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If Hossa wasnt Hossa...

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Old
12-12-2007, 01:01 AM
  #1
frankthefrowner
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If Hossa wasnt Hossa...

If Marcel had a different last name, would he still get as much bs from the fans as he does??

He Hustles
He Kills Penalties
He hits sometimes
He just cant score...

Any other player would be a nice gritty player. Yet because Marcel doesnt score like Marian he gets a tremendous amount of crap from the fans. I find that mind boggling.

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12-12-2007, 01:13 AM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankthefrowner View Post
If Marcel had a different last name, would he still get as much bs from the fans as he does??

He Hustles
He Kills Penalties
He hits sometimes
He just cant score...

Any other player would be a nice gritty player. Yet because Marcel doesnt score like Marian he gets a tremendous amount of crap from the fans. I find that mind boggling.
We don't think he's Marian, Tom Renney does.

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12-12-2007, 01:24 AM
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Agree that it has a lot to do with how the Rangers have used him. He's had plenty of chances on the top lines but hasn't contributed much offense. Hossa seems to have the skill but no killer intinct, enough confidence in himself to be a consistent contributor. He also tends not to use his size going to the front of the net. He uses it in the corners and on the perimeters and can protect the puck well. He's not good at finding openings between the circles. Otherwise he has made himself useful--becoming a good defensive player, a solid penalty killer, and good on the shootout.

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12-12-2007, 01:30 AM
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frankthefrowner
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Agree that it has a lot to do with how the Rangers have used him. He's had plenty of chances on the top lines but hasn't contributed much offense. Hossa seems to have the skill but no killer intinct, enough confidence in himself to be a consistent contributor. He also tends not to use his size going to the front of the net. He uses it in the corners and on the perimeters and can protect the puck well. He's not good at finding openings between the circles. Otherwise he has made himself useful--becoming a good defensive player, a solid penalty killer, and good on the shootout.
I cant blame Tom for giving him a little bit of a shot on the top line. He did show last year that he could do it. But maybe that was just a blip on the radar.

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12-12-2007, 01:50 AM
  #5
klingsor
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He's frustrating because he should be scoring more. I'm not talking Marian numbers. 40-50 points would be nice, but he's nowhere near that

I tend to agree with those who think he has confidence issues, but Renney has done just about everything he can do to build his confidence. As I said, he's frustrating and may end up a 4th liner who has the talent to be at least a third liner.

Maybe hypnosis is the answer.

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12-12-2007, 04:20 AM
  #6
mike14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankthefrowner View Post
If Marcel had a different last name, would he still get as much bs from the fans as he does??

He Hustles
He Kills Penalties
He hits sometimes
He just cant score...


Any other player would be a nice gritty player. Yet because Marcel doesnt score like Marian he gets a tremendous amount of crap from the fans. I find that mind boggling.
Sounds a lot like Hollweg to me (although Hollweg hits more and PKs less) and he has enough detractors, so I'll say no the last name doesn't give him more grief but it means people will always hold out hope that he'll break and become a consistent scorer

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12-12-2007, 07:53 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankthefrowner View Post
If Marcel had a different last name, would he still get as much bs from the fans as he does??

He Hustles
He Kills Penalties
He hits sometimes
He just cant score...

Any other player would be a nice gritty player. Yet because Marcel doesnt score like Marian he gets a tremendous amount of crap from the fans. I find that mind boggling.
Honestly, the fact that he's Marian's brother doesn't factor into my opinion of him at all. I don't even think about it, until we get the weekly thread pointing out that they're brothers and arguing that's the sole reason that fans dislike him. I can appreciate the skills he does possess, but when he's constantly put in roles on the top two lines and continues to fail to put up any offense, people will grow frustrated.

It's Renney's fault, basically. He continues to ask things of Hossa that just aren't realistic. People loved Jed Ortmeyer, but I guarantee you that if he were consistently given top-2 minutes, people would be very frustrated with him. And then it would have nothing to do with his brother, would it?

Are there people out there who expect too much of Marcel because his last name is Hossa? I'm sure. But the majority of fans are simply unhappy with his lack of production, given the opportunities that he has had. It's really as simple as that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike14 View Post
Sounds a lot like Hollweg to me (although Hollweg hits more and PKs less) and he has enough detractors, so I'll say no the last name doesn't give him more grief but it means people will always hold out hope that he'll break and become a consistent scorer
A lot of people maintain hope that Hossa will become a consistent scorer because he has all to tools to do so. He's strong on the puck, skates well, has a good shot, etc... He just can't put it together. You can see the potential in him, he's just never going to realize it. That's fine, however, if he's given third and fourth line minutes, and puts in good work on the PK- which is about the extent of what his role ought to be.

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Old
12-12-2007, 08:10 AM
  #8
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Originally Posted by u8mylife47 View Post
We don't think he's Marian, Tom Renney does.
I don't see that Renney does.

Renney does not have him on the ice for his offensive ability.

He plays him because he is strong on the puck, and is defensively reliable.

He plays the PK, and right now is on the second line due to Avery's injury.

But he has not looked bad in any role he was put in this year.

He is never a liability on the ice, never, so i don't see why people rip into him.

Sure, he COULD score more. But to demand it is unrealistic. He is what he is. He is a guy who does things that go unnoticed by most casual fans because he is not lighting it up like Kovalchuck. lol

But to a student of hockey, they will notice the things that he does to help his team win.

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12-12-2007, 08:12 AM
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I don't care if his last name is Messier...

I see a player with very good size and very good skills that can't play offensively on a consistent basis and who doesn't have the drive and determination to get his nose dirty and rack up the points. On defense, he's good, not great, but he can be inconsistent in that category too. The reason why he's so much maligned in this forum is that Renney plays him as if he's his brother. He stuck with him more than many others even when he was stinking up the joint. The issue is not because of his last name.

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12-12-2007, 08:15 AM
  #10
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Originally Posted by BroadwayBlues View Post
But to a student of hockey, they will notice the things that he does to help his team win.
Sure, but 90% of the fans will see a team that's struggling to score goals, and then see Hossa who's on pace for a whopping 15 points. The argument that Hossa is "worthless" is just silly, and ignores his obvious strengths, but a player on the top two lines should be able to contribute more offensively. While it seems that Renney has finally given up on the idea of Hossa as a legitimate top-6 forward, watching Hossa struggle to put up numbers in that role has left a bitter taste in the mouths of many.

FWIW, I like Hossa, so long as he's relegated to third/fourth line duty and the PK.

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Old
12-12-2007, 08:28 AM
  #11
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Sure, but 90% of the fans will see a team that's struggling to score goals, and then see Hossa who's on pace for a whopping 15 points. The argument that Hossa is "worthless" is just silly, and ignores his obvious strengths, but a player on the top two lines should be able to contribute more offensively. While it seems that Renney has finally given up on the idea of Hossa as a legitimate top-6 forward, watching Hossa struggle to put up numbers in that role has left a bitter taste in the mouths of many.

FWIW, I like Hossa, so long as he's relegated to third/fourth line duty and the PK.
Of course, he is not a 2nd line player, the only reason he is there right now is because of injuries.

He will be relegated to 4th line duty as soon as our top line guys are all healthy.

But he isn't detrimental to the club by any means.

That said, there is no reason why Dawes couldn't fill in on the 2nd line while Avery has been injured.

But, a trade should be in the works to get a bonafied goal getter at the deadline.

Someone like Ryder. Who is struggling in his current atmosphere, but has a history of genuine production...and perhaps a change of scenery will bring out that past production.

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12-12-2007, 09:12 AM
  #12
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Anyone think we're keeping Hossa as long as we have to see if that helps to get the other Hossa if he hits FA? Maybe that would intice him to sign with the Rangers to play with his brother (while getting a nice payraise from us too).

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12-12-2007, 09:14 AM
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In my mind, Hossa is the PERFECT 3rd line player that kills penalties. If that's all he did, I'd love it. The problem is that he keeps getting 1st line minutes because Renney thinks Jagr can fix him. That's what irritates me.

Keep him on the 3rd line.

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12-12-2007, 09:17 AM
  #14
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Originally Posted by coolbean04 View Post
Anyone think we're keeping Hossa as long as we have to see if that helps to get the other Hossa if he hits FA? Maybe that would intice him to sign with the Rangers to play with his brother (while getting a nice payraise from us too).
I had a sneaking suspicion that could be A reason...

But i don't know how much conspiracy theory comes into play behind the scenes in a sports franchise lol.

Who knows though.

I'd LOVE to have Marian Hossa here, though.

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Old
12-12-2007, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankthefrowner View Post
If Marcel had a different last name, would he still get as much bs from the fans as he does??

He Hustles
He Kills Penalties
He hits sometimes
He just cant score...

Any other player would be a nice gritty player. Yet because Marcel doesnt score like Marian he gets a tremendous amount of crap from the fans. I find that mind boggling.
I don't have too much of a problem with Hossa. I just think when he's put on a top line with Jagr he's open to much more criticism when he can't finish scoring opportunities. He's been a second half player for the last few years so let's see what happens as we get closer to the second half. He could get streaky and score 5-10 goals over the course of one month. And that would be helpful to a team that is offensively challenged.

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Old
12-12-2007, 10:12 AM
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Hossa will get around 8 million as a UFA. No way the Rangers can afford him with the contracts they currently have plus Lundqvist's 6.5-7. And everybody on defense is a UFA or RFA.

Hossa should be on the 4th line/3rd line at best. He is misused, especially when he was on the first line with Jagr. I can see why Renney did it though, because Hossa got real hot at the end of last year when he was put on Jagr's line. But, the guy has never scored more than 10 goals. He is not worthy to play with Jagr.

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Old
12-12-2007, 10:18 AM
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marcel is slightly better than Jason Ward (but the name adds potential)

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Old
12-12-2007, 10:25 AM
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Hossa is so intriguing because all the other parts of his game are there...he just cant seem to put the puck in the net. Hes big, strong, an above average skater, kills penalties, is strong on the boards, and has a good pedigree (which may be why he gets picked on, as some have already noted).

Anyway, if you compare him to a "fan favorite" like Prucha, who has none of those attributes I just listed, it becomes pretty apparent who is more valuable to the New York Rangers...especially when you consider that neither one is scoring.

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12-12-2007, 10:33 AM
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Hossa is the Man

Sometimes it makes sense that you can doubt that he belongs on the 1st line, but when you watch him play you see that almost everytime on the ice he does something that makes you notice him. It can be a good defense play, phenominal penalty killing, or just plain hustle.

All Hossa haters should watch how good he is even though he isnt a goal scorer, he deserves to be playing everynight and with time the scoring will come.

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12-12-2007, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolbean04 View Post
In my mind, Hossa is the PERFECT 3rd line player that kills penalties. If that's all he did, I'd love it. The problem is that he keeps getting 1st line minutes because Renney thinks Jagr can fix him. That's what irritates me.

Keep him on the 3rd line.
See I agree with that statement. He is a 3rd line Pk guy nothig at all more. He brings hustle to the table and is avg in the offensive zone. He can'tbe on the first or second lines period

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Old
12-12-2007, 10:40 AM
  #21
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Originally Posted by iluvmarberrys View Post
Sometimes it makes sense that you can doubt that he belongs on the 1st line, but when you watch him play you see that almost everytime on the ice he does something that makes you notice him. It can be a good defense play, phenominal penalty killing, or just plain hustle.

All Hossa haters should watch how good he is even though he isnt a goal scorer, he deserves to be playing everynight and with time the scoring will come.
Agree with everything you just said until the last sentence. I'm not so sure that Hossa will ever be a consistent goal scorer, but he does everything else well enough to be playing every night on the lower lines.

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Old
12-12-2007, 11:13 AM
  #22
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Originally Posted by u8mylife47 View Post
We don't think he's Marian, Tom Renney does.
very well said.

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Old
12-12-2007, 11:15 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by iluvmarberrys View Post
Sometimes it makes sense that you can doubt that he belongs on the 1st line, but when you watch him play you see that almost everytime on the ice he does something that makes you notice him. It can be a good defense play, phenominal penalty killing, or just plain hustle.

All Hossa haters should watch how good he is even though he isnt a goal scorer, he deserves to be playing everynight and with time the scoring will come.
He's 26 and has 31 goals in his NHL career. The scoring WILL NOT come.

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12-12-2007, 11:33 AM
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hossa should also be given credit for not consistently committing stupid or oddly-timed penalties, which is something that a lot of others on the team do regularly.

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Old
12-12-2007, 11:44 AM
  #25
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
He's 26 and has 31 goals in his NHL career. The scoring WILL NOT come.
READ what was wrote. You should take notice of his other skills when HE IS NOT SCORING.

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