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This team is flawed and cannot win a Cup as currently constructed. (merged)

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Old
12-07-2007, 11:45 AM
  #51
bumrusherer
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I disagree, I think this team has all the pieces to win the Cup. They have just started slowly, that is all.

Sooner or later, the offense will start to properly click and we'll be flying.


Dont forget, we are right there in the division race and our best skill players have yet to get on a hot streak.


Be patient. I know its hard to do these days ( MTV, mircorwave culture and all that ). But be patient.

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12-07-2007, 11:48 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by pruuu View Post
I didn't like you at first but I am starting to agree with you now. We lost two games. Yes we are streaky but the season is still very very young. Adventually something will change and if it doesn't im sure we will see some changes. There was too much hype surrounding this team. Look at the flyers ( I hate them). They had alot of hype too and they are streaky as well. Yes we have more high end players but as we see that doesn't mean ****. We are in a battle for the top of the division after having a terrible start (much worse then we are playing now). They picked it up and lost it again. Lets see how it goes tonight vs Atlanta. They are a low quality team IMO and if we can't handle them hopefully lines will be shufffled around. It took Renny a long ass time to figure out the proper pp units and he found them now (kinda) so mabye he needs another kick in the ass to get that top line how it should be with Jagr, Drury and Straka moving Dubinsky to the third line with players of his caliber not those playing on a much higher level.


I've been known to rub people the wrong way at first. My apologies. I think people have been spoiled with the fact that this team got off to a good start even though they weren't scoring goals. Like I said, this is the first time we've lost two straight games in regulation all season. What did people expect? This not to happen? Are we playing well right now? Absolutley not but it's no reason to think we won't get it together and start playing well again.

And MetalChick...Yashin? Yashin!??! Man...losing streaks do funny things to people.

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12-07-2007, 12:00 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
With Mara back, and Malik on the 3rd pair (and Struds how you mentioned), I am fine with the defense. It's not great but it is servicable to good. But I was mostly commenting on the team defense (including The King), which has been a strength most of the season and I think can remain so
We've got the best defense in the NHL. It may not speak for the league, but our Ds are scored on less then anyone else and they have scored more goals then the rest.

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12-07-2007, 12:04 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
We've got the best defense in the NHL. It may not speak for the league, but our Ds are scored on less then anyone else and they have scored more goals then the rest.
We do but I think the #'s are skewed a little b/c of Lundy's amazing start. But overall I think you are correct that we do have one of the best D's.

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12-07-2007, 12:07 PM
  #55
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Could the Rangers use an offensive defenseman?Sure but so can the majority of the teams in the NHL.

Renney doesn't like Prucha?


Last edited by RangerBoy: 12-07-2007 at 01:31 PM.
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12-07-2007, 12:07 PM
  #56
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94...

unfortunately this is a number that's impossible to calculate, but one needs to decide how much Lundqvist accounts for the GAA, and how much the defesne accounts for the GAA. I think you're a bit biased against Lundqvist and a bit biased towards defensemen in general, so no offense, but I know your answer. Me, I think if Lundqvist doesn't have his 'A' game going, and if the forwards aren't carrying a lot of the play, the defensive flaws show and the story's a bit different.

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12-07-2007, 12:22 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
We do but I think the #'s are skewed a little b/c of Lundy's amazing start. But overall I think you are correct that we do have one of the best D's.
You don't have to have best defensemen to have the best defense. Rangers had for a while the very best players in the world yet failed to make a playoffs all those years. I do not find Ludqvist start spectacular. Good solid play. The last two games were below the NHL level.
I blame lack of offense on GM who seem not be able to comprehend what is that his coaching staff is doing and keeps supplying the players that have no place on this team. Last year he brought us Hall, Ward, Dupui, Isbister and Cuillen. All failed to make roster on this year team. On the other hand, all players that Shoenfield supplied (with Dawes not being neither exception nor proof) did well over two season period. Big acquisitions of Slats - Shanny, Gomez, Drury, wile taking 20 million of cap space do not contribute more then the rookie simply because they do not fit current system well.

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12-07-2007, 12:24 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
unfortunately this is a number that's impossible to calculate, but one needs to decide how much Lundqvist accounts for the GAA, and how much the defesne accounts for the GAA. I think you're a bit biased against Lundqvist and a bit biased towards defensemen in general, so no offense, but I know your answer. Me, I think if Lundqvist doesn't have his 'A' game going, and if the forwards aren't carrying a lot of the play, the defensive flaws show and the story's a bit different.
Henke do not have B game. It is either A or F. He might show his A+ game. I would never ask for such, except come playoff time.

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12-07-2007, 12:40 PM
  #59
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We have never had the best defense in the league, while taking away the goaltender. Detroit for example, anyone? They allow a ridiculously low amount of shots against, season after season.

As for Lundqvist either being A or F in his game, geesh. Talk about polarity. What sort of grade do you have left then if Lundqvist would let in the first shots that he should have 98/100 times, while the defense would be working? Z?

Lundqvist is stopping the initial shots that he should have, is not making the key saves and is struggling with the rebounds. I would call this his B or C game.

As for if this team is flawed, I would say yes. Looking at salaries is one way of looking how teams are constructed. Where do GM:s put the most gunpowder? While overpaid albatrosses might misform us, it's still an indication of how teams are built. The fact is still, Rangers are putting a very high amount of money at forwards ($35 million) and a really low amount of money at the defensemen ($10 million). Compare this with which teams I consider Stanley Cup frontrunners:
Ottawa: 22/17
Detroit: 21/19
Anaheim: 19/17

We have the highest forward salaries in the entire league, but is last in goals scored. We also have among the cheapest defensemen in the entire league and are in the top in goals against.

Summarizing, we have too few quality defensemen on this team to win a cup. We're not good enough to beat any of the three teams above in a 7 game series. I would love to be proven wrong, but I'm a realist.


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12-07-2007, 12:42 PM
  #60
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Lundqvist had his B game going...

through December last season - he played well, but not great. It wasn't F, and it surely wasn't A. When he turned it to A, the team turned around.

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Old
12-07-2007, 01:05 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
There's no smiling allowed in this thread. This is the, "we lost two games, our season is over, let's blow the team up" thread. If you'd like to smile please do so somewhere else as there is not enough room for it here. Thanks in advance.
Seriously right. Other teams fans must be laughing when they see this thread. The Rangers are still a deadly team.

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12-07-2007, 01:23 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
You don't have to have best defensemen to have the best defense. Rangers had for a while the very best players in the world yet failed to make a playoffs all those years. I do not find Ludqvist start spectacular. Good solid play. The last two games were below the NHL level.
I blame lack of offense on GM who seem not be able to comprehend what is that his coaching staff is doing and keeps supplying the players that have no place on this team. Last year he brought us Hall, Ward, Dupui, Isbister and Cuillen. All failed to make roster on this year team. On the other hand, all players that Shoenfield supplied (with Dawes not being neither exception nor proof) did well over two season period. Big acquisitions of Slats - Shanny, Gomez, Drury, wile taking 20 million of cap space do not contribute more then the rookie simply because they do not fit current system well.
I strongly agree with this sentiment.

I see this team as a rather funny mix of what Renney and Schoenfeld are trying to do (Prucha,Dubinsky,Callahan,Lundqvist,Tyutin,Staal) and what stupid Sather is trying to do (Shanahan, Malik, Mara, etc). I love Dubinsky but I also feel that him centering the 1st line is ridiculous since then Drury is on the 3rd line and not earning his pay. I think Gomez can center Jagr well with Avery doing the dirty work on that line.

What will it take for this team to win the Cup?

1. Sather shuts up and lets Renney and Schoenfeld totally run the show
2. We do not re-sign Shany. We get rid of Straka and Malik and Mara.

If we have lines similar to this next season, we can win the Cup:
Avery - Gomez - Jagr
Prucha - Drury - Callahan
Dawes - Dubinsky - Anisimov/Cherepanov
Hollweg - Betts - Hossa

Tyutin - Girardi
Staal - Rozsival
Sanguinetti -Strudwick/FA


Notes:
Orr - will be the 13th forward in case we need toughness...I just dont think he should play too much
Defense - We could use a good free agent to play with Sanguinetti on the 3rd pair. Strudwick wont cut it.

So basically without Malik, Mara, Straka, Shany, our really only old guy would be Jagr and he still has some life left in him. I trully feel that 2nd line, which is playing well now, can play even better with more ice time. I think Callahan can easily score 20 goals with more ice time, so can Prucha. Drury can get better too. The 3rd line would be excellent with Anisimov or Cherepanov in the mix.

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12-07-2007, 01:42 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by 2forsbergaura1 View Post
I strongly agree with this sentiment.

I love Dubinsky but I also feel that him centering the 1st line is ridiculous since then Drury is on the 3rd line and not earning his pay. I think Gomez can center Jagr well with Avery doing the dirty work on that line.
Dubi is the only center that has shown he can play w/ Jagr. Gomez would be the worst choice. It failed the first time it will fail again. Also on no team should Avery be on the 1st line. He's lucky to be on our second line. Ideally he is a third line player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2forsbergaura1 View Post
What will it take for this team to win the Cup?

1. Sather shuts up and lets Renney and Schoenfeld totally run the show.
2. We do not re-sign Shany. We get rid of Straka and Malik and Mara.
Shanny and Straks will retire. But if Straks wants to stay for less money resign him b/c he isn't that bad and he helps Jagr who will still be there. If Mara will stay for less money re-sign him as well on a 1 yr or 2 yr contract as he still has value.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2forsbergaura1 View Post
If we have lines similar to this next season, we can win the Cup:
Avery - Gomez - Jagr
Gomez and Jagr play different styles. THIS WILL NEVER WORK. Jagr himself said it. Avery should never be on a first line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2forsbergaura1 View Post
Prucha - Drury - Callahan
This line can't score this year what makes you think they can score next year. We really won't put up more than 1 goal per game if this is our second line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2forsbergaura1 View Post
Dawes - Dubinsky - Anisimov/Cherepanov
I'm not sold on Dawes. I'm not sure that either of the two Russians will be ready for the NHL by next year. Chery might need a little time to adapt. Ani has never played wing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2forsbergaura1 View Post
Hollweg - Betts - Hossa
Another line w/ no scoring and not even a person who can fight. Excellent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2forsbergaura1 View Post
Tyutin - Girardi
Staal - Rozsival
Sanguinetti -Strudwick/FA
Don't know if Sangs will be ready yet. What happened to Baranka and Sauer and Liffiton. They will probably be more ready.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2forsbergaura1 View Post
Notes:
Orr - will be the 13th forward in case we need toughness...I just dont think he should play too much
Defense - We could use a good free agent to play with Sanguinetti on the 3rd pair. Strudwick wont cut it.

So basically without Malik, Mara, Straka, Shany, our really only old guy would be Jagr and he still has some life left in him. I trully feel that 2nd line, which is playing well now, can play even better with more ice time. I think Callahan can easily score 20 goals with more ice time, so can Prucha. Drury can get better too. The 3rd line would be excellent with Anisimov or Cherepanov in the mix.
Excellent so now we will have the smallest, weakest team in Hockey. A bunch of midgets running around who still can't score. If this is the team for next year it will be a very very very long season. But we should end up getting Tavares w/ the #1 pick. So i guess it won't be too bad in the end.

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12-07-2007, 01:54 PM
  #64
Evgeny Oliker
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
Dubi is the only center that has shown he can play w/ Jagr. Gomez would be the worst choice. It failed the first time it will fail again. Also on no team should Avery be on the 1st line. He's lucky to be on our second line. Ideally he is a third line player.


Shanny and Straks will retire. But if Straks wants to stay for less money resign him b/c he isn't that bad and he helps Jagr who will still be there. If Mara will stay for less money re-sign him as well on a 1 yr or 2 yr contract as he still has value.



Gomez and Jagr play different styles. THIS WILL NEVER WORK. Jagr himself said it. Avery should never be on a first line.



This line can't score this year what makes you think they can score next year. We really won't put up more than 1 goal per game if this is our second line.



I'm not sold on Dawes. I'm not sure that either of the two Russians will be ready for the NHL by next year. Chery might need a little time to adapt. Ani has never played wing.



Another line w/ no scoring and not even a person who can fight. Excellent.


Don't know if Sangs will be ready yet. What happened to Baranka and Sauer and Liffiton. They will probably be more ready.



Excellent so now we will have the smallest, weakest team in Hockey. A bunch of midgets running around who still can't score. If this is the team for next year it will be a very very very long season. But we should end up getting Tavares w/ the #1 pick. So i guess it won't be too bad in the end.
I disagree with you on a lot of points, so let me try to summarize:

1. Avery - he is NOT a 3rd liner and that is the mistake that LA made in their thinking when they traded him. Avery is a very good 2nd liner who can play on the 1st line if need be. He will put up 50-60 points when healthy.

2. Gomez vs. Dubinsky - Gomez CAN play with Jagr...thats not the issue. The issue is that for them to play well together, you need the 3rd player on that line to be someone who can be tough and dig the puck out and go in the corners. So lets say Gomez,Jagr,Hossa or Gomez,Jagr,Straka will NOT work, and thats why Gomez and Jagr hasnt worked yet. Put Avery or someone like Avery on with Gomez and Jagr and then you have something!
Dubinsky is a great hard-working player BUT he does not have the necessary passing skills to consistently connect with Jagr...Gomez does. Even Drury is a better option than Dubinsky.

3. Straka , Mara- I would not keep either even for a million each since they are just blocking our youth from playing.

4. Prucha - Drury - Callahan - not sure which game you were watching last night but this was our BEST line by far. Sure, Tyutin and Girardi scored, but both goals were off plays by this line. Drury ended up with 2 assists. Callahan and Prucha played hard and could have ended up with some points too...eventually they will. This line needs more minutes, thats all.

5. Dawes - Dubinsky - Anisimov/Cherepanov
This is not meant to be a top line. They will score enough for a 3rd line. Cherepanov is probably not ready, but Anisimov should be. Dawes is a pure goal-scorer, he wont do much else, but he will score.

6. Hollweg - Betts - Hossa
Again, NOT a scoring line, but a 4th line meant to check.

7. Baranka,Saur, Liffiton - agreed, any of them over Strudwick. Do you honestly think that Sather would be ok with 2 rookies on one pairing though? i mean one of those 3 and Sanguinetti...sounds great, but Sather would not allow it, he's an idiot.

In general, I feel you are too pessimistic about what these lines can do...so is Sather. With that kind of pessimism, we will have Shany playing for us for another 10 years

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12-07-2007, 02:09 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by 2forsbergaura1 View Post
I disagree with you on a lot of points, so let me try to summarize:

1. Avery - he is NOT a 3rd liner and that is the mistake that LA made in their thinking when they traded him. Avery is a very good 2nd liner who can play on the 1st line if need be. He will put up 50-60 points when healthy.
50-60 points in a year is HORRIBLE for a 1st liner. A first line player should have 80 plus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2forsbergaura1 View Post
2. Gomez vs. Dubinsky - Gomez CAN play with Jagr...thats not the issue. The issue is that for them to play well together, you need the 3rd player on that line to be someone who can be tough and dig the puck out and go in the corners. So lets say Gomez,Jagr,Hossa or Gomez,Jagr,Straka will NOT work, and thats why Gomez and Jagr hasnt worked yet. Put Avery or someone like Avery on with Gomez and Jagr and then you have something!
Dubinsky is a great hard-working player BUT he does not have the necessary passing skills to consistently connect with Jagr...Gomez does. Even Drury is a better option than Dubinsky.
Jagr already said he doesn't mesh w/ gomez in an interview a week or so ago. They looked awful together earlier in the season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2forsbergaura1 View Post
3. Straka , Mara- I would not keep either even for a million each since they are just blocking our youth from playing.
Straka will keep Jagr happy. A happy Jagr= a good Jagr. Mara hasn't played badly at all this year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2forsbergaura1 View Post
4. Prucha - Drury - Callahan - not sure which game you were watching last night but this was our BEST line by far. Sure, Tyutin and Girardi scored, but both goals were off plays by this line. Drury ended up with 2 assists. Callahan and Prucha played hard and could have ended up with some points too...eventually they will. This line needs more minutes, thats all.
Obviously you didn't watch the game. First off both goals were were on the PP. Second off this isn't a line in on the PP. The line is Gomez, Drury, Shanny Girardi, Tyutin. That's the line that scored both goals. Prucha is on Jagrs PP line while Cally doesn't play the PP.

Thirdly (if thats even a word) this line hasn't produced jack yet, and they won't b/c there is no size on this line. they get pushed around way to easily. Also there is no Playmaker on this line. Drury isn't a playmaker he is a finisher.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2forsbergaura1 View Post
5. Dawes - Dubinsky - Anisimov/Cherepanov
This is not meant to be a top line. They will score enough for a 3rd line. Cherepanov is probably not ready, but Anisimov should be. Dawes is a pure goal-scorer, he wont do much else, but he will score.
How do you know that Ani or Chery are ready? Ani has never played a wing. There is also absolutely no defensive responsibility on this line. They will be a minus 50 by the end of the year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2forsbergaura1 View Post
6. Hollweg - Betts - Hossa
Again, NOT a scoring line, but a 4th line meant to check.
Ok. Replace Hollweg w/ Orr b/c can fight and stand up for players and doesn't take dumb penalties like hollywood.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2forsbergaura1 View Post
7. Baranka,Saur, Liffiton - agreed, any of them over Strudwick. Do you honestly think that Sather would be ok with 2 rookies on one pairing though? i mean one of those 3 and Sanguinetti...sounds great, but Sather would not allow it, he's an idiot.
How do you know Sangs will be ready? Offensively maybe but he might not be ready defensively (or strong enough). That's why I think you keep Mara for a year. And let Baranka take the other place. You know there will be injuries and time to call up Sangs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2forsbergaura1 View Post
In general, I feel you are too pessimistic about what these lines can do...so is Sather. With that kind of pessimism, we will have Shany playing for us for another 10 years
No Shanny should (hopefully) retire. If you read other posts I have made it shows that I cant stand him being on this team. And im not being pessimistic i am being realistic.

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12-07-2007, 02:17 PM
  #66
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I have to question the coaching when a team gets stomped one night and then shows up the next game only to play even worse.

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12-07-2007, 02:29 PM
  #67
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I am still happy!

We lost a game - 2nd in a row. 16 shots on net - bad night at the office.

We'll snap out of it.

Having said that the defensive coverage was atrocious.

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12-07-2007, 02:30 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
50-60 points in a year is HORRIBLE for a 1st liner. A first line player should have 80 plus.



Jagr already said he doesn't mesh w/ gomez in an interview a week or so ago. They looked awful together earlier in the season.

Straka will keep Jagr happy. A happy Jagr= a good Jagr. Mara hasn't played badly at all this year.



Obviously you didn't watch the game. First off both goals were were on the PP. Second off this isn't a line in on the PP. The line is Gomez, Drury, Shanny Girardi, Tyutin. That's the line that scored both goals. Prucha is on Jagrs PP line while Cally doesn't play the PP.

Thirdly (if thats even a word) this line hasn't produced jack yet, and they won't b/c there is no size on this line. they get pushed around way to easily. Also there is no Playmaker on this line. Drury isn't a playmaker he is a finisher.



How do you know that Ani or Chery are ready? Ani has never played a wing. There is also absolutely no defensive responsibility on this line. They will be a minus 50 by the end of the year.

Ok. Replace Hollweg w/ Orr b/c can fight and stand up for players and doesn't take dumb penalties like hollywood.

How do you know Sangs will be ready? Offensively maybe but he might not be ready defensively (or strong enough). That's why I think you keep Mara for a year. And let Baranka take the other place. You know there will be injuries and time to call up Sangs.


No Shanny should (hopefully) retire. If you read other posts I have made it shows that I cant stand him being on this team. And im not being pessimistic i am being realistic.

Geez, you really do sound like Sather with this whole a happy Jagr is a good Jagr bs! A true leader should be able to and be willing to play with ANY player. Jagr will always be considered a diva until he is willing to play with anyone and not sulk like a little baby!

Jagr - can play with Gomez and he can play with Drury...its just a matter of finding the right 3rd guy for that line.

Avery - 60 points and a ton of pims and his ability to create space is what is needed on that 1st line. Not all 1st lines are stacked with offensive dynamos. We sucked last night because Avery wasnt playing, that was part of it.

Drury line - I know the PP units. Gomez has 2 assists, yes. Still , Drury and Callahan show good chemistry and Prucha is decent on that line. The new NHL is NOT about size, its more about skill. Also, Callahan is tough as nails and Drury does not back down either.

Its impossible to know which young players willl be ready. It is possible to know for a fact that Mara and Malik suck NOW. Hows that for u? So I'd rather see a young guy who is half ready play...or a free agent who is more solid than Mara and Malik in his own zone.

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12-07-2007, 02:37 PM
  #69
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Rags..

Jagr has his lowest output per game in years. Dubi's not lighting the world on fire. I'm not sure why you would say he's 'worked', and why he's worked over the others. Gomez played a few games. Drury played a couple games. Dubi's played the rest and the results have left a lot to be desired, while Gomez found scoring elsewhere. I don't think any centerman has worked with Jagr, and that includes Dubi, and I can't sit here and tell you had Gomez played with Jagr from day 1, uninterrupted, that the results would be better or worse (although they really cannot be worse).

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12-07-2007, 02:40 PM
  #70
Evgeny Oliker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
Jagr has his lowest output per game in years. Dubi's not lighting the world on fire. I'm not sure why you would say he's 'worked', and why he's worked over the others. Gomez played a few games. Drury played a couple games. Dubi's played the rest and the results have left a lot to be desired, while Gomez found scoring elsewhere. I don't think any centerman has worked with Jagr, and that includes Dubi, and I can't sit here and tell you had Gomez played with Jagr from day 1, uninterrupted, that the results would be better or worse (although they really cannot be worse).

All VERY true. I think that everyone, including the coaching staff, have focused too much on finding the right centerman for Jagr. The fix can be more about finding the right 2nd winger on the line with Jagr. I noticed whenever Jagr and Avery are on the ice together, they CLICK. Avery makes space for Jagr by going to the net...Jagr shoots, Avery gets rebounds. Avery is also a very underrated passer and tends to find Jagr easily.

So, no one wants to try Avery with Jagr and Gomez or Drury...but that may work. Try it for a few weeks and see what happens...like Fletch said, cant be worse than Dubinsky and Jagr now.

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Old
12-07-2007, 02:46 PM
  #71
DontStepanMe
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Originally Posted by 2forsbergaura1 View Post
Geez, you really do sound like Sather with this whole a happy Jagr is a good Jagr bs! A true leader should be able to and be willing to play with ANY player. Jagr will always be considered a diva until he is willing to play with anyone and not sulk like a little baby!

Jagr - can play with Gomez and he can play with Drury...its just a matter of finding the right 3rd guy for that line.
You're missing a key part right here. Jagr has already publicly stated that there is no chemistry between him and Gomez. That they both like to hold on to the puck and try to make a play and that they will not be good linemates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2forsbergaura1 View Post
Avery - 60 points and a ton of pims and his ability to create space is what is needed on that 1st line. Not all 1st lines are stacked with offensive dynamos. We sucked last night because Avery wasnt playing, that was part of it.
And what was the reason we played our two best games of the year w/o Avery. That being the wins over Ottawa and NYI. Just curious. It isnt Avery alone that makes or breaks this team. He is not a first line player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2forsbergaura1 View Post
Drury line - I know the PP units. Gomez has 2 assists, yes. Still , Drury and Callahan show good chemistry and Prucha is decent on that line. The new NHL is NOT about size, its more about skill. Also, Callahan is tough as nails and Drury does not back down either.
You obviously didn't know the PP lines because you thought Cally and Prucha were on for the goals. They weren't though. It's kinda hard to argue about some size when Prucha is constantly knocked down b/c he is so diminutive. Plus you never tried answer the question of who the playmaker is. You have three finishers but no passer or playmaker. Also you haven't answered why they weren't scoring at all this year. They are our third line this year and not scoring. They are playing against other teams' third lines and not scoring. You want them to go against 2nd and first lines and not score as well. Fine. In all actuality I don't think Prucha will even be on the team next year. I think he will be traded beforehand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2forsbergaura1 View Post
Its impossible to know which young players willl be ready. It is possible to know for a fact that Mara and Malik suck NOW. Hows that for u? So I'd rather see a young guy who is half ready play...or a free agent who is more solid than Mara and Malik in his own zone.
Correct about knowing who will be ready. but AA has yet to light up the AHL (and he's not a winger), and Chery hasn't set foot on NA land. Sangs hasn't played against NHLers yet. What ever happened to true wingers that we have Bourret, Moore, Korps. they might all be more ready. But I still woulnd't want to go for a team that is almost all under 25. You need some vets there to teach. And what has Mara done this year that has been so bad?

What about Girardi who for the last two weeks has been awful?

Where is a PF on this team that will drive to the net or stand in front of the net consistently?

The team is just too small. You don't need prucha and dawes on the team they are basically the same player. In fact i wish we would trade them both b/c they are both overatted and too small. We have better prospects, and neither is good defensively, or can PK.

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12-07-2007, 02:48 PM
  #72
JayMan82
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Do you guys think it would be crazy to try these lines???

Straka - Anisimov - Jagr
Drury - Gomez - Shanahan
Prucha - Dubinsky - Callahan
HBO

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Old
12-07-2007, 02:56 PM
  #73
Nich
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayMan82 View Post
Do you guys think it would be crazy to try these lines???

Straka - Anisimov - Jagr
Drury - Gomez - Shanahan
Prucha - Dubinsky - Callahan
HBO
yes

ani is not there yet i say try this

shanny - gomez - jagr
straka - drury - callahan
dawes - dubi - prucha
hossa - blair - orr

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Old
12-07-2007, 02:57 PM
  #74
Evgeny Oliker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
You're missing a key part right here. Jagr has already publicly stated that there is no chemistry between him and Gomez. That they both like to hold on to the puck and try to make a play and that they will not be good linemates.



And what was the reason we played our two best games of the year w/o Avery. That being the wins over Ottawa and NYI. Just curious. It isnt Avery alone that makes or breaks this team. He is not a first line player.

You obviously didn't know the PP lines because you thought Cally and Prucha were on for the goals. They weren't though. It's kinda hard to argue about some size when Prucha is constantly knocked down b/c he is so diminutive. Plus you never tried answer the question of who the playmaker is. You have three finishers but no passer or playmaker. Also you haven't answered why they weren't scoring at all this year. They are our third line this year and not scoring. They are playing against other teams' third lines and not scoring. You want them to go against 2nd and first lines and not score as well. Fine. In all actuality I don't think Prucha will even be on the team next year. I think he will be traded beforehand.

Correct about knowing who will be ready. but AA has yet to light up the AHL (and he's not a winger), and Chery hasn't set foot on NA land. Sangs hasn't played against NHLers yet. What ever happened to true wingers that we have Bourret, Moore, Korps. they might all be more ready. But I still woulnd't want to go for a team that is almost all under 25. You need some vets there to teach. And what has Mara done this year that has been so bad?

What about Girardi who for the last two weeks has been awful?

Where is a PF on this team that will drive to the net or stand in front of the net consistently?

The team is just too small. You don't need prucha and dawes on the team they are basically the same player. In fact i wish we would trade them both b/c they are both overatted and too small. We have better prospects, and neither is good defensively, or can PK.

1. Jagr - I again dont give a rats ass who he likes to play with. The whole reason why we have Straka for so long is because Jagr likes him. So when Straka is 45, we should keep him since Jagr likes him???? Jagr can learn to play with others, if he stops being a prima donna.

2. Avery - Plenty of teams have 2 stars and then a gritty guy on their first lines. Do you think that Sundin,Poni, and Antropov is an all-star line? Antropov and Sundin are great, but Poni is great to play the boards really. That is what Avery does, and he does it VERY well and still puts up some decent numbers.

3. PP lines - I did know the PP lines. My point was not about the PP lines clicking. My point was that a lot of the offense that we generated last night was from the Prucha-Drury-Callahan line. Drury was the only one of the 3 to get points, but Callahan and Prucha looked good too. The other lines did NOTHING in comparison.

4. Girardi - yes, he is horrible, after all, a dman who plays amazing for 95% of the games cannot be allowed to have a few bad games right? come on! this is how Sather thinks EXACTLY, if a young guy has a few bad games, he SUCKS, right?

5. Power Forwards - here they are:
Dubinsky
Anisimov
Jessiman

If you get rid of old farts like Shany and Straka, those guys might actually get to play!

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Old
12-07-2007, 02:57 PM
  #75
DontStepanMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
Jagr has his lowest output per game in years. Dubi's not lighting the world on fire. I'm not sure why you would say he's 'worked', and why he's worked over the others. Gomez played a few games. Drury played a couple games. Dubi's played the rest and the results have left a lot to be desired, while Gomez found scoring elsewhere. I don't think any centerman has worked with Jagr, and that includes Dubi, and I can't sit here and tell you had Gomez played with Jagr from day 1, uninterrupted, that the results would be better or worse (although they really cannot be worse).
But why would Jagr state that he likes playing w/ Dubi, and doesn't w/ Gomez. During the interview he said something to the effect that him and Drury just didn't have enough time together.

So yeah i would try Drury, but do you really want a third line of Pruchs-Dubi-Cally. That's horrible defensively, and they still won't score probably. There needs to be some trades.

Sather: Hello Toronto? We want Sundin. Take three prospects (except staal, chery) and a 2nd rounder. oh yeah and Malik. I know, I know he isn't that good. But we need to get some salary space for Sundin. Still no. hmm.... I'll buy you a new bike as well. Ok great deal.

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