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Canucks/Hurricanes Proposal

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Old
01-20-2004, 01:04 AM
  #1
Mr. Canucklehead
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Canucks/Hurricanes Proposal

To Carolina: 1st Rd. in 2004/or/2nd Rd. in 2004 + R.J. Umberger
To Vancouver: Rod Brind'Amour

Reasoning(from a Canuck perspective): Brind'Amour, like many of the Canes, has struggled to start this season and hasn't put up the numbers he has in recent years. The Hurricanes get some future aid for a franchise that is going to start rebuilding, and the Canucks get a veteran warrior who can help in the Playoffs, as well as put up some points.

Thoughts?

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01-20-2004, 01:05 AM
  #2
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Oh good god...extreme overpayment.

He's got 5-10 million left on his current contract I think. No way you give up that much....not a chance in hell.

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Old
01-20-2004, 01:19 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canucklehead17
To Carolina: 1st Rd. in 2004/or/2nd Rd. in 2004 + R.J. Umberger
To Vancouver: Rod Brind'Amour

Reasoning(from a Canuck perspective): Brind'Amour, like many of the Canes, has struggled to start this season and hasn't put up the numbers he has in recent years. The Hurricanes get some future aid for a franchise that is going to start rebuilding, and the Canucks get a veteran warrior who can help in the Playoffs, as well as put up some points.

Thoughts?

~Canucklehead~
done deal

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Old
01-20-2004, 01:27 AM
  #4
NFITO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canucklehead17
To Carolina: 1st Rd. in 2004/or/2nd Rd. in 2004 + R.J. Umberger
To Vancouver: Rod Brind'Amour

Reasoning(from a Canuck perspective): Brind'Amour, like many of the Canes, has struggled to start this season and hasn't put up the numbers he has in recent years. The Hurricanes get some future aid for a franchise that is going to start rebuilding, and the Canucks get a veteran warrior who can help in the Playoffs, as well as put up some points.

Thoughts?

~Canucklehead~
That is overpayment for a struggling forward who's got 3 yrs left on a $5mill/yr deal - which right there kills any chance the Canucks have interest in him (the Canucks aren't going to add a center like Brind'Amor at $5mill a year, and then negotiate with Morrison on a new contract this offseason).

Also, we don't have a 2nd rounder in 2004 (Hedberg deal)... so Umberger's compensation becomes are 2nd rounder this year (assuming Umberger doesn't get signed or dealt).

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Old
01-20-2004, 02:21 AM
  #5
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Brindamour isn't worth nearly that much. I really think the Canucks need to make a statement deal, no more offensive experiements, no more washed up players past their prime, no more defensive forwards touted as offensive top 6 guys (a la Magnus Arvedson).

If the Canucks want to improve their chances of a deep playoff run, they may need to move someone off their roster they don't necessarily want to. Matt Cooke, or even Magnus Arvedson can go IMO( barring he's healthy). I love the Cooker, but I don't see the Canucks adding much to their roster when they are only offering Chubarov, Ruutu, Sopel, Umberger, Fedorov, and picks.

To Car:
Matt Cooke
Brent Sopel
Artem Chubarov
3rd

To Van:
Jeff O'Neill
Bob Boughner

Chubarov's role is filled by Ryan Kesler, as they are the same player mold. Brent Sopel is replaced by the more physical Bob Boughner, which is an element the Canucks D has been lacking, a physical net clearing D man, and Matt Cooke plays a physical game, by so does Jarkko Ruutu, Brad May, Trevor Linden, Todd Bertuzzi, and once the Canucks add Jeff O'Neill, his grit and scoring touch can replace Matt Cooke.

I know Cooke's a fan favorite, but I think it has to be done.

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Old
01-20-2004, 06:06 AM
  #6
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Is that ENOUGH for Brinda'mour? I mean, this is a guy worth keeping in the long run...

he's playoff savvy, great in both ends (struggling a bit at the moment), had great chemistry with Linden at Nagano, great at faceoffs...

I'd love this guy.

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Old
01-20-2004, 06:30 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironchef Chris Wok
I'd love this guy.
I would too, but at $5 mil a year for another 2-3 years, the Canucks simply can't afford him. He'd basically be the Canucks 3rd line center, entirely not worth it. $2 mil I could handle, maybe even $2.5, but $5 is pushing it.

If there is a deal made between Carolina and Vancouver I think it is more likely to involve Jeff O'Neill coming to Vancouver, and a package centered around either Brent Sopel or Kiril Koltsov heading to Carolina. Maybe something like Koltsov, 1st rounder and a roster player like Jason King for O'Neill?


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Old
01-20-2004, 06:02 PM
  #8
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canucks dont have a 2nd round pick
Umberger will not be traded unless he signs a contract with the canucks otherwise he will float into FA.

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Old
01-20-2004, 06:11 PM
  #9
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It's overpayment for the Canucks to offer that much for Brind'Amour at this point, but I do not think it would be out of the question for the Canucks to make a pitch for Brind'Amour.

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01-20-2004, 06:13 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoPhan
It's overpayment for the Canucks to offer that much for Brind'Amour at this point, but I do not think it would be out of the question for the Canucks to make a pitch for Brind'Amour.
It is. The Canucks won't acquire a center who is making more than Morrison unless that center is going to have a larger role. Brindy wouldn't be the #1 center ahead of Morrison.

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01-20-2004, 06:28 PM
  #11
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He'd be a number 2. Depending on what went the other way (and what else came into Vancouver) I honestly do believe it is possible.

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01-20-2004, 06:31 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoPhan
Depending on what went the other way (and what else came into Vancouver) I honestly do believe it is possible.
The Canucks can't afford to add a $5 mil player like Rod Brind'Amour, especially considering he'd be making a considerable ammount more than Morrison. There's a slim to nil chance of Brind'Amour coming to the Canucks. Financially it doesn't make any ounce of sense.

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Old
01-20-2004, 06:50 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
The Canucks can't afford to add a $5 mil player like Rod Brind'Amour, especially considering he'd be making a considerable ammount more than Morrison. There's a slim to nil chance of Brind'Amour coming to the Canucks. Financially it doesn't make any ounce of sense.
then well take sopel and king for him

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Old
01-20-2004, 07:15 PM
  #14
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O'Neill is only making 3.75 million this year. Now I know he's not doing so well in Carolina, but could you imagine having a big scoring center like him between Bert and Nazzy. He would give size on the top line.

If we didn't have to get rid of Morrison, put him on a line between Arvedson and Linden.

Depends on what we would really have to give up to get him though.

What do you think?

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Old
01-20-2004, 07:17 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedgreen
then well take sopel and king for him
And we'll take O'Neill and Hill for Brad May...

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Old
01-20-2004, 07:20 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
And we'll take O'Neill and Hill for Brad May...
I'd do that

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Old
01-20-2004, 07:21 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackfish
What do you think?
I'd assume one of the Canucks' young d-man would have to be involved, Bryan Allen, Brent Sopel and Kiril Koltsov. It's unlikely Allen will be dealt, so Carolina would have to be interested in either Sopel or Koltsov. To even out the values the Canucks only really have picks/prospects and roster players such as Artem Chubarov and Jason King. My offers have been one of Sopel or Koltsov, one of Chubarov or King and a 1st round pick for O'Neill. Some people have said that is fair, others have disagreed. I guess it all depends on what Carolina's plans are.

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01-20-2004, 07:57 PM
  #18
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What are the chances of Brind'Amour being dealt anywhere this year?

He's killing me in my pool

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Old
01-20-2004, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
I'd assume one of the Canucks' young d-man would have to be involved, Bryan Allen, Brent Sopel and Kiril Koltsov. It's unlikely Allen will be dealt, so Carolina would have to be interested in either Sopel or Koltsov. To even out the values the Canucks only really have picks/prospects and roster players such as Artem Chubarov and Jason King. My offers have been one of Sopel or Koltsov, one of Chubarov or King and a 1st round pick for O'Neill. Some people have said that is fair, others have disagreed. I guess it all depends on what Carolina's plans are.
Allen plays 15 minutes less than Sopel on some nights... far harder to replace.

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Old
01-20-2004, 09:34 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puck you
Brindamour isn't worth nearly that much. I really think the Canucks need to make a statement deal, no more offensive experiements, no more washed up players past their prime, no more defensive forwards touted as offensive top 6 guys (a la Magnus Arvedson).

If the Canucks want to improve their chances of a deep playoff run, they may need to move someone off their roster they don't necessarily want to. Matt Cooke, or even Magnus Arvedson can go IMO( barring he's healthy). I love the Cooker, but I don't see the Canucks adding much to their roster when they are only offering Chubarov, Ruutu, Sopel, Umberger, Fedorov, and picks.

To Car:
Matt Cooke
Brent Sopel
Artem Chubarov
3rd

To Van:
Jeff O'Neill
Bob Boughner

Chubarov's role is filled by Ryan Kesler, as they are the same player mold. Brent Sopel is replaced by the more physical Bob Boughner, which is an element the Canucks D has been lacking, a physical net clearing D man, and Matt Cooke plays a physical game, by so does Jarkko Ruutu, Brad May, Trevor Linden, Todd Bertuzzi, and once the Canucks add Jeff O'Neill, his grit and scoring touch can replace Matt Cooke.

I know Cooke's a fan favorite, but I think it has to be done.
That seems like fair value to me. Canucks sacrifice a bit of lower line depth but gain the potential for a really good second line. Perhaps even let Bertuzzi play with the Sedins (he always look pretty good with them) and have O'Neill with Morrison and Näslund.

Sopel will hurt a bit but Boughner will be good enough, especially in a tough playoff.

Meanwhile, Carolina get what they want. Younger, cheaper players with some potential.

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Old
01-20-2004, 10:41 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironchef Chris Wok
Is that ENOUGH for Brinda'mour? I mean, this is a guy worth keeping in the long run...

he's playoff savvy, great in both ends (struggling a bit at the moment), had great chemistry with Linden at Nagano, great at faceoffs...

I'd love this guy.
Honestly, he's not worth spit in deal. The Canes couldn't give him to Burke for free with that contract. If the Canes eat LOTS of salary then he gets some value.

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Old
01-20-2004, 10:50 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SopelFan
Allen plays 15 minutes less than Sopel on some nights... far harder to replace.
IMO, Allen's defense and physical play is a bigger asset to the Canucks than Sopel's offense. Yes Sopel's offense is important, but other than Jovo and to a lesser extent Ohlund, the Canucks' defense is rather soft. Allen gives the Canucks that nasty, crease clearing prescence and is arguably the Canucks' 2nd best defensive d-man, in just his 2nd full season. The Canucks have Salo and Koltsov who play a similar style to Sopel. There is nobody who plays like Allen. If I had the option, I'd rather keep Sopel and Allen and use Koltsov as the main trading piece. But if Sopel was dealt, I would only trade him if the Canucks were getting a guy like Sean Hill in return, someone who can help take over the role for a short period of time. I would then reassess the situation in the off-season.

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Old
01-20-2004, 11:36 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canucklehead17
To Carolina: 1st Rd. in 2004/or/2nd Rd. in 2004 + R.J. Umberger
To Vancouver: Rod Brind'Amour

Reasoning(from a Canuck perspective): Brind'Amour, like many of the Canes, has struggled to start this season and hasn't put up the numbers he has in recent years. The Hurricanes get some future aid for a franchise that is going to start rebuilding, and the Canucks get a veteran warrior who can help in the Playoffs, as well as put up some points.

Thoughts?

~Canucklehead~
First off, I love Brind'Amour. I think that he's a great player. He's reliable in his own end, he works his butt off. He's great on faceoffs and is very strong. He can score goals and make plays. He's a leader. On skill alone, he'd be a great addition to this Canucks team who is rather "green" when it comes to the playoffs. We could definitely use his experience.

However, there's more to being a GM than just adding the pieces that your team could use. Brind'Amour being locked up long term could be a concern to some with the possibility of a lockout, but it seems to me that as Brian Burke has locked up a lot of our key players to long term deals, he would view that as a possible plus in acquiring him. Just speculation on my part, though. However, Brind'Amour's salary ($5 million this season) is a detractor as we probably don't have the space to add that amount of salary to our payroll. Also, Brind'Amour has had an awful season (just 4 goals and 12 assists in 46 games) which might turn off Burke.

I'd think about adding Brind'Amour, because I think he would be a great addition, but I think that the 'Canes would have to be willing to absorb some of his salary for such a deal to truly be an option. I think O'Neill is a more viable option, but I don't know for sure whether we have the goods to entice them to part with O'Neill, who is a fine player.

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Old
01-21-2004, 10:15 PM
  #24
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I like Rod b as a player--but his age and ability to stay healthy causes me to walk away from that deal. Also--so much young talent fo someone in their mid 30's

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