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A good read from "The Forth Period" re: Brad Richards and Montreal

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Old
12-08-2007, 01:08 PM
  #76
Agnostic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats NAslund View Post
The article talks about Montreal is in interested in trading Huet in a deal for Richards. Also mentions how Dallas is rumored to be offering Turco for St-Louis. In the same article they Feaster has no intention of moving Lecavalier.

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/tbl071208.html

What's a better deal for Tampa Bay

Turco in a deal for St-Louis

or

Huet in a deal for Richards who make 7.8 million

Personally if Tampa is looking to shed salary the Montreal deal seems more likely.
Huet makes less then Turco and Richards makes more then St-Louis

Discuss

Dreger only confirmed that Dallas and TB are discussing the topic of Martin St. Louis due to keen interest on the Dallas side.

The rest is spinning out of control from that.

If anything comes about for Montreal it would more likely look like a Dallas package to get St. Louis followed by their acquisition of Huet to fill the goaltender spot

2 East-West transactions .

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Old
12-08-2007, 01:09 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Komisarek_freak View Post
I would do a Huet-Ryder-Plekanec for Richards. Brad can provide offence, plays the point on the PP and he's a tremendous PKer.

Richards>>> Plekanec

But of course, we're on HF, so the young guns are worth a lot more than established players. How do you want to trade for great players if you don't give valuable players in return? Richards would be our #1 center and he would be a great upgrade on Plekanec. The problem is we don't give enough salary to fit him under the salary cap.
A slight overpayment...LOL remove Pleks and add Grabs and a pick from Tampa

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Old
12-08-2007, 01:09 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Krootcho View Post
We could call him Rockets Richards
Yeah, if we put him center between Latendresse and Smolinski he would definatly look like a rocket

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Old
12-08-2007, 01:18 PM
  #79
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If this happens I'll laugh my ass at all the habs proposal critics who think that Huet and Ryder offer no return cuz of their UFA status....some how I doubt it will happen tho.

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Old
12-08-2007, 01:20 PM
  #80
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Price For Lecavalier

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Old
12-08-2007, 01:22 PM
  #81
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just thinking out loud.

if it was just Huet + Ryder then...

Higgins-Richards-Kosty
Lats-Koivu-Kovalev
Smoke-Plecks-Dandenault
Laps-Chips-Kosto/Begin

mmmmm I like.

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Old
12-08-2007, 01:25 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Habs10Habs View Post
Honestly if I'm the Tampa GM and Gainey calls me with an offer of Huet/Ryder for Richards, I laugh in his face and hang up the phone. Sit and laugh in my chair for 5 minutes, then call BG back and start laughing at him all over again.

IMO I think we would have to give up Huet/Pleks/good prospect for Richards. Then if it's possible send Smokes to Hamilton to clear more salary cap.
True. TB want to improve with a trade, a point rarely thought about here.

What's important here is that a story ( Dreger seems adament that his source is good) has placed TB in the talking stages of trading one of their 3 big forwards. That will undoudtedly start other phone calls to be placed.

I don't think Gainey wants to get into that auction.

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Old
12-08-2007, 01:29 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyF3ind View Post
just thinking out loud.

if it was just Huet + Ryder then...

Higgins-Richards-Kosty
Lats-Koivu-Kovalev
Smoke-Plecks-Dandenault
Laps-Chips-Kosto/Begin

mmmmm I like.
Bleh, 2nd and 3rd lines are dreadful.

Higgins-Richards-Koivu
Kosty-Plecks-Kovalev
Lats -Chips-Dandy
Kosto -Laps-Streit

(Lets forget about Smo and Begin for a while.)

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Old
12-08-2007, 01:43 PM
  #84
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Not sure Gainey would take that huge salary. Richards, IMO, is a bit overrated. He did one 91 pts season in 05/06 (don't expect him to do this here) and the rest of his career he's below 80 pts and he played with Lecavalier and St.Louis all his career, maybe not always on the same line, but on the PP at least. I know his strong point is not only offense because he is a versatile player, but for this salary, I'd rather take someone who scores a lot of goals or is a hell of a playmaker. Plekanec and Higgins, and even Koivu can do good on the PK and they proved it last season. Our powerplay is first in the league this season, so I don't think an upgrade is needed (it's just in a slump right now...the whole team is)

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Old
12-08-2007, 01:49 PM
  #85
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Two UFA's for Richards? Doesn't make sense for the Bolts, plus if anything a Centre like Richards would be the ideal person to play with Ryder as well. I would like to see Koivu, Richards and Plekanec as our offensive centres and Chip as our 4th line defensive centre. To get Richards you could offer Huet, but they need D...so a highend prospect on D or a top 4 Dman would be going along with a 1st or a high end prospect to Tampa for Richards.

Richards to Montreal

Huet, Grabovski, Valentenko and Gorges and/or Streit to Tampa Bay (Timmins wouldn't want to deal a 1st and may have some say into Valentenko as well)

Valentenko I would hate to lose, but for the cost of Richards and with Emelin, McDonagh, Fischer, Carle, Weber and Subban all looking like good picks we can afford to trade a Dman like Valentenko.

O'Bryne looks like a lock to play awhile, and a fulltimer next season. Markov and Hammer are in long term deals and Kommy will be signed long term as well. Brisebois is on a one year, Cube and Dandy have 1 more on their contracts I believe after this season (Dandy maybe 2, could be bought out though or traded/waived next season) and Gorges will be given an opportunity to play unless dealt as well.

Higgins - Koivu - Sergei Kosts (call him up)
Kosts - Pleks - Kovalev
Latendresse - Richards - Ryder
Lapierre - Chipchura - Begin/Kostopoulos

*Waive Smolinski

Kommy - Markov
Hammer - O'Bryne
Cube - Dandy/Brisebois (Hate these 3 for a pair, but the others are great combos)

* Waive Brisebois possibly and call up Cote or Bouchard.

Price
Halak

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Old
12-08-2007, 01:53 PM
  #86
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no trading koivu, hate that idea, absolutely not, it makes you look like a chump when you post that on here

brad richards is too expensive IMO...that's the big thing, and he hasn't been real stellar this year

ryder and huet are already gone at the end of the season in a lot of people's eyes, and it's probably going to happen,

however, gainey seems like the type who will have patience, wait and see how ryder pans out in his slump

obviously we have goalie depth

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Old
12-08-2007, 02:01 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
Two UFA's for Richards? Doesn't make sense for the Bolts, plus if anything a Centre like Richards would be the ideal person to play with Ryder as well. I would like to see Koivu, Richards and Plekanec as our offensive centres and Chip as our 4th line defensive centre. To get Richards you could offer Huet, but they need D...so a highend prospect on D or a top 4 Dman would be going along with a 1st or a high end prospect to Tampa for Richards.

Richards to Montreal

Huet, Grabovski, Valentenko and Gorges and/or Streit to Tampa Bay (Timmins wouldn't want to deal a 1st and may have some say into Valentenko as well)

Valentenko I would hate to lose, but for the cost of Richards and with Emelin, McDonagh, Fischer, Carle, Weber and Subban all looking like good picks we can afford to trade a Dman like Valentenko.

O'Bryne looks like a lock to play awhile, and a fulltimer next season. Markov and Hammer are in long term deals and Kommy will be signed long term as well. Brisebois is on a one year, Cube and Dandy have 1 more on their contracts I believe after this season (Dandy maybe 2, could be bought out though or traded/waived next season) and Gorges will be given an opportunity to play unless dealt as well.

Higgins - Koivu - Sergei Kosts (call him up)
Kosts - Pleks - Kovalev
Latendresse - Richards - Ryder
Lapierre - Chipchura - Begin/Kostopoulos

*Waive Smolinski

Kommy - Markov
Hammer - O'Bryne
Cube - Dandy/Brisebois (Hate these 3 for a pair, but the others are great combos)

* Waive Brisebois possibly and call up Cote or Bouchard.

Price
Halak
Is it April 1st yet, Richards as 3rd line center in MTL....

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Old
12-08-2007, 02:12 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kostybros View Post
He're richards BIO; To me he's PPG player...

Regular Season Playoffs
Season Team Lge GP G A Pts PIM GP G A Pts PIM
1997-98 Rimouski Oceanic QMJHL 68 33 82 115 44 19 8 24 32 2
1998-99 Rimouski Oceanic QMJHL 59 39 92 131 55 11 9 12 21 6
1999-00 Rimouski Oceanic QMJHL 63 71 115 186 69 12 13 24 37 16
2000-01 Tampa Bay Lightning NHL 82 21 41 62 14 -- -- -- -- --
2001-02 Tampa Bay Lightning NHL 82 20 42 62 13 -- -- -- -- --
2002-03 Tampa Bay Lightning NHL 80 17 57 74 24 11 0 5 5 12
2003-04 Tampa Bay Lightning NHL 82 26 53 79 12 23 12 14 26 4 =playoffs
2004-05 Kazan Ak-Bars Russia 7 2 5 7 16 -- -- -- -- --
2005-06 Tampa Bay Lightning NHL 82 23 68 91 32 5 3 5 8 6
2006-07 Tampa Bay Lightning NHL 82 25 45 70 23 6 3 5 8 6
2007-08 Tampa Bay Lightning NHL 28 8 18 26 11
NHL Totals 518 140 324 464 129 45 18 29 47 28

Use these stats! | View as text

Awards

2003-04 Lady Byng Memorial Trophy 2003-04 Conn Smythe Trophy
Yeah, because he has scored 91 points only once in 7 years, he's now a PPG player ?

Reality check #1: Richards is 25-goals and 70-points player. Not worth 8 millions !

Reality check #2: If Montreal wants a first-line player, we will necessarily have to take on an overpaid player via a trade. So Brad Richards may be a solution here, I do not deny it.

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Old
12-08-2007, 02:18 PM
  #89
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Any one of Lecavalier, Richards or St. Louis would be an awesome pick up for us. If Vinny isn't available, then let's forget about him at present in terms of a trade. So that leaves Richards and St. Louis. Now gut reaction for pretty much all of us is to go for Richards. While I'd really like to pick him up, he is expensive. Also, I'm not so sure we need a center more than we do a winger who can score. So what about St. Louis? He not only brings the points, but he also can play the penalty kill and adds a lot of speed to an already fast team. His salary isn't as high as Richards' so if we shed Ryder and then we're in great shape this season and going forward (the salary cap is going up again for next season). So I wouldn't rule out St. Louis before Richards.

Let's look at Richards though. I'll start by quoting somebody else:

Quote:
Originally Posted by kostybros View Post
He're richards BIO; To me he's PPG player, he's young and he's what we need to take the presssure away from koivu. If koivu could play as our 2nd center, he wouldn't playing against other teams best players and we would be a better overall team, no matter how it cost.

Center
Born May 2 1980 -- Murray Harbour, PEI
Height 6.01 -- Weight 198 -- Shoots L
Selected by Tampa Bay Lightning round 3 #64 overall 1998 NHL Entry Draft



Regular Season Playoffs
Season Team Lge GP G A Pts PIM GP G A Pts PIM
1997-98 Rimouski Oceanic QMJHL 68 33 82 115 44 19 8 24 32 2
1998-99 Rimouski Oceanic QMJHL 59 39 92 131 55 11 9 12 21 6
1999-00 Rimouski Oceanic QMJHL 63 71 115 186 69 12 13 24 37 16
2000-01 Tampa Bay Lightning NHL 82 21 41 62 14 -- -- -- -- --
2001-02 Tampa Bay Lightning NHL 82 20 42 62 13 -- -- -- -- --
2002-03 Tampa Bay Lightning NHL 80 17 57 74 24 11 0 5 5 12
2003-04 Tampa Bay Lightning NHL 82 26 53 79 12 23 12 14 26 4 =playoffs
2004-05 Kazan Ak-Bars Russia 7 2 5 7 16 -- -- -- -- --
2005-06 Tampa Bay Lightning NHL 82 23 68 91 32 5 3 5 8 6
2006-07 Tampa Bay Lightning NHL 82 25 45 70 23 6 3 5 8 6
2007-08 Tampa Bay Lightning NHL 28 8 18 26 11
NHL Totals 518 140 324 464 129 45 18 29 47 28

Use these stats! | View as text

Awards

2003-04 Lady Byng Memorial Trophy 2003-04 Conn Smythe Trophy
FINALLY, somebody making some sense. Everybody is doing exactly what they did in regards to Lecavalier two years ago. Everybody kept saying "oh, Lecavalier is only a 75 point producer." HELLO!!! He was the 2nd line center, just like Richards is now. Now of course people say they're all on the same PP line, but not every single PP shift. Besides, even that doesn't entirely make up for him being on the second line and the guys he's playing with. Hell, half of his points are on the PP. Guys, he doesn't play with Lecavalier and St. Louis every shift.

Now of course I'm not in love with Richards' contract, but as I said earlier the cap is going up for next year. If say by then it goes up at least 4 mil and we shed both Koivu and Kovalev we'd gain a lot of extra space. I'm sure we'd have enough for Vinny plus an extra 2 mil for other guys (likely currently on the team).

Now I'm not saying that Richards could be had for only Huet and Ryder. Still if that were the case (even if we're adding a little bit more), then it'd be crazy not to do it if you're thinking other than his contract. We have to think about the future and much like last year, if you can't see how far (or not) this team is going to go then you need to start. Richards is a relatively young guy and would be a great guy to have going forward.

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Old
12-08-2007, 02:21 PM
  #90
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I forgot to mention a few things:

1 I wouldn't deal Plekanec for Richards, though TB would likely want a center in return.

2 So if Huet and Ryder were dealt for Richards, that'd leave us a bit short out wide. What if we moved Pleks out wide?

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Old
12-08-2007, 02:28 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTWymanFan View Post
A slight overpayment...LOL remove Pleks and add Grabs and a pick from Tampa
Why? Plekanec will never be more than a 60 points plays, and he's not the centerpiece to win a Stanley Cup, while Brad Richards has a ring and the Conn Smythe. I know Richards has a frightening contract, but he has the talent.

Oh and please, stop overrating Habs players. Grabs has potential but he'll probably end up as a journeyman or a great player in the RSL.

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Old
12-08-2007, 02:42 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Komisarek_freak View Post
Why? Plekanec will never be more than a 60 points plays, and he's not the centerpiece to win a Stanley Cup, while Brad Richards has a ring and the Conn Smythe. I know Richards has a frightening contract, but he has the talent.
Plekanec is out playing Koivu right now, hes our best center, hes cheap and really is only going to get better at this point in his very young career. You watch him play he gives effort every shift and he has skill to match. I would be disapointed if he was shipped off to get a player who is making 2 or 3 millions more then he should.

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Old
12-08-2007, 02:53 PM
  #93
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Don't get rid of Plekanec, he will be a solid contributor and at a good pricetag for years to come.

Huet+Ryder+Grabovski+Desjardins or Danis

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Old
12-08-2007, 02:54 PM
  #94
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Koivu + Huet

For

Richards and a 2nd

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Old
12-08-2007, 03:10 PM
  #95
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A good read from "The Forth Period" re: Brad Richards and Montreal


In the book "The Forth Period", people are encouraged to "go fourth and multiply". I guess the first three must be wearing condoms.

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Old
12-08-2007, 03:19 PM
  #96
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I think that any serious offer for any of TB's core three has to include following pieces:

1.) Very Good+ goaltender. TB can live with rather short term solution (1-3 years at top after the current one) since they have Ramo waiting in the pipeline. However, they need someone to carry the team up to that point.

2.) Depth. No matter whom of their 3 they remove, TB is still left with 2 great players, either with one great line (Vinny-Marty) or great 1-2 punch (Vinny-Richards), however the supportive cast is quite weak so possible trade is probably geared towards uprage in that area (since trade is definetly downgrade in top level talen)

3.) Shed some salary. Background for all this buzz is TB's management's statement, that they might make cuts if the team does not straighten themselves. One way or other the trade should end with less money on TB's end.

Montreal can actually offer quite many of required pieces. Huet could fill the goalie point, although his price for next season is wide open. I think that Montreal could part with 2 forwards, and Ryder+Plekanec would be the most obvious ones. And adding those together would end with less or equal salary on TB's end.
-----------------------------------------------------------

However, I think that if there is going to be bidding war and Dallas is ready to move Turco, they can make better offer than Canadiens. Dallas have little top end talent in offence, but they have overstock of good mid level players that would come quite cheaply and thereby help TB generating better lineup with less salary. As bonus traded player would end up in different conference, thereby making the loss of great talet easier to sustain in TB.
-------------------------------------------------------------

One last thing to remember is that both tradable players (Marty and Richards) have NTC:s on their contracts. I would say that it will allow only contenders to bid in this war. If TB is heading for sort of mini rebuilding (reorganasing the team around Vinny?), I would not be surprised if Marty or Richard is ready to waive their NTC to get to contender, but move from their current team laterally to other team with questionable hopes for the future, I doubt it.

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Old
12-08-2007, 03:20 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckhead58 View Post
Koivu + Huet

For

Richards and a 2nd
hmm tough call.. but from Tampa bay PoV it's decent..

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Old
12-08-2007, 03:59 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by SKostitsyn47 View Post
hmm tough call.. but from Tampa bay PoV it's decent..
Huet is UFA at the end of the season , so it's like Koivu and half season with Huet for Richards + a second .

From Tampa , it isn't enough . Huet would have to be resigned before the deal and even then ...

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Old
12-08-2007, 04:17 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Habitant#1 View Post
Briere didn't sign here because he had no friends. Gainey will not make the same mistake twice. Trading for Richards is the key to getting Lecavalier as a UFA.
I'm not rownplaying what they could contribute to the Habs, which would be tremendous, but Richards at $7.6M + Lecavalier at whatever he could command as a UFA seems unaffordable even in Montréal. Having those two + St. Louis on a team that doesn't sell out and offers all sorts of bargains to the fans must result in staggering losses forthe Lightning.

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12-08-2007, 04:46 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by #ZAMBONI# View Post
From what i see in the forum , there are more and more fans that share my opinion on Koivu .

I was for trading Zednik , when most of the fans were not
I was for trading Ryder last season , when most of the fans were not
I was also for trading Koivu + Ryder few years back for Lecavalier , before he became the elite player he's now .
I was for trading Rivet and was also for trading Souray ( since i was sure he wasn't to resign with the Habs )

I was furious when Samsonov was signed , happy when Hammer was .

So at the end , i often went againts the general opinion , but when you look at them , my opinions aren't that bad .
Stop patting yourself on the back because you don't deserve to be congratulated for the abovementioned opinions. You assume too much, especially about Lecavalier. Almost everyone on this board wanted Lecavalier (except for some idiots who were content to have Ribeiro) but it's extremely doubtful that Lecavalier was ever available in a trade. If he had been available before he became an "elite player" and wasn't making so much money, many other NHL teams would have traded for him by offering far more than anything le Canadien could have offered in exchange. Jay Feaster would have spurned the best offer Gainey (or Savard before him) could have made. So your suggestion of getting him for Koivu and Ryder borders on the ridiculous. Did you really believe Feaster couldn't have gotten a lot more?

You were not alone in opposing the Samsonov signing and favoring the Hamrlik signing, so don't take too much credit for your foresight.

Your suggestion for trading Ryder was vague because you had no idea what he could bring in return. Even with Ryder's dismal season so far, it might not be timely to trade him.

The trouble with trading Rivet a few years ago was that the Habs had crappy defensemen, particularly at right D. Remember, Komisarek hadn't established himself and otherwise the Habs had a useless Quintal and an erratic, overpaid Brisebois. Gainey signed Dandenault at the same time he refused to re-sign Brisebois. As we have seen, Dandenault was a worse Dman than Rivet. Believe me, San Jose wouldn't have given Gorges and a first rounder for Dandy.

Maybe it was a good idea to trade Zednik, but he wasn't worth much. What did Gainey get for him, a third round pick? So what's the big deal?

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