or prospects (plus Shastlivy, please someone take him away). However, as an oiler fan mentioned they need a powerplay QB, enter Pothier, I really think given the ice-time he would make a great PP QB.

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01-11-2004, 09:52 AM
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[QUOTE=Puck]That quote pretty much nails it on the head.

). And to top it off, who at RW in Ottawa would you subtract to give Laraque icetime?

Well, in the Buffalo game, Neil was playing left wing with Bonk and Hossa. I'm not sure if that was a reward for Neil doing something right, or a perceived need to put some protection with those guys. The point is, he played left wing. Now a line of Neil Van Allen and Laraque would strike fear in the hearts of men, and occassionally toughening up another line with either Neil or Laraque as the need arises. Someone who has watched both teams more might no better, but what little I have seen of Laraque is he is at least as good as Neil as a player.

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01-11-2004, 10:02 AM
  #11
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Originally Posted by lafite

Well, in the Buffalo game, Neil was playing left wing with Bonk and Hossa. I'm not sure if that was a reward for Neil doing something right, or a perceived need to put some protection with those guys. The point is, he played left wing. Now a line of Neil Van Allen and Laraque would strike fear in the hearts of men, and occassionally toughening up another line with either Neil or Laraque as the need arises. Someone who has watched both teams more might no better, but what little I have seen of Laraque is he is at least as good as Neil as a player.

I've watched both teams this year (oil are my 2nd fav. team) and yes George is a little better than Neil. The reason is how he uses his size, he leans on guys like crazy add the fact that he is the top heavyweight in the game and bango we need him. His value is dropping as we speak, he was not playing at all and then he gets put in the line-up and barely plays. I think you will see him in an Ottawa uniform in the near future, and contrary to some beleifs, the oil will only get a pick for him. I say a 2nd.

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01-11-2004, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by sensfan18
I've watched both teams this year (oil are my 2nd fav. team) and yes George is a little better than Neil. The reason is how he uses his size, he leans on guys like crazy add the fact that he is the top heavyweight in the game and bango we need him. His value is dropping as we speak, he was not playing at all and then he gets put in the line-up and barely plays. I think you will see him in an Ottawa uniform in the near future, and contrary to some beleifs, the oil will only get a pick for him. I say a 2nd.
I say a 2nd and not a top prospect, such as a 2nd and Julien Vauclair.

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01-11-2004, 11:11 AM
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I must say, the fantasy in my head of seeing a Sens player (like Laraque) pummel people like Brashear or Domi senseless is appealing. Kinda brings out the kid in me. Odds are however we would never see that even with Laraque on the Senators, you wouldn't catch those suckers 10 feet anywhere near Big Georges. I know we have a billionaire owner but do you guys think we can afford to pay 1.5 million for a guy seeing 5-6 minutes on the 4th line? As long as Melnyk doesn't mind, I sure as heck don't....

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01-11-2004, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Puck
I must say, the fantasy in my head of seeing a Sens player (like Laraque) pummel people like Brashear or Domi senseless is appealing. Kinda brings out the kid in me. Odds are however we would never see that even with Laraque on the Senators, you wouldn't catch those suckers 10 feet anywhere near Big Georges. I know we have a billionaire owner but do you guys think we can afford to pay 1.5 million for a guy seeing 5-6 minutes on the 4th line? As long as Melnyk doesn't mind, I sure as heck don't....
The reason that the Sens would trade for Big George is not so much his fighting ability, since he will only be expected to drop the gloves when absolutely called for, following the style demanded by the coach, and one he seems comfortable with (too comfortable for the Oilers). Instead the main reason is that Jacques Martin wants somebody who can stay in front of the net against the great goaltenders. He has sometimes used Chara in this role before, but he is too valuable as a D stopping the opposition from putting big players in front of the Sens net.

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01-11-2004, 12:11 PM
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uhhhm ok, that's why I want him too then

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01-11-2004, 12:43 PM
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If the best that Kevin Lowe can do for George Laraques is a 2nd and a mediocre prospect, I am pretty sure that the Oilers would rather keep him.

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01-11-2004, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by slats432
If the best that Kevin Lowe can do for George Laraques is a 2nd and a mediocre prospect, I am pretty sure that the Oilers would rather keep him.
That depends on whether the Oilers would rather keep $1.4M a year for two and half years.

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01-11-2004, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by officeglen
That depends on whether the Oilers would rather keep $1.4M a year for two and half years.
Despite BG's disappointing play, he'd never be a salary dump. He's probably worth that much in goodwill in the community. I know, I know, you're laughing out loud right now.

But it's true.

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01-11-2004, 03:32 PM
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I believe you lowetide. I just don't know what that goodwill in Edmonton translates into in Ottawa...

Of course I understand that if other GMs thought this was a salary dump, Edmonton wouldn't get offered fair value at par. I'm not a GM so I'm not trying to drive a hard bargain here, I'm really not sure what fair value for Laraque would be.

I didn't think it was White, especially now that Bonk is in the doghouse. I really don't know what element I would subtract from the Sens to add Laraque. The Oilers wouldn't want what I'd give you and vice-versa. You are quite welcome to kick some tires at Binghamton our AHL affiliate. Let me know what you decide....

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01-11-2004, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Puck
I believe you lowetide. I just don't know what that goodwill in Edmonton translates into in Ottawa...

Of course I understand that if other GMs thought this was a salary dump, Edmonton wouldn't get offered fair value at par. I'm not a GM so I'm not trying to drive a hard bargain here, I'm really not sure what fair value for Laraque would be.

I didn't think it was White, especially now that Bonk is in the doghouse. I really don't know what element I would subtract from the Sens to add Laraque. The Oilers wouldn't want what I'd give you and vice-versa. You are quite welcome to kick some tires at Binghamton our AHL affiliate. Let me know what you decide....
I don't think White is fair value either, to be honest. It makes little sense for Ottawa to trade someone they need every night for what is a finishing piece (albeit an important one).

I can think of a multitude of players I'd like from Ottawa, from Prusek to Vermette and I still like Schastlivy (or maybe it's the IDEA of Schastlivy).

The bottom line may change though if Edmonton falls out of the race and wants to stockpile picks for the upcoming draft. They have 2 first rounders and 2 second rounders, so may package some of them to move up into the top 10 this year.

An extra pick might help that out. But not until they're dead and buried.

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01-12-2004, 03:32 AM
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You could easily have Schastlivy, he's in Chateau BowWow in Ottawa right now (the royal doghouse). Of course you know Shaz having visited the Sens site for years, you know what he might be capable of. But he might be harder for an Oiler GM to sell to fans in Edmonton right now. He's more of a Sergei Berezin type player. If he can't play on the top 2 lines in Edmonton, he'll be useless on lines 3 or 4.

I think Vermette, Prusek or even Eaves would be quasi-untouchable right now. Prusek might be available next season if Lalime signs and Emery graduates. Of course Muckler might trade Eaves, he set a precedent trading Klepis and Gleason but those two weren't his personal picks. I'd also say Mirnov and Kaigodorov might not get traded until we get a good look and figure their worth, but maybe the pro-scouts already have a good idea and they could be dealt.

On the other hand, Langfeld is an older player just screaming to get traded right now, and to a lesser extent Giroux. I'd hate to see Chris Kelly go. He'd be a perfect Oiler but he might not have enough speed for you. I wouldn't suggest you touch Vauclair on D, he's big but not tough enough for Edmonton...Jan Platil is good but he's still a project about 2 years away. If I mention Laich, Hossa our mod might kill me LOL.

You can go check for yourself.
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/team.php?team=18

Unless you want Schastlivy, I'd say adding by subtraction might be difficult to swallow right now with our injuries. I'd also trade you one of Hnidy or Pothier but things are tight these days after Volchenkov went down. If you don't want prospects or picks, I'd suggest we wait until after the playoffs to deal. I'm sure all the armchair GMs in Edmonton want younger, better, cheaper in return for Laraque...like everybody.


Last edited by Puck: 01-12-2004 at 03:44 AM.
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01-12-2004, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sensfan18
Someone posted in the Oiler board that they read that Ottawa was very interested in Laraque (beleivable). However, it gets a little unbeleivable after that, they said that White was being offered. The way Todd has been playing of late I find it hard to take seriously. While I beleive Muck would like George, I think the only way he will make a deal is if it involves picks or prospects (excluding Vermette, Emery, or Eaves). He has stated over and over again he will not take away from the current roster.

The thing I find the hardest to beleive is that the oil fans seem to think Ottawa would give Fisher or Vermette for him (to me a team with very weak depth at LW will not trade its #1 young LW, common sense). I posted and tried to clarify that there is no way they would get anything more than pics/prospects or depth like hnidy, Shastlivy, or Pothier for him. While it may not cover Georges value it seems that that is the only way the sens would deal for him.

Most likely Muck would only offer Shastlivy and a 2nd/3rd for him, IMO.

Opinions??
White had not been offered. The article just said that he was a name that makes a bit of sense. I don't see White coming back without a center going your way though. We have 5 Centers figthing for 4 spots at the moment.

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01-12-2004, 09:37 AM
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(On premise that the Oilers are out of the playoff picture come deadline)

I'd like something along the lines of Volchenkov + Emery for Smyth + Laraque, you would have to sweeten it a little since were trading for an injured player but I like this deal at its base.


Emery- Someone to pair with Conks next year as we likely won't re-sign Salo after this year. Lowe also seems to be going in the big goalie direction and Emery fits the bill. Lalime and Prusek are a fine tandemn and are still young you can draft another top goalie in this year's draft to re-fill the pipeline.

Volchenkov- Many beleive it's just a matter of time before we trade J. Smith if he does not sign an extension Volchenkov would fill his role nicely as a physical defensive stalwart. I know it hurts Ottawa to give him up but he would not be an impact player in the play-offs coming off injury and even if he was perfectly fine I think Smyth would still make a larger impact then him as he fills a greater weakness in your line-up.


Smyth- adds grit, leadership, and scoring from the Lw which has been your achilles for what seems like eternity. Smyth is the heart and soul of our club but his contract is getting a little burdensome for the small market club and we have too many Lw's begging for a spot in the line-up

Laraque- more grit, good playoff performer, and best fighter in the leaguewith a skill set that puts him a step up on your average goon. Has not been the greatest for Edmonton this year could hopefully rediscover what makes him special in Ottawa.

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01-12-2004, 10:03 AM
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emery, Vermette and volchenkov are about as untouchable as they get. If you want a good young player from the Sens...wait till Alfie has signed his retirement contract...then Havlat becomes a little more available.

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01-12-2004, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FacelessButcher
(On premise that the Oilers are out of the playoff picture come deadline)

I'd like something along the lines of Volchenkov + Emery for Smyth + Laraque, you would have to sweeten it a little since were trading for an injured player but I like this deal at its base.


Emery- Someone to pair with Conks next year as we likely won't re-sign Salo after this year. Lowe also seems to be going in the big goalie direction and Emery fits the bill. Lalime and Prusek are a fine tandemn and are still young you can draft another top goalie in this year's draft to re-fill the pipeline.

Volchenkov- Many beleive it's just a matter of time before we trade J. Smith if he does not sign an extension Volchenkov would fill his role nicely as a physical defensive stalwart. I know it hurts Ottawa to give him up but he would not be an impact player in the play-offs coming off injury and even if he was perfectly fine I think Smyth would still make a larger impact then him as he fills a greater weakness in your line-up.


Smyth- adds grit, leadership, and scoring from the Lw which has been your achilles for what seems like eternity. Smyth is the heart and soul of our club but his contract is getting a little burdensome for the small market club and we have too many Lw's begging for a spot in the line-up

Laraque- more grit, good playoff performer, and best fighter in the leaguewith a skill set that puts him a step up on your average goon. Has not been the greatest for Edmonton this year could hopefully rediscover what makes him special in Ottawa.

I don't think Emery will get dealt, everything I've read about him says he's top drawer. I'd consider trading Smyth in a package for any of the Sens top 5 dmen (Redden,Chara,Phillips, Rachunek, Volchenkov) but I don't think it helps a Stanley run by trading ANY defensemen.

I keep thinking there's a Vermette//Prusek for Ryan Smyth and BG package out there if the Oilers fall out of it, but as I said earlier some great minds have posted on every HF board and no one has come up with a suitable Oiler/Sens trade since Hossa suggested Salo for Chimera and I accepted on behalf of the Oiler board.

There were three of us at HF Oil the time, as I recall, which may have had something to do with the universal agreement that it was a good deal.

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