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OT: Russian Decline In NHL

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Old
12-11-2007, 11:00 PM
  #1
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OT: Russian Decline In NHL

Just thought this was an interesting article that I came across. Wonder how much truth it holds in reference to other European countries in the future...I personally don't know enough about it to comment. I also wonder what side of the spectrum most of you are on...

"The number of Russian players in the NHL is in decline and has dropped by about half during the period where no transfer deal has existed. This is a loss of talent to the NHL. This is a situation where the NHL is no longer the league where all the best players in the world come to play. However, not all people all alarmed by this change."

One anonymous commenter writes:

"Good riddance to these over-hyped, overpaid slackers. The players that have gone back are marginal NHL players at best. The league has been full of these guys that supposedly have all kinds of talent and promise but never seeme to deliver. For every Ovechkin, there are six Russian bums that thought they could come here, make the odd great rush, float around, and collect a big paycheck. It started with Krutov and has continued every year. And then they all use Mark Gandler for an agent to demand a ridiculous salary and actually threaten to go to Russia if they don't get their demands met..."


http://msn.foxsports.com/nhl/story/7540206

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12-11-2007, 11:24 PM
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ridiculous. Sure there are some Russians that dont put in the effort but to say so many of them dont is just untrue. The only russian players that come to mind in terms of slacking off are zherdev and kovalev.

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12-11-2007, 11:53 PM
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Ignorance!!

There are lazy, slackers from every country that has a representative in the NHL. This is very similar to the gripe about too many Euro's in the NBA and how it ''softened'' the league.

There will be good eggs and bad eggs...and the challenge for GM's is to find the good eggs. No matter where a player originates from.

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12-11-2007, 11:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackburn2727 View Post
ridiculous. Sure there are some Russians that dont put in the effort but to say so many of them dont is just untrue. The only russian players that come to mind in terms of slacking off are zherdev and kovalev.
Kovalev is having a very good season so far....

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12-11-2007, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackburn2727 View Post
ridiculous. Sure there are some Russians that dont put in the effort but to say so many of them dont is just untrue. The only russian players that come to mind in terms of slacking off are zherdev and kovalev.
isnt Zherdev ukrainian?

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12-12-2007, 12:16 AM
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Let's just hope a certain Russian by the name of Alexei Cherepanov will make this guy reconsider his stance soon enough!

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12-12-2007, 12:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackburn2727 View Post
The only russian players that come to mind in terms of slacking off are zherdev and kovalev.
lol. They are slackers?

Names that come to mind for me are more along the lines of Oleg Kvasha, Alexei Morozov, Alexandre Volchkov, Pavel Vorobiev, Mikhail Yakubov, Alexei Smirnov, Stanislav Chistov, Alexander Svitov, etc. Guys with loads of skill and talent but couldn't bring it on a consistent basis. So now they go home to Russia, make a ton of money and are star players in their own country. That's not a bad choice.

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12-12-2007, 12:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
One anonymous commenter writes:

"Good riddance to these over-hyped, overpaid slackers. The players that have gone back are marginal NHL players at best. The league has been full of these guys that supposedly have all kinds of talent and promise but never seeme to deliver. For every Ovechkin, there are six Russian bums that thought they could come here, make the odd great rush, float around, and collect a big paycheck. It started with Krutov and has continued every year. And then they all use Mark Gandler for an agent to demand a ridiculous salary and actually threaten to go to Russia if they don't get their demands met..."
Grapes posts on the internet apparently.

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12-12-2007, 04:49 AM
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dank
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Originally Posted by Blackburn2727 View Post
ridiculous. Sure there are some Russians that dont put in the effort but to say so many of them dont is just untrue. The only russian players that come to mind in terms of slacking off are zherdev and kovalev.
zherdev has been pretty damn solid from what little i saw and more that i heard.

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12-12-2007, 05:12 AM
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Too bad that can't be true about the population of Russians in the United States!!!!

I'm referring to the Russians who have moved here in the last 10 plus years.Not all of them but a good %.I went to my local Costco last night.While I was putting my stuff in boxes(the smaller items into boxes,it's much easier to carry when I get home),I saw 2 Russian women stealing my full cart.When I stopped them,they played dumb and said in their annoying Russian accent "This yours?".No it's not mine.It's just standing near me in a half empty parking lot.The nearest car is 50 yards away.

Sounds like Al Strachan made the comment.I don't think Grapes remembers Kruton.


Last edited by RangerBoy: 12-12-2007 at 05:34 AM.
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12-12-2007, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Too bad that can't be true about the population of Russians in the United States!!!!

I'm referring to the Russians who have moved here in the last 10 plus years.Not all of them but a good %.I went to my local Costco last night.While I was putting my stuff in boxes(the smaller items into boxes,it's much easier to carry when I get home),I saw 2 Russian women stealing my full cart.When I stopped them,they played dumb and said in their annoying Russian accent "This yours?".No it's not mine.It's just standing near me in a half empty parking lot.The nearest car is 50 yards away.

Sounds like Al Strachan made the comment.I don't think Grapes remembers Kruton.
we have similar issues in Wales/Uk with many poles and western Africans. Its just the way the world is these days RB!!! with so many immigrants moving all over the world these problems mulitply. Unfortunately you get certain nationalitys stereotyped then!!!

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12-12-2007, 07:23 AM
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The writer is a little over zealous, no?

Some of the things he/she said are off base, and unnecessary.

First of all, in the 80's no country could match the Soviet Union(Russia)... that includes Canada.

And for every Crosby, there are thousands of "bums."

Russia provides some of the most dynamic players to ever strap on skates.

And if it weren't for the IIHF dispute then there would be more of an influx of Russian talent in North America.

Alexei Cherepanov only fell to us because of that dispute.

If there were no IIHF dispute, then there would be many many more dynamic Russian players in the league.

One of the greatest defenseman of all time is a Russian (Lidstrom)

One of the greatest goaltenders (Tretiak)

Some of the best forwards (Federov, Bure...)

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12-12-2007, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadwayBlues View Post
The writer is a little over zealous, no?

Some of the things he/she said are off base, and unnecessary.

First of all, in the 80's no country could match the Soviet Union(Russia)... that includes Canada.

And for every Crosby, there are thousands of "bums."

Russia provides some of the most dynamic players to ever strap on skates.

And if it weren't for the IIHF dispute then there would be more of an influx of Russian talent in North America.

Alexei Cherepanov only fell to us because of that dispute.

If there were no IIHF dispute, then there would be many many more dynamic Russian players in the league.

One of the greatest defenseman of all time is a Russian (Lidstrom)

One of the greatest goaltenders (Tretiak)

Some of the best forwards (Federov, Bure...)
LIDSTROM'S A SWEDE!!!!!!!!!

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Old
12-12-2007, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRJurgen88 View Post
LIDSTROM'S A SWEDE!!!!!!!!!
Dammit...

I made a mistake.

However, i still stand by my side on the dispute.

The Soviet Union/Russia has produced many great players.

And there still would be more if not for the IIHF dispute.

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Old
12-12-2007, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Too bad that can't be true about the population of Russians in the United States!!!!

I'm referring to the Russians who have moved here in the last 10 plus years.Not all of them but a good %.I went to my local Costco last night.While I was putting my stuff in boxes(the smaller items into boxes,it's much easier to carry when I get home),I saw 2 Russian women stealing my full cart.When I stopped them,they played dumb and said in their annoying Russian accent "This yours?".No it's not mine.It's just standing near me in a half empty parking lot.The nearest car is 50 yards away.
The most idiotic OT comment i've heard

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12-12-2007, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Too bad that can't be true about the population of Russians in the United States!!!!

I'm referring to the Russians who have moved here in the last 10 plus years.Not all of them but a good %.I went to my local Costco last night.While I was putting my stuff in boxes(the smaller items into boxes,it's much easier to carry when I get home),I saw 2 Russian women stealing my full cart.When I stopped them,they played dumb and said in their annoying Russian accent "This yours?".No it's not mine.It's just standing near me in a half empty parking lot.The nearest car is 50 yards away.

Sounds like Al Strachan made the comment.I don't think Grapes remembers Kruton.
Do you personally know "a good percentage" of Russians in the United States? No? Then don't make ignorant generalizations about a particular population. Come on RB, I expect better from you.

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12-12-2007, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Too bad that can't be true about the population of Russians in the United States!!!!

I'm referring to the Russians who have moved here in the last 10 plus years.Not all of them but a good %.I went to my local Costco last night.While I was putting my stuff in boxes(the smaller items into boxes,it's much easier to carry when I get home),I saw 2 Russian women stealing my full cart.When I stopped them,they played dumb and said in their annoying Russian accent "This yours?".No it's not mine.It's just standing near me in a half empty parking lot.The nearest car is 50 yards away.

Sounds like Al Strachan made the comment.I don't think Grapes remembers Kruton.
What a ******..
Someone tried to get your cart on the friggin parking lot, and you accuse them of stealing? Why didn't you call cops to protect you? You could've press charges later..
What "good percentage" you refer to? You probably had plenty of well documented runins with the mobs of Russian trying to take your carts away on regular basis? Pisses me off..

Quote:
and said in their annoying Russian accent "This yours?"
your ancestors must have arrived here on the "mayflower" since you probably have such an impecable boston prononciation.. annoying? you little ****.. too bad I can't say want I want to say to you here on this board.


Last edited by Rangers_SI: 12-12-2007 at 08:19 AM.
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Old
12-12-2007, 08:25 AM
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I personally think that this league could definately use more European players, and less North American players.

From what I see European players are better passers and shooters than their NA counterparts. This is what the league needs too keep the flow of games rather than players who can't stickhandle that well and can only hit people.

Passing has gotten piss poor recently and that I think is a big reason why teams can't beat the trap. The Euro's are better at the skill aspects of the game ie passing and shooting but aren't near as good at hitting. That is another reason fans feel that they are not trying, b/c they aren't running like a chicken w/o their head hitting every thing that moves.

The NHL needs more skill players and less grinders. Than we will see more scoring chances and more scoring.

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12-12-2007, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
I personally think that this league could definately use more European players, and less North American players.

From what I see European players are better passers and shooters than their NA counterparts. This is what the league needs too keep the flow of games rather than players who can't stickhandle that well and can only hit people.

Passing has gotten piss poor recently and that I think is a big reason why teams can't beat the trap. The Euro's are better at the skill aspects of the game ie passing and shooting but aren't near as good at hitting. That is another reason fans feel that they are not trying, b/c they aren't running like a chicken w/o their head hitting every thing that moves.

The NHL needs more skill players and less grinders. Than we will see more scoring chances and more scoring.
Europeans better passers? North Americans only hit people? you're not even generalising by country your doing it by continent... WOW!!!!!!!

lets all stop generalising by nationality/continent.

The league needs to find a balance and i think its not far off right now - one of the few things they doing fairly well... The only thing they need to do is address the balance in the lower leagues and make sure so many young Europeans dont disappear inthe minors.

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12-12-2007, 09:14 AM
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I'm not a big fan of Russian, Czech or Slovak players but there's no denying that they have produced some of the most exciting players to ever play in the NHL. Guys like Jagr, Pavel Bure, Marian Hossa, Marian Gaborik, Alex Ovechkin and Ilya Kovalchuk come to mind immediately.

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12-12-2007, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Brawler View Post
I'm not a big fan of Russian, Czech or Slovak players but there's no denying that they have produced some of the most exciting players to ever play in the NHL. Guys like Jagr, Pavel Bure, Marian Hossa, Marian Gaborik, Alex Ovechkin and Ilya Kovalchuk come to mind immediately.
French Canadians could say the same thing with Guy Lafleur etc, etc...

British Columbians could argue the toss with guys like Sakic

Americans could argue the toss with Modano, Roenick etc, etc..

every traditional area, country or hockey region could argue the same though?!

i think people patronise other countries by seeming almost surprised that these countries are able to produce such good players regularly... lets not forgetthe size of a place like Russia or the hockey obsessions of a country like the Czech Republic.

....now, it'd be surprising if the UK ever produced a HOF'er!!!!!!

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12-12-2007, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by NYRJurgen88 View Post
Europeans better passers? North Americans only hit people? you're not even generalising by country your doing it by continent... WOW!!!!!!!

lets all stop generalising by nationality/continent.

The league needs to find a balance and i think its not far off right now - one of the few things they doing fairly well... The only thing they need to do is address the balance in the lower leagues and make sure so many young Europeans dont disappear inthe minors.
The North American game there is more hitting and clutching and grabbing from what I read, where as the Euro game there is less but more passing. This is why you see a lot of Euro players hold on to the puck and look to pass more often, than shoot. They like to make a lot of passes then creating more lanes and openings to shoot from.

Also about shooting, look at most of the league's best snipers, not guys who score scrappy goals so don't just go by goals scored, in the past 15 years. Most of them are Russian or Czech.

The North American game is more dump and chase and hard work around the boards. that is why people say that Euro players need some time to acclimate themselves to the North American style of play b/c there is more hitting and more boardwork than the Euro game.

It's not mean to be insulting. It's just the different styles play.

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12-12-2007, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
The North American game there is more hitting and clutching and grabbing from what I read, where as the Euro game there is less but more passing. This is why you see a lot of Euro players hold on to the puck and look to pass more often, than shoot. They like to make a lot of passes then creating more lanes and openings to shoot from.

Also about shooting, look at most of the league's best snipers, not guys who score scrappy goals so don't just go by goals scored, in the past 15 years. Most of them are Russian or Czech.

The North American game is more dump and chase and hard work around the boards. that is why people say that Euro players need some time to acclimate themselves to the North American style of play b/c there is more hitting and more boardwork than the Euro game.

It's not mean to be insulting. It's just the different styles play.

i didnt mean you in particular were insulting but it does happen.

Firstly, you dont think there are hitters or scappy goal scorers in these countries? they too come across, though the snipers from these countries (ie Kovalchuk etc) come across as they are the best from there at what they do so they will be more highlighted in a foreign (in this case the NHL) country

and just because a country (ie. USA or Canada) hits more or is more physical doesnt mean they cant be or arent as good in other depts...

Rocket Richard winners recently: guys like Rick Nash or Iginla(x2), Cheechoo, LeCavalier....

so some of the very, very bst scorers dont necessarily have to be russian, czech etc.

my (longwinded) point basically is that a particular country isnt necessarily a guarantee or stereotype for certain type of players....

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12-12-2007, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Slick Nick View Post
Kovalev is having a very good season so far....
So is Zherdev.

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12-12-2007, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by CCCP View Post
So is Zherdev.
Columbus could become very dangerous if guys like Zherdev finally break out consistently... with him, Nash, Brassard, Voraceck and Leclaire they have a very dangerous and young nucleus....

maybe it does pay to be totally rubbish for 3 or 4 years!!!!!

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