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TSN: Niedermayer likely back; Ducks will trade a defenseman, Burke presser 6:30 PST

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12-05-2007, 04:26 PM
  #151
DG
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Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
That said, I think there'd be a market for Schneider if he was moved for cheap or if the Ducks sweetened the offer a bit. There were other teams interested in him during the summer and I'm sure some of those teams would still have some interest now.
I think Burke probably signed him knowing Niedermeyer was coming back all along (or had a reasonably good idea), so I don't think he'll move him either.

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12-05-2007, 04:40 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Darth Gerber View Post
I think Burke probably signed him knowing Niedermeyer was coming back all along (or had a reasonably good idea), so I don't think he'll move him either.
Or he intentionally signed Schneider as a place holder until Nieds came back (or as an insurance policy in case he didn't). He may also have told Schneider that such was the case, and the two have a gentleman's agreement that if Nieds come back, Burke can trade him to a short list of teams who Schneider spoke with during the summer prior to signing with Anaheim.

Not saying I know this is the case or anything, but I do see it as a distinct possibility.

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12-05-2007, 04:49 PM
  #153
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Or he intentionally signed Schneider as a place holder until Nieds came back (or as an insurance policy in case he didn't). He may also have told Schneider that such was the case, and the two have a gentleman's agreement that if Nieds come back, Burke can trade him to a short list of teams who Schneider spoke with during the summer prior to signing with Anaheim.

Not saying I know this is the case or anything, but I do see it as a distinct possibility.
Its an interesting conspiracy theory, but I doubt Schneider would have agree to this. Burke couldn't even get a measly draft pick for low-paid and valuable Bryzgala, what makes everyone so sure that he can even trade Schneider? The fly in the ointment is that Schneider has been hurt, is slow, and has a huge contract.

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12-05-2007, 04:50 PM
  #154
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Could it be that they could unsuspend Nieds and it would be automatically followed by a voiding of the Getzlaf extension (last contract signed) rather than a case of being absolutely no Nieds return allowed?
Nope. Contrary to popular belief, the NHL has absolutely no authority to void contracts which were registered and approved by Central Registry.

But just for kicks, let's say Anaheim did ask for this and the NHL agreed and voided the contract. The Ducks would then be subject to an immediate $25,000 fine and possible investigation for violating Article 26.

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12-05-2007, 04:53 PM
  #155
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According to XM (Jim Tatti and Phil Esposito), Brian Burke has called a presser for tonight.

TSN link: Concerns Niedermayer, as he will probably return.
http://www.tsn.ca/news_story.asp?ID=224451&hubName=main

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12-05-2007, 04:55 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Nilsson Schmilsson View Post
If Burke traded a multi-year contract for an impending UFA, the UFA's cap amount would only have to be the same as the guy leaving the Ducks.

Using the earlier example, MacDonald and Morrison have basically the same salary, but Morrison is a UFA at the end of the year. There would be no effect on the Duck's cap this year. Getting rid of MacDonald's cap hit for next year would allow Burke the space to bring back Neidermeyer.
Yup, we are saying the same things. My post was in response to the line that it is about next year, not this year, but it is truly about both years.

The challenge of dealing for an impending UFA is there are very few available at this time, and especially few of significants. And it leaves no room for further tinkering.

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12-05-2007, 04:59 PM
  #157
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This whole thing makes you wonder about the sutherby...Oh, maybe Burke has the trade worked out already. I guess we'll have to wait and see!

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12-05-2007, 05:00 PM
  #158
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Maybe they will trade Nieds!

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12-05-2007, 05:00 PM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dburdick View Post
Its an interesting conspiracy theory, but I doubt Schneider would have agree to this. Burke couldn't even get a measly draft pick for low-paid and valuable Bryzgala, what makes everyone so sure that he can even trade Schneider? The fly in the ointment is that Schneider has been hurt, is slow, and has a huge contract.
I don't really see it as much of a conspiracy. If it came out that the two had a gentleman's agreement, it's not like anyone would really be all that upset. Seems pretty much just business as usual, IMO.

It was widely reported that Schneider talked to several teams, and Anaheim kinda swooped in at the last minute. Schneider might've agreed to do it because there was the chance that Niedermayer didn't come back and then he plays two years for the defending cup champs, and worst case scenario he ends up playing for one of the teams he would've played for had he not signed with Anaheim. So there's really not much reason not to to do it, other than I suppose the risk that Burke goes back on the agreement and trades him to a team Schneider doesn't want to play for.

Of course, if this were the case, I'm sure neither party was planning for Schneider to be injured.

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12-05-2007, 05:10 PM
  #160
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I don't see many GM's wanting to help Burke make his team that much better. Nobody in the west and nobody in a playoff position in the east.

I could possibly see Buffalo though.

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12-05-2007, 05:24 PM
  #161
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I honestly don't see why they would trade O'Donnell or Beauchemin. Both are too cheap to make a significant impact in cap space if Burke wants to add Nieds, maybe bring back Selanne, and potentially add someone else at the deadline.

Schneider to Carolina makes a ton of sense if you ask me.

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12-05-2007, 05:28 PM
  #162
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I don't see many GM's wanting to help Burke make his team that much better. Nobody in the west and nobody in a playoff position in the east.

I could possibly see Buffalo though.
I don't get this argument. Of course no team is going to absorb a contract for the hell of it, but if they feel they are getting a solid player that will contribute to their team, why not make the deal? If Schneider is in fact being shopped around he is still a capable top pairing defenseman that can immediately improve any teams PP. I can see a number of teams being interested even at his cap hit. They're not going to overpay to get him, but in this situation I doubt Burke would even be looking for fair value.

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12-05-2007, 05:31 PM
  #163
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I wonder if TSN or everything will carry video of the press conference.

I'd hate for him to be in the lineup tonight against the Sabres.

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12-05-2007, 05:42 PM
  #164
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I don't get this argument. Of course no team is going to absorb a contract for the hell of it, but if they feel they are getting a solid player that will contribute to their team, why not make the deal? If Schneider is in fact being shopped around he is still a capable top pairing defenseman that can immediately improve any teams PP. I can see a number of teams being interested even at his cap hit. They're not going to overpay to get him, but in this situation I doubt Burke would even be looking for fair value.
I'm not saying absorbing a contract just for the hell of it I'm saying there just isn't that many teams that could be willing to fix Burkes Bertuzzi screwup just for fun.

Look if the info is out that Burke needs to trade within a week he is not going to get full value of anything, he couldn't get a draft pick for Bryz.

If he needs to trade quick he is going to lose, I'm sure he has said "no" about 28 times (not KLowe) to GM's offering to take Kunitz + whatever off his hands for a couple firsts + garbage.

He needs to drop just over 3 million, thats Beauch and MacDonald/Marchant. I don't see any other deal that a GM would even think about.

But I am intrigued that if he is going to announce he is back today that would mean he would be taken off suspension....can he do that without the tagging rule coming into effect? Could we hear of a trade within the next hour?

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12-05-2007, 05:48 PM
  #165
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But I am intrigued that if he is going to announce he is back today that would mean he would be taken off suspension....can he do that without the tagging rule coming into effect? Could we hear of a trade within the next hour?
It doesn't make sense that Burke would have Niedermayer back at this very moment if it was going to cause all kinds of problems. And if thats the case, Burke is an idiot. It would be all to easy to hold off Niedermayers return for a couple of days if he needed to make a trade ASAP.

Either hes a moron, hes already got a trade in place that will just as well be announced at the presser (Not all trades are rumored), or hes got a certain period of time in which he can make a trade before he gets penalized.

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12-05-2007, 05:54 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
It doesn't make sense that Burke would have Niedermayer back at this very moment if it was going to cause all kinds of problems. And if thats the case, Burke is an idiot. It would be all to easy to hold off Niedermayers return for a couple of days if he needed to make a trade ASAP.

Either hes a moron, hes already got a trade in place that will just as well be announced at the presser (Not all trades are rumored), or hes got a certain period of time in which he can make a trade before he gets penalized.
Or as some (including myself) have surmised earlier, that the tagging rule is just not an issue for Niedermayer.

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12-05-2007, 06:01 PM
  #167
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Or as some (including myself) have surmised earlier, that the tagging rule is just not an issue for Niedermayer.
How so? I didnt know this..

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12-05-2007, 06:01 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
It doesn't make sense that Burke would have Niedermayer back at this very moment if it was going to cause all kinds of problems. And if thats the case, Burke is an idiot. It would be all to easy to hold off Niedermayers return for a couple of days if he needed to make a trade ASAP.

Either hes a moron, hes already got a trade in place that will just as well be announced at the presser (Not all trades are rumored), or hes got a certain period of time in which he can make a trade before he gets penalized.

Exactly


Which is also the point that if he announces it before being removed from suspension doesn't the break the rules of the CBA that he is bypassing the rules.

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12-05-2007, 06:01 PM
  #169
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I can't see anyone taking on a 5.75 million dollar 39 year old defenseman for next year, especially one who's been hurt all season. There's a lot of risk there.

But then trading one of O'Donnell or Beauchemin really doesn't clear much cap room...

Maybe we'll see Burke package one of them with a guy like Marchant. ..

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12-05-2007, 06:04 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by obobo23 View Post
Or as some (including myself) have surmised earlier, that the tagging rule is just not an issue for Niedermayer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
How so? I didnt know this..
It's probably going to be an issue for signing extensions more than anything else ... but the only team that could reasonably be affected at the moment is Philadelphia. Everyone else can probably get at least one player signed to an extension right now.

It's also yet another reason why impending UFA's are more desirable in trades - because the acquiring team doesn't have to worry about the tagging rule with them.


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12-05-2007, 06:13 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
How so? I didnt know this..
Read near the beginning of the thread. Maybe 40 posts in and later? Some tagging discussion got lost amongst the crazy trade proposals.


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It's also yet another reason why impending UFA's are more desirable in trades - because the acquiring team doesn't have to worry about the tagging rule with them.
Exactly. Just like in the NBA, expiring salaries are just as big a part of a trade as the other assets. I just found amusing of all the talk on the trade board of how "this guy's contract is expiring, he's worth NOTHING." A typical NBA trade involves a star for high prospects plus a vet or two who can produce a little, and who are on expiring contracts. The expiring contracts were just as important.

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12-05-2007, 06:20 PM
  #172
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I just found amusing of all the talk on the trade board of how "this guy's contract is expiring, he's worth NOTHING."
I said 2 years ago that impending UFA's were going to be the most coveted players at the deadline, and hundreds of posters howled and laughed. I think it's safe to say I've been proven correct on that one. That's not to say I don't get 'em wrong on occasion [Nagy won't get a 1st; Fedoruk won't get claimed on recall waivers] but the value of impending UFA's was one I nailed perfectly.

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12-05-2007, 08:19 PM
  #173
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Nope. Contrary to popular belief, the NHL has absolutely no authority to void contracts which were registered and approved by Central Registry.

But just for kicks, let's say Anaheim did ask for this and the NHL agreed and voided the contract. The Ducks would then be subject to an immediate $25,000 fine and possible investigation for violating Article 26.
I doubt that would worry the Ducks management. Getzlaf has already agreed and signed, so both sides know his price. If the contract was voided it would just give Burke more time and space to deal with Neids. Wait for Neids to retire again, or use the time to move someone else during/after the season and then just redo the exact same deal with Getzlaf that he'd signed earlier.

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12-05-2007, 08:31 PM
  #174
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I think Schneider is tradable, his age/contract cancel most of his value but he's still a solid player. Anyone expecting a big return is probably deluded but I could see him fetching anything from futures to a 2nd (2nd being a bit closer to the deadline).

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12-05-2007, 09:35 PM
  #175
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I doubt that would worry the Ducks management. Getzlaf has already agreed and signed, so both sides know his price. If the contract was voided it would just give Burke more time and space to deal with Neids. Wait for Neids to retire again, or use the time to move someone else during/after the season and then just redo the exact same deal with Getzlaf that he'd signed earlier.
If it was voided, there would very likely be an investigation into whether the Ducks committed a circumvention; if the answer to that is 'yes', the minimum fine is $1 million [maximum $5 million] - and the entire amount gets applied against the cap for the following season. That might not affect Getzlaf, but it would put a huge crimp in plans to get Perry under contract and round out the roster.

I don't think that's a scenario the Ducks want to chance.

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I think Schneider is tradable, his age/contract cancel most of his value but he's still a solid player. Anyone expecting a big return is probably deluded but I could see him fetching anything from futures to a 2nd (2nd being a bit closer to the deadline).
The Ducks don't have until the deadline to make a move to get in compliance to get Niedermayer back on the roster. If you're suggesting this move comes on top of the ones they make to get in compliance, it's not exactly a dream scenario we're talking about.

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