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What's the problem?

View Poll Results: What's the problem?
Coaching 20 23.26%
Jagr Stinking 52 60.47%
No secondary scoring 23 26.74%
Too much passing, not enough shooting 31 36.05%
Defense 5 5.81%
Goaltending 5 5.81%
Lines 16 18.60%
Other 23 26.74%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 86. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
12-13-2007, 06:23 AM
  #26
RangerBoy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otto1219 View Post
you my friend are a genius, i voted coaching too, renney has to bench jagr, enough said. It is becoming more and more clear that making jagr captain was a terrible mistake.
If Renney benches Jagr,then Jagr is lost for the rest of the season.

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Old
12-13-2007, 06:24 AM
  #27
SilverSeven
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Too many stars. I really think that can be an issue on a team.

You take a bunch of guys who were the centre of attention both on and off the ice and throw em all together and tell em to share.

So for this, I voted Jagr (as he is one of them), and other.

But Ive only seen a few of your games.

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Old
12-13-2007, 06:30 AM
  #28
RangerBoy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSeven View Post
Too many stars. I really think that can be an issue on a team.

You take a bunch of guys who were the centre of attention both on and off the ice and throw em all together and tell em to share.

So for this, I voted Jagr (as he is one of them), and other.

But Ive only seen a few of your games.
Too many stars?

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Old
12-13-2007, 07:06 AM
  #29
Jaromir Jagr
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Too many stars?
Lol, that's basically what I was thinking.

While I understand your logic, who's a star besides Jagr?

Nobody...... at least not a well known NHL star.

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Old
12-13-2007, 08:07 AM
  #30
SilverSeven
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Originally Posted by Bruno Ranger View Post
Lol, that's basically what I was thinking.

While I understand your logic, who's a star besides Jagr?

Nobody...... at least not a well known NHL star.
Drury, Gomez, Shanny, Lundqvist.

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Old
12-13-2007, 08:56 AM
  #31
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The problem last night is the same problem whenever this team loses by and large: they don't play a full 60 minutes of hockey. They had the Caps down 2-0. And the Rangers didn't step on their neck. To the Caps credit, they turned up their intensity a notch or three. And the Rangers didn't match it.

We can go into other things like lack of secondary scoring, but the bottom line is when this team plays a full 60 minutes, they are tough to beat. They didn't last night. And when they don't, they are beatable.

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Old
12-13-2007, 08:58 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abev View Post
Girardi and Strudwick.
What are you smoking? Can I have some?

Problems: We are looking for the preety goal all the time (get some ***** in front of the net) - Avery is out - dumb defensive coverage - and finally and most importantly: lack of converted scoring chances.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyrJeff View Post
where's the option for "Too much complaining by fans after each and every loss" ?
We arent coaching the team, and im preety sure the players arent on this site. If you stick around long enough - we complain till the next game and then its a clean slate, with many "Lets Go Rangers!".

Then its a coinflip

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Old
12-13-2007, 09:12 AM
  #33
Rags225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kostik View Post
Coaching.
Renney and his guys implemented for this year defense-first system that doesn't suit majority of the players but Henrik.
Defense usually wins you Cups, but current Rangers system is just horrid.

My current issues with Renney:
1)Strict defense system that doesn't work very well
Agreed 100%. Renney is not utilizing this team properly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kostik View Post
2)Drury on the third line, should be playing on first two
I think he's a better winger than center. It's just too bad that we dont' have another center on this team. Maybe a first line of Drury-Straks-Jagr. Only Drury would take the faceoffs but than slide to wing during play.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kostik View Post
3)Dubi on first, kid is a future 2nd/3rd liner, but should not be playing 15-20 mins per game. He is not strong enough yet, gets pushed from a puck a lot
Dubinsky is one of the strongest on the puck, and around the boards. The only two forwards who consistently get pushed of the puck are Prucha and Cally. Agreed that he is a 2nd or third liner though. But again being consistent with what I said before I don't see Drury as a center but a winger. Therefore I guess Dubi should be w/ Jagr.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kostik View Post
4)He is trying to do from 4th line shutdown line with 8-10 mins a game- can work with Betts, but not with Orr or Hollweg. 4th line should be energy line, playing with grit and hitting max 5-6 mins a game.
Agreed 100%

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kostik View Post
5)Powerplay - he needs to listen to Shanahan and Jagr and find better solution than this one. Again, Dubi should not be on PP yet. Put Drury in front of the net, he is so good with deflections.
So if Drury is on the first line, that would leave a wing spot open on the second. You think Cally is more deserving than Dubi. I don't personally. Plus that 2nd line PP unit has acutally been playing well. Players need to move around more and pass more. By pass more I mean a couple of quick, passes or diagonal passes w/ people actually moving not standing still. This will open up shooting lanes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kostik View Post
5)6)Ignoring Dawes and his scoring touch. Dawes should play instead of Prucha or Callahan right now. Same can be applied for Moore as well...shake up the lines, Cally and Prucha are not scoring...Dawes-Dubi-Moore hm? Youngsters, but capable to play 10-12 minutes per game.
Dawes should play instead of Prucha. Dawes and Prucha should never dressed for the same game. They are the same player and both are midgets. We need size. I am also starting to agree that Moore might more deserving that Cally. Also Moore can play center so there might be more options for line combo's. (Drury might be on a wing than where he is better)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kostik View Post
5)7)Playing Struds over Malik. Imo Malik is still better than Struds.

Don't get me wrong, Renney is best coach for Rangers in a long time.
He is excellent with young guys and their development(well Dawes or Immo would disagree now).
But still has lot of flaws imo.
Agreed. Actually I think Girardi needs to be benched a game or two to get his head out of his a$$ as well. Hold people responsible for their actions.

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Old
12-13-2007, 09:18 AM
  #34
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Come back Malik and please forgive us.

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Old
12-13-2007, 09:20 AM
  #35
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I voted other because I think it's a combination of things and can't be blamed on any one issue. Don't put it all on Jagr. There's a lot of sloppiness going on that has nothing to do with him. And while I find Renney to be an effective coach in most circumstances, I'm beginning to think he's losing both the players' trust and the ability to motivate them.

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Old
12-13-2007, 09:23 AM
  #36
In The Flesh
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Originally Posted by Chimaera View Post
When you can watch a full Rangers game and wonder where a 8 million dollar center was for the entire game, something might be up.



Did Drury play tonight?
He's a ghost

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Old
12-13-2007, 09:24 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Come back Malik and please forgive us.
so, so sad its come to this

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Old
12-13-2007, 10:07 AM
  #38
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The biggest problem is coaching - we need to overcome the aggressive forcheck that other teams are using. Shooting the puck more would also help increase scoring chances on the PP

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Old
12-13-2007, 10:10 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by doubled View Post
The biggest problem is coaching - we need to overcome the aggressive forcheck that other teams are using. Shooting the puck more would also help increase scoring chances on the PP
The problem isn't shooting the puck all the time. Our passing sucks on the PP and nobody is moving or trying to find open lanes. You can't just shoot if there is no shooting lane. People have to start moving more and making better and quicker passes instead of holding on to the puck and barely moving.

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Old
12-13-2007, 10:10 AM
  #40
Carlos Ranger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSeven View Post
Drury, Gomez, Shanny, Lundqvist.
Heatley, Spezza, Alfredsson, Redden, Emery..

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Old
12-13-2007, 10:51 AM
  #41
Gardner McKay
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Last nights game agaisnt the caps shows...

What this teams flaws are exactly.

I have broken it down into three major flaws, all being traced back to one single source.

1. Tom Renneys failure to yet against provide a solution for the power play. I dont care who it is, who you are, when you have a group as talented as the Rangers, and 30 games in you are still juggling PP lines? Something is wrong.

2. Tom Renneys over use of the fourth line. They are not a shut down line,and Renneys continuing use of them as a shut down line will continue to cost us un-neccesary goals at they did twice last night against Ovechkins line. Also, Renney has changed the mojo of his fourth line completely. Any one remember in 05-06 when HMO, Hollweg Moore Ortmeyer line was our fourth line? Any one remember how they did nothing but hit, hit, and hit some more. Yet they didnt take stupid penalties and were not out of place. With Hollweg Betts and Orr as our new fourth line Renney does not have them go out and hit. From what I have seen all year, its almost as if he trys to have them as another scoring line. Only problem is that group of players just cant do it.


3rd- Renneys failure to have his team compensate for the three man forecheck. Must give credit to Ted Nolan and the Icegirls for this one
. Ted was the first coach to use the three man forecheck against the Rangers and show how succesful it was. November we were 9-3. Two of our losses were to the Isles correct? In each game Nolan used the 3 man for check in order to disrupt any offensive flow that the Rangers could create, it stops Scotty Gomez from going end to end, and Jaromir Jagr from doing the same.

Some of you might say, but hey we beat the Isles. And Johnny you would be correct, but that game was at the end of back to back games in which New Yorks finest were able to take advantage of a Isles team which could not surmount enough energy to provide the 3 man forcheck.

The devils game. The Rangers played a very solid game. They had ALOT of chances on offense. Which shows that the Rangers were able to carry their puck out of the zone, and into the other teams un touched. They also kept a fair amount of pressure away from Lundqvist by not having any costly turnovers at your own blue line.

Last nights game. Washington uses the 3 man forcheck and what happens? Dont ask me how the Rangers got a point out of this game. It is one of the greater mysteries that exist in the universe. They were outplayed, out hit, out husled, got killed on face offs, (didn't we spend 15 mil to fix that problem?) had the puck in our zone for the majority of the game. This was more of Oalie the Goalie 's failure to make the saves when it counted and a few, very few errors by the caps that the Rangers cashed in on. Despite winning 2-1 after 1 period, all the stats pointed toward the Caps. After the game being tied 2-2 same. Thats how the game ended, with all signs pointing south toward washington, instead of north to new york. Bruce Budreau implemented the three man forcheck last night and the Rangers got manhandled.


I fault the coach on all three of these major, major problems.That is the Rangers weakness. Not offense, not defense, not a lack of goaltending ever, the coach. Renney was nothing more then the beneficiary of a happy Jagr in 05-06 and 06-07 to make him look like a genius. Happy hour is over Tom and its time to return to reality.

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Old
12-13-2007, 10:58 AM
  #42
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Jagr hasn't been Jagr and it's unlikely he will be again. Time to either move him for someone who will fit into a high energy team style that moves north south or demand (if possible) that he play the Ranger's game and not the other way around.

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Old
12-13-2007, 11:02 AM
  #43
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Tom Renney's not going anywhere.

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Old
12-13-2007, 11:08 AM
  #44
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What's the problem?

coaching, mostly.

This team does have the talent. It has a decent combination of players too. These guys aren't being utilized properly and are definitely underperforming. When guys underperform, yet you can see they are working hard, there's a problem with coaching.

Someone mentioned Drury needs to play on the top two lines...that may be true, but at the same time Drury needs to play less. He's averaging about 2-3 minutes more than he averaged the last several seasons. Similar to Shanny last season, he doesn't have a jump in his step right now, and all those minutes (such as 25-26 minute games) has taken its toll, and that's coaching. Drury should be playing with Jagr though, and Dubi should be playing on the third line. He's playing well, and that's all good, but we're talking about a top line that is underperforming and how long does one have to wait until it turns around?

Why Jagr isn't going is a mystery, but measures could've (and should've) been taken earlier, especially on the PP, to mitigate the effects of his ineffectiveness.

Too many stars? Yes and no. I had issues to start the season that there were too many guys requiring PP time and there wasn't enough PP time to go around. That is still the case, but Renney & Co. cannot figure out the PP schematics that make sense anyways, and this has been an issue the last couple seasons. Aside from that, you're talking about a couple centermen 'stars', one and couple wingers and Lundqvist - so two-thirds of two lines and a goalie - hardly too many.

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Old
12-13-2007, 11:12 AM
  #45
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i think one of the big problems is not just Jagr playing bad but just Jagr in general...the whole Czech experiment the rangers started awhile ago is done and over with..its time to move on...get rid of Jagr, give Shanny the C and lets move on....we should get a return on Jagr while a team will take him and give the Rangers something decent in return

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Old
12-13-2007, 11:13 AM
  #46
Fletch
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Rags..

why Cally over Prucha? One would've argued that Cally kills penalties, but for some reason he does not do that any longer. I'd take the kid who's scored in the NHL over the kid who really hasn't, all else being equal.

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Old
12-13-2007, 11:13 AM
  #47
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In terms of the PP, I think the lines are perfect, the strategy is what's wrong. The players say they don't like to shoot because they're afraid of a block that goes the other way. However, if they don't shoot they don't' score. The real answer in that is that they aren't moving the puck quickly and smoothly enough to make the defenders move and the defensemen aren't taking enough one timers. If the puck goes from the right boards to the left point in quick succession and there's a one-timer taken, no one is going to block that shot. They can't get there in time. If the shot is blocked in front of the net it's not as big of a deal as if it's blocked at the point. There's pretty much just as good of a chance of a blocked shot in front of the net as a deflection.

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Old
12-13-2007, 11:17 AM
  #48
Rags225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
why Cally over Prucha? One would've argued that Cally kills penalties, but for some reason he does not do that any longer. I'd take the kid who's scored in the NHL over the kid who really hasn't, all else being equal.
exactly the reason. Can give Shanny and Drury a little more of a break on the PK. Prucha can't. Although Renney doesn't do that either.

Also I feel that Cally is a little stronger on the puck than Prucha and doesn't get tossed around as easily, even though he still does get tossed around.

But like I said before. I don't think either should be in the lineup anymore. Cally should be sent down to the AHL to hone in on his skills and Pruch should be benched/traded. Dawes and Moore should take their places and give a fair shot like 10 games. Then see where we are at.

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Old
12-13-2007, 11:19 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by PruBlue25 View Post
In terms of the PP, I think the lines are perfect, the strategy is what's wrong. The players say they don't like to shoot because they're afraid of a block that goes the other way. However, if they don't shoot they don't' score. The real answer in that is that they aren't moving the puck quickly and smoothly enough to make the defenders move and the defensemen aren't taking enough one timers. If the puck goes from the right boards to the left point in quick succession and there's a one-timer taken, no one is going to block that shot. They can't get there in time. If the shot is blocked in front of the net it's not as big of a deal as if it's blocked at the point. There's pretty much just as good of a chance of a blocked shot in front of the net as a deflection.
exactly what I have been saying. Also the forwards arent moving nearly as much as they should either. Pretty much everybody stays in one spot. Gotta keep the feet going.

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Old
12-13-2007, 11:21 AM
  #50
Fletch
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I guess my point...

was actually a bit sarcastic goes to coaching - I too would pick a PK guy given similiarly putrid offensive numbers - but Renney chooses not to use Cally on the PK to give guys a rest. So if Cally is not going to be used on the PK, then I'd keep Prucha over him. If Renney did the right thing and played Cally on the PK, then when Avery returns, Hossa drops to the third line and Prucha would sit (although ideally Cally replaces Hollweg on a fourth line and you'd have a guy with better offensive ability than Cally on a third line - ideally, that doesn't currently exist and Cally may someday become a better offensive player).

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