Even when Brodeurs age became an issue for him he led his team to the Cup final the very season that Luongo lost his job.
MAYBE Luongo has been better the last couple of years put together, but a decade is more than that... As a matter of fact, Luongos trip to the final and his starting job in the Olympics was'nt even in the decade we are now discussing.
Sigh. NJ severely undercounts shots, thus affecting save percentage
Yeah, I know. New Jersey fans only mention it every time someone types the word save percentage on HOH, so let's throw the baby out with the bath water, even though Brodeur's road save percentage was inferior to Luongo's road save percentage in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2007, and 2009. They tied in 2006. So really, Brodeur was only superior twice: 2000 and 2008, so that's something to hang your hat on, eh?
That's 3629 PPs against Luongo's teams for the decade, and 2686 for the Devils. That's 74% more!
That waaaay over-compensates for any deflation to Brodeur's save percentage based on shot undercounting.
That's 35% more, not 74%, and it most likely has less impact on Brodeur's SV% than the home under counting.
From an old thread:
2006-07 Brodeur: EV: 129 GA on 1758 SA; PP: 9 GA on 80 SA; PK: 33 GA on 344 SA
NJ spent 458:36 on the PK, we will raise that to the league leaders 762:02. 762:02/458:36 = 166.17%. PK SA go from 344 to 572. GA will go from 33 to 55.
NJ spent 617:43 on the PP, we will raise that to the league average 662:57. 662:57/617:43 = 107.32%. PP SA go from 80 to 86. GA will go from 9 to 10.
EV is a little more tricky, but I calculate that the changes in PP/PK time is equal to 1689:10 of the total 19304:49 NJ EV TOI. 17615:39/19304:49 = 91.25%. EV SA go from 1758 to 1605. GA will go from 129 to 118.
Total result is 12 more GA, GAA from 2.18 to 2.34, and 81 more SA (.852 SV%), with a drop in SV% of .0025.
T SA
T GA
T SV
T SV%
EV SA
EV GA
EV SV
EV SV%
PK SA
PK GA
PK SV
PK SV%
PP SA
PP GA
PP SV
PP SV%
2182
171
2011
.922
1758
129
1629
.927
344
33
311
.904
80
9
71
.888
2263
183
2080
.919
1605
118
1487
.926
572
55
517
.904
86
10
76
.884
That is a pretty big swing, but it is also taking NJ to the top of the PK TOI list, so it's about as large a swing as you can get.
Now for the shot under counting impact.
The league average SOG/60 for 2006-07: Home: 28.22 Road: 30.24 Dif: 2.02 or 7.16%.
Brodeur: Home: 25.47 Road: 30.30 Dif: 4.83 or 18.19%.
NHL 2010-11: Home: 29.15 Road: 30.88 Dif: 1.73 or 5.93%.
We'll take the 2.02 avg off Brodeur's 4.83 leaving 2.81, and then take off the difference between 10-11 and 06-07 of 0.29 for a final total of 2.52. We'll round down to 2 SOG/60 and drop the one home game where Brodeur only played half the game. This leaves 38 home game times 2 for 76 shots (It would be 77.5 shots if we used his 2325:27 playing time in the 38 games).
Now take the two totals from above and add 76 saves.
SA
GA
SV
SV%
SA
GA
SV
SV%
Dif
2182
171
2011
.922
2258
171
2087
.924
.0026
2263
183
2080
.919
2339
183
2156
.922
.0026
So a fairly conservative estimate of under counting has as large an impact as the max PK change made above (The 2nd .922 above is .0001 higher than the first). Giving NJ the average PK TOI would reduce the PK impact by about a 3rd.
Adding another 38 SOG for Brodeur's personal shot preventing skills would bump it to .923.
10's: Joe Malone
20's: Howie Morenz
30's: Eddie Shore
40's: Maurice Richard
50's: Gordie Howe
60's: Bobby Hull (hm: Beliveau)
70's: Bobby Orr (hm: Esposito, Lafleur)
80's: Wayne Gretzky
90's: Mario Lemieux (hm: Hasek, Jagr)
2000's: Nicklas Lidstrom
I agree with this almost entirely, except I would have Fred Taylor for the 10's.
Here's another set of criteria: players of the decade, starting at the midpoint of each. So, 2005-present, 1995-2004, 1985-1994, etc.
2005-present is probably either Crosby or Ovechkin. Would probably lean towards the latter. Could make a case for Lidstrom I suppose.
1995-2004, one has a solid case for either Jagr or Hasek. Sakic would definitely merit consideration.
1985-1994 is Gretzky, with Lemieux being a very strong second. Roy would also be in the mix.
1975-1984 is probably Gretzky again. Dionne has the edge on him in points by 17, but required 301 more games to do it. Insane.
1965-1974 is Orr.
After that my hockey knowledge sort of prevents me from making informed decisions, but I'd like to hear what other people think.
Here's another set of criteria: players of the decade, starting at the midpoint of each. So, 2005-present, 1995-2004, 1985-1994, etc.
2005-present is probably either Crosby or Ovechkin. Would probably lean towards the latter. Could make a case for Lidstrom I suppose.
1995-2004, one has a solid case for either Jagr or Hasek. Sakic would definitely merit consideration.
1985-1994 is Gretzky, with Lemieux being a very strong second. Roy would also be in the mix.
1975-1984 is probably Gretzky again. Dionne has the edge on him in points by 17, but required 301 more games to do it. Insane.
1965-1974 is Orr.
After that my hockey knowledge sort of prevents me from making informed decisions, but I'd like to hear what other people think.
2005-present: Definitely Crosby or Ovechkin.
1995-2004: Jagr, Hasek, or Sakic. Lidstrom just a bit behind.
1985-1994: Gretzky. Lemieux 2nd. Bourque and Roy can fight it out for third.
1975-1984: What about Guy Lafleur? All 6 years of his prime are captured in this time frame. Denis Potvin has to get some consideration, as well. I'd take both of them over Dionne for the time frame. Gretzky has to be in the mix, just because of his peak.
1965-1974: Bobby Orr
1955-1964: Jean Beliveau
1945-1954: Maurice Richard
Seems awfully strange not to have Howe or Hull, but those time frames match the primes of Richard and Beliveau almost exactly.
1935-1944: Eddie Shore, even though he didn't play the whole time frame
1925-1934: Howie Morenz
1915-1924: Frank Nighbor or Cyclone Taylor
1905-1914: Tommy Phillips, I think.
1895-1904: Russel Bowie or Hod Stuart probably, even though they are more 1900s guys. Dan Bain for the late 1890s.
Yeah, I only mentioned Dionne because he has the most points (with Gretzky 2nd) in that stretch of ten years. I don't see how one can give it to Lafleur over Gretzky, though. Gretzky outscored him by 170 points in 203 less games, and while Lafleur usually makes up lost ground on other players based on his playoff performances, he doesn't on Gretzky.
Who cares if Lidstrom got a bunch of Norris awards he didn't deserve. Lidstrom shouldn't even be top 3 player of the decade.
LOL.. just thought this^^^was hilarious
But anyways, for the rational people, Lidstrom has more Norrises than Brodeur has Vezinas in the decade plus a Conn Smythe and a Cup after the lockout, which I think is noteworthy at the very least. And I think it's hard to argue that a Vezina isn't easier to win than a Norris, considering the competition for a Vezina is about 30 starting goalies compared to a couple hundred defensemen for the Norris
