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GDT: Blues @ Calgary 12-4-07

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Old
12-04-2007, 11:53 PM
  #26
Twist and Shout
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How was Hannu? Saw a couple of highlights of nice saves ...

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Old
12-04-2007, 11:55 PM
  #27
Stang
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Originally Posted by Twist And Shout View Post
How was Hannu? Saw a couple of highlights of nice saves ...
From listening to the game I heard that he was the only thing that kept it from being a huge blowout

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Old
12-05-2007, 12:00 AM
  #28
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If my view is so laughable...why is everyone else agreeing that Brewer is not a good player?
Becasue most of you would rather conform to public opinion or can't get over who he was traded for rather than consider any other point of view.

Brewer played nearly 25 minutes tonight, that's too many. Some of you need to realize that Brewer playing isn't the problem, it's that Brewer is forced to play top minutes as if he was a top pairing defenseman because we don't have true top defensemen. Outside of his turnover he didn't have a bad game.


As for tonight's game,

Again, Brewer made a bad turnover at the end, but the game was over when Backman and the powerplay blew it.

No one mentions it, but Jackman coughed the puck up more than anyone tonight and the stats will back me up on that.

Finally, Doug Weight (who should be getting the hate around here) had another stellar game. He took a penalty, led the forwards with a -2, and generated very very little offensively. Of course he'll be back in the lineup next game because he's untouchable to Murray.

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12-05-2007, 01:14 AM
  #29
Adam91
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time to put Perron back in?

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Old
12-05-2007, 01:17 AM
  #30
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time to put Perron back in?
It was time for that 3 games ago. I'm sure Murray will justify not playing him though. We need to keep Weight in the lineup

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Old
12-05-2007, 02:15 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Checker View Post


It was time for that 3 games ago. I'm sure Murray will justify not playing him though. We need to keep Weight in the lineup
Dave's playing for Canada in the World Jr's so don't expect him to be on the Blues for a bit.

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Old
12-05-2007, 08:17 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Checker View Post
Becasue most of you would rather conform to public opinion or can't get over who he was traded for rather than consider any other point of view.

Brewer played nearly 25 minutes tonight, that's too many. Some of you need to realize that Brewer playing isn't the problem, it's that Brewer is forced to play top minutes as if he was a top pairing defenseman because we don't have true top defensemen. Outside of his turnover he didn't have a bad game.


As for tonight's game,

Again, Brewer made a bad turnover at the end, but the game was over when Backman and the powerplay blew it.

No one mentions it, but Jackman coughed the puck up more than anyone tonight and the stats will back me up on that.

Finally, Doug Weight (who should be getting the hate around here) had another stellar game. He took a penalty, led the forwards with a -2, and generated very very little offensively. Of course he'll be back in the lineup next game because he's untouchable to Murray.
Checker, like you I have been a staunch defender of Brewer. I tend to think he gets the short end of the stick w/ the fans. However, last night he didn't have a good game. It wasn't even the last turnover, but everytime he went to the boards and battled for the puck, he lost it. I didn't see him win a 1 on 1 battle all night. Also, McKee.... yes he blocks shots, but that is about it.

I do agree w/ you about Weight. Boy, which ever line he gets put on, that lines productions drops. TK has been able to get M. Johnson going, but Weight has done little. I would love to see him sit, but we do lack Centers, unless you are planning on breaking up one of the lines.

Try something like this:

Boyes, KT, Karia
Stempy, McClement, Perron
M. Johnson, Mayers, Backes
Hinote, R. Johnson, King

Backman, Jax
EJ, Salvador
McKee, Wagner

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Old
12-05-2007, 09:59 AM
  #33
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Anyone else get the feeling that the 'Eye of the Tiger' intro was playing in McKees head while Toivonen was down ? I mean, he did always want to be a goalie..........

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Old
12-05-2007, 10:07 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Checker View Post
Becasue most of you would rather conform to public opinion or can't get over who he was traded for rather than consider any other point of view..
"Public opinion" is that he is one of our top Defensemen.

Just like you said, ask the Blues beat writer, ask the Coach, ask the Blues Management, ask the majority of fans. That you NOW say that "Brewer Sucks" is the norm around Blues nation is a bunch of horse sh**.

It just happens to be "most" people on this board can form their own opinion outside of what a organzation tells them to think.

And by the way it's Murray who had JD last year, as well as Beat writers and fans (including yourself) believe that Brewer has been solid. The same Murray you can NOT stand for doing doing what he is doing to Perron.


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Old
12-05-2007, 10:47 AM
  #35
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Dave's playing for Canada in the World Jr's so don't expect him to be on the Blues for a bit.
that hasn't been confirmed at all, actually.

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Old
12-05-2007, 11:34 AM
  #36
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I'm not saying that Brewer out-and-out sucks, but I am saying the times where he's played like a top-2 defenseman are few and far between; I don't expect a top-2 defenseman to have horrific giveaways night in and night out, and I expect them to be better defensively.

The problem is, who else on this team is ready to stand up as a #1 on December 5, 2007? Anyone who's ready to grab the reins and be a #2? EJ will be a #1 guy [and he needs to be playing night in and night out, mistakes or no mistakes], but I don't think Brewer is could be considered a #2 guy on most teams. He's definitely a top-4 guy, but we can't have him playing as a 3/4 guy ... we need him to step up and be a leader on the blueline.

He hasn't yet - after showing signs that he was ready to take his game to the proverbial "next level" last season, I'm not seeing it this year.

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Old
12-05-2007, 11:48 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Irish Blues View Post
I'm not saying that Brewer out-and-out sucks, but I am saying the times where he's played like a top-2 defenseman are few and far between; I don't expect a top-2 defenseman to have horrific giveaways night in and night out, and I expect them to be better defensively.

The problem is, who else on this team is ready to stand up as a #1 on December 5, 2007? Anyone who's ready to grab the reins and be a #2? EJ will be a #1 guy [and he needs to be playing night in and night out, mistakes or no mistakes], but I don't think Brewer is could be considered a #2 guy on most teams. He's definitely a top-4 guy, but we can't have him playing as a 3/4 guy ... we need him to step up and be a leader on the blueline.

He hasn't yet - after showing signs that he was ready to take his game to the proverbial "next level" last season, I'm not seeing it this year.
Exactly.

Hence why I think he does "suck". Because even though he nor anyone else will live up to Pronger or MacInnis, yet Brewer is suppose to be our top 2 defensemen and he is getting paid like it as well as his no trade clause he was granted last spring. Yes, he is not the worst defensemen in the NHL, but I think he is one of the worst "top 2 defensemen" (like Murray thinks he is) I have seen in sometime.

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Old
12-05-2007, 12:31 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by TrustInJarmo View Post
Exactly.

Hence why I think he does "suck". Because even though he nor anyone else will live up to Pronger or MacInnis, yet Brewer is suppose to be our top 2 defensemen and he is getting paid like it as well as his no trade clause he was granted last spring. Yes, he is not the worst defensemen in the NHL, but I think he is one of the worst "top 2 defensemen" (like Murray thinks he is) I have seen in sometime.
And McKee is being paid a lot less? ********. And Trust, you when was the last time you took Jackman to the woodshed. All Checker is saying is that you, and most of the fans on the Blues boards give him a free pass and pile on Brewer. Both have had not been great this year. But not once have I seen you jump on Jackman who has had just as many turnovers as Brewer.

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Old
12-05-2007, 12:57 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Frenzy1 View Post
And McKee is being paid a lot less? ********. And Trust, you when was the last time you took Jackman to the woodshed. All Checker is saying is that you, and most of the fans on the Blues boards give him a free pass and pile on Brewer. Both have had not been great this year. But not once have I seen you jump on Jackman who has had just as many turnovers as Brewer.
Like Checker is with Brewer, I am a huge fan of Jackman. Yes, I have called him out this year, not as much as Brewer.

But if you also go over to the trade forums...you will see many proposals where I want Jackman traded.

The reason I don't bash Jackman as much as Brewer, is because we are about to do ONE of two things: we are going to sign Jax to a long term contract and possibly a no trade clause OR we could get a nice return on him in a trade and continue to rebuild.

Plus, In my opinion Jackman has NOT been playing as bad as Brewer has in most games. Jackman does not make the stupid mistakes over and over and over and over again like Brewer does.

But if Jackman keeps playing poorly and JD makes the wrong move, like he did with Brewer last year, than you will see me ALL OVER this board when and if Jackman signs a crazy contract for more than $4 million a year on a mulit year contract WITH a no trade clause to be our "top 2 dman". And you will also see me more all over JD for making 3 bad signings on defense in a row. McKee I kind of understand, but the others I don't.

We are Stuck with our so called "Top 2 Defensemen" for 4 more years, but we are NOT yet stuck with Jackman. Keep in mind 2.2 Million a year compared to 4 million a year is about twice the difference.

Good point on McKee, I should be bashing Jay more...but I don't get to see him all that much as of late because he is up in the booth (where Brewer hasn't been ALL season). Also, I believe Jay is better than Brewer this year.

The other difference between Brewer and Mckee is that the Blues were the WORST team in hockey in the summer of 2006...we needed defense and we needed a veteran. Hence overpaying for a guy like Jay Mckee. Not to say I loved the deal, but I understood it from a business perspective.

Just like I love Jackman, but we need to trade him for the best of the Blues.

McKee needs to step up his game!!! And so does Jackman because we need to trade Jax and get a great return in a couple months!! (I will start doing more of that Frenzy)


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Old
12-05-2007, 06:03 PM
  #40
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I was at the game last Saturday vs. the Hawks and the whole section was chanting Brewer sucks. I think the reason people pile on is because of games like last night. When he is bad he is horrible. And then when he's good he's good...not great. IMHO the good does not outway the bad. Jackman also had a boneheaded turnover early in the second period that Toivonen save him on so it's not just Brewer that needs to tighten things up, but honestly if you took the jersey off of Brewer and Wagner and had independent scouts watch 10 of their games this year and then ask 20 scouts who they thought was the 1st round pick was and who the undrafted free-agent was I'm sure it would be split pretty close.

On the plus side Toivonen was great. He really deserved the win. It's a shame the team couldn't match Calgary's intensity in the second period.

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Old
12-05-2007, 07:28 PM
  #41
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[QUOTE=St.Louis sports fan;11490636]if you took the jersey off of Brewer and Wagner and had independent scouts watch 10 of their games this year and then ask 20 scouts who they thought was the 1st round pick was and who the undrafted free-agent was I'm sure it would be split pretty close.
QUOTE]

I disagree with this statement VERY much so. I think there is no doubt in anyone's mind who the most talented and skilled defenseman on the Blues is. That is definitely Brewer. Not even close. What a scout would tell you watching them is that once the Brewer kid matures and learns the game, he could be an all star in this league. No defenseman on the Blues has his talent, but all of them have more hockey sense.

The Blues biggest problem is that they have a surplus of 4-6 defenseman. They have 9 of them. I'm pretty much convinced now that Backman and Jackman aren't going to get any better. McKee and Salvy are what they are. EJ and Wagner will get better. I'm not convinced that Wagner will be much more than a 5 or 6 at this point. EJ has top 1-2 potential. Walker could be a 6. Woywitka and Polak will be 6s. If Brewer is a 4 on your team, then you have a really good team. If he is a 1 or 2, then I hope you have a bunch of 4-6 guys behind him. It's gonna be a rough road to make the playoffs, but it could happen.

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Old
12-05-2007, 08:45 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Checker View Post


It was time for that 3 games ago. I'm sure Murray will justify not playing him though. We need to keep Weight in the lineup

To me, (an outsider to the team, not from Stl) it seems Murray doesn't coach to win, he coaches not too lose.

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Old
12-06-2007, 05:14 PM
  #43
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This is a game just like the last Wings game they played like **** and they just have to move on and play better in Edmonton on Friday.

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Old
12-06-2007, 05:17 PM
  #44
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[QUOTE=PerryTurnbullfan;11491864]
Quote:
Originally Posted by St.Louis sports fan View Post
if you took the jersey off of Brewer and Wagner and had independent scouts watch 10 of their games this year and then ask 20 scouts who they thought was the 1st round pick was and who the undrafted free-agent was I'm sure it would be split pretty close.
QUOTE]

I disagree with this statement VERY much so. I think there is no doubt in anyone's mind who the most talented and skilled defenseman on the Blues is. That is definitely Brewer. Not even close. What a scout would tell you watching them is that once the Brewer kid matures and learns the game, he could be an all star in this league. No defenseman on the Blues has his talent, but all of them have more hockey sense.

The Blues biggest problem is that they have a surplus of 4-6 defenseman. They have 9 of them. I'm pretty much convinced now that Backman and Jackman aren't going to get any better. McKee and Salvy are what they are. EJ and Wagner will get better. I'm not convinced that Wagner will be much more than a 5 or 6 at this point. EJ has top 1-2 potential. Walker could be a 6. Woywitka and Polak will be 6s. If Brewer is a 4 on your team, then you have a really good team. If he is a 1 or 2, then I hope you have a bunch of 4-6 guys behind him. It's gonna be a rough road to make the playoffs, but it could happen.
Great post Turnbull, They do lack top end guys right now.

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Old
12-06-2007, 08:44 PM
  #45
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Even if they never turn out to be top-end? One step forward and two steps back. That's Brewer in a nutshell.

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