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Jagr Screams at Rozsival...

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Old
12-17-2007, 10:29 AM
  #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
Without replying to everything, how exactly is he helping the team right now? It is not his production, but his lack of production that is hurting the team. How? Because he is the team's best player, their "franchise" player. To have his production be so low is hurting the team.

What argument? That trading Jagr may not be such an outrageous idea? I have made an argument for trading him for far longer than you have been on this board. Go back and read up on the topic since the day the trade was made. Right now, he is sticking out like a sore thumb and has given no indication that his play will turnaround.

Having a different idea is hardly an example of having a nervous breakdown.

This argument has been explained to you several times, in several different ways and by several different people. If you are still not understanding various different points, I sugsgest you go back and "reconstruct" the argument.

How is he helping the team right now? He's the best player on the ice at all times. He takes the focus away from the other players on the team and faces every team's best defensive pairings all night, every night. He's still strong on the puck. He still sets up more scoring chances than anyone else on this team. That is not even debatable if you watch this team. Is the puck going in right now? No, but it's not going in for anyone. He's still generating scoring chances and is strong no the puck. Not producing at this point does not mean he's not helping. Once again, it's a losing streak. Get over it.

I've been on this board far longer than when I registered or bothered posting to respond to people like you. If you were still talking about trading him since he's come here from Washington then I have no respect for your opinion on the game. Look at his numbers since he's been here. Take your personal vendetta against him away, and if you still have been clamoring for a trade of Jagr for a while now then you're just down right crazy.

Your different idea=lunacy

Yes. This has been explained to me by a bunch of whackos who can't deal with losing a few games and think we need to blow the team up in order to fix it.

If this was Messier, would you feel differently?

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12-17-2007, 06:13 PM
  #177
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I'll acknowledge this much: Jagr facing the opposition's top pair, night in and night out, is a legitimate point. If Brendan Witt or Zdeno Chara or Wade Redden do not have Jagr to play against, they're going to be matched up against someone else.

However, that is not enough of a reason for me to wash out all of the good reasons that exist to trade the guy.

Attacking that point on it's own, who's to say other number one lines without a consensus number one guy, aren't more successful? These top pairing guys can shut Jagr's line down, because all they have to worry about is Jagr. Let's face it: prior to his arrival here, Marty Straka was not a first line player (neither is Brandon Dubinsky). This individual line issue also speaks to a greater team issue: if you shut Jagr down, you shut his line down; and if you shut Jagr down, you shut his team down.

Now, Jagr is not the only one playing poorly right now - everyone has a part to play. However, my argument remains the same: if you deal Jagr, it's going to free up enough leadership and creativity within the dressing room to a.) overcome Jagr's departure and b.) create a better, all-around team.

Without a Jagr in the lineup it may be more difficult for teams to get proper match-ups against us. Improving the minutes of guys like Drury and Gomez, while also getting EVERYONE within the room to fully buy into the system, may make us a multi-dimensional team.

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12-17-2007, 06:18 PM
  #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
If this was Messier, would you feel differently?
Sorry to jump in (it's all one big circular discussion anyways...), but the same sentiment existed back in 2003-2004 when Messier was here and it came largely from the same people.

There seems to be an overwhelming feeling of deja-vous here: aging veteran whose best years are behind him; the tactics of the team very much revolve around him, etc.

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12-17-2007, 10:19 PM
  #179
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Or it's just the bi-polar of the board. When it's up, it's way up. When it's down, it's the end of the world.

And like usual the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Jagr is not a 50 goal,120 point player anymore. That one is obvious and anyone expecting him to be that again is going to be disappointed.

However Jagr is still one of the most dangerous players on this team and until the younger guys who are supposedly in their prime start playing like they are, the attention is going to go to Jagr.

No one on this team is scoring like they should and so right now the attention falls to two players - Jagr and Shanahan. You take those two out of the equation and this team is even worse shape because the "guys in their primes" often look lost out there. Those guys start scoring and it forces other teams to avert their attention. Until that happens, teams no they can focus on Jagr and they've got a chance to hold this team to two goals or force them to get reckless and they can win the game by outscoring the Rangers.

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Old
12-17-2007, 10:33 PM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Or it's just the bi-polar of the board. When it's up, it's way up. When it's down, it's the end of the world.

And like usual the truth is somewhere in the middle.
Bingo. Its either the newbies having us winning the cup or the old guard on suicide watch. It would be tiring if it weren't so comical.

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Old
12-17-2007, 11:03 PM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Or it's just the bi-polar of the board. When it's up, it's way up. When it's down, it's the end of the world.

And like usual the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Jagr is not a 50 goal,120 point player anymore. That one is obvious and anyone expecting him to be that again is going to be disappointed.

However Jagr is still one of the most dangerous players on this team and until the younger guys who are supposedly in their prime start playing like they are, the attention is going to go to Jagr.

No one on this team is scoring like they should and so right now the attention falls to two players - Jagr and Shanahan. You take those two out of the equation and this team is even worse shape because the "guys in their primes" often look lost out there. Those guys start scoring and it forces other teams to avert their attention. Until that happens, teams no they can focus on Jagr and they've got a chance to hold this team to two goals or force them to get reckless and they can win the game by outscoring the Rangers.

I agree with this. I think in this case though it would be much easier for Jagr to get going if some OTHER guys on this team got going first. Take some pressure off him. Let him relax and just play.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE View Post
I'll acknowledge this much: Jagr facing the opposition's top pair, night in and night out, is a legitimate point. If Brendan Witt or Zdeno Chara or Wade Redden do not have Jagr to play against, they're going to be matched up against someone else.

However, that is not enough of a reason for me to wash out all of the good reasons that exist to trade the guy.

Attacking that point on it's own, who's to say other number one lines without a consensus number one guy, aren't more successful? These top pairing guys can shut Jagr's line down, because all they have to worry about is Jagr. Let's face it: prior to his arrival here, Marty Straka was not a first line player (neither is Brandon Dubinsky). This individual line issue also speaks to a greater team issue: if you shut Jagr down, you shut his line down; and if you shut Jagr down, you shut his team down.

Now, Jagr is not the only one playing poorly right now - everyone has a part to play. However, my argument remains the same: if you deal Jagr, it's going to free up enough leadership and creativity within the dressing room to a.) overcome Jagr's departure and b.) create a better, all-around team.

Without a Jagr in the lineup it may be more difficult for teams to get proper match-ups against us. Improving the minutes of guys like Drury and Gomez, while also getting EVERYONE within the room to fully buy into the system, may make us a multi-dimensional team.
I can see what you're saying. I think Drury needs to get top line minutes and I see your point at having an overall better top line. But I just don't feel that by getting rid of your best player that's making things better. Yankees fans all over wanted to get rid of A-Rod for a million reasons. And I can understand that. But like this, I don't see how getting rid of the best player helps you no matter what baggage comes along with it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE View Post
Sorry to jump in (it's all one big circular discussion anyways...), but the same sentiment existed back in 2003-2004 when Messier was here and it came largely from the same people.

There seems to be an overwhelming feeling of deja-vous here: aging veteran whose best years are behind him; the tactics of the team very much revolve around him, etc.
Good point. And I suppose the argument is when is enough finally enough? I'm just a loyal guy I guess. Right or wrong for it.

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Old
12-20-2007, 09:08 PM
  #182
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I'll repeat what I've said before.

Deep down there is that part of me that thinks this team might win AFTER Jagr and Shanahan are no longer Rangers.

Just like there is that part of me that thinks Renney will be the coach BEFORE they win the championship.

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Old
12-21-2007, 12:36 PM
  #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
I'll repeat what I've said before.

Deep down there is that part of me that thinks this team might win AFTER Jagr and Shanahan are no longer Rangers.

Just like there is that part of me that thinks Renney will be the coach BEFORE they win the championship.
2 years after or 10 years after?

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Old
12-21-2007, 12:40 PM
  #184
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Some Eklund Nonsense...

Some Eklund Nonsense...
Quote:
Well I have, and here's the latest:

There are people in the Rangers organization who are starting to question some of the "choices being made based around #68." One person I talked to today reiterated what I was told by a source "not as close to the scene." He said, "There comes a point when you start to ask yourself, 'How far do we go to make a single player comfortable.'"

The team that is most often linked to Jagr is Edmonton, although I have also heard the Penguins would make a serious pitch...
Don't know how true this is, but it's a little interesting. Maybe worthy of discussion, idk.

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Old
12-21-2007, 12:45 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by PruBlue25 View Post
Some Eklund Nonsense...


Don't know how true this is, but it's a little interesting. Maybe worthy of discussion, idk.
It'll be a cold day in hell before he plays in either of those places. And that's not meant to offend Pittsburghers or Edmontonians.

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12-21-2007, 12:47 PM
  #186
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It'll be a cold day in hell before he plays in either of those places. And that's not meant to offend Pittsburghers or Edmontonians.
Yeah, I kind of disregard that part, but the part about the Rangers org getting fed up with him is interesting.

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12-21-2007, 01:21 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by PruBlue25 View Post
Yeah, I kind of disregard that part, but the part about the Rangers org getting fed up with him is interesting.
What would it take to get him from you guys Edmonton has ALOT of assets to trade and he always said that he would like a chance to play with Hemsky.

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12-21-2007, 01:29 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by PruBlue25 View Post
Yeah, I kind of disregard that part, but the part about the Rangers org getting fed up with him is interesting.
Amazing that actually someone can make up FACT from eklund's fake report...

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12-21-2007, 01:39 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Kostik View Post
Amazing that actually someone can make up FACT from eklund's fake report...
It was just a question, I know E.K. trades are off the wall, I don't think that Edmonton even has any intrest, but I was just wondering what you guys think it would take to trade for him that's all

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Old
12-21-2007, 05:02 PM
  #190
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I played in a hockey league against a team of Czech players, they were always yelling at one another and it was hilarious.

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Old
12-21-2007, 06:11 PM
  #191
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So how long until they bring in Jagr's buddy Rucinsky?

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