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Old
01-21-2004, 06:48 PM
  #26
Digger12
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Originally Posted by FacelessButcher
I did
I know...I was waiting for you to chime in.

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01-21-2004, 07:28 PM
  #27
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Hmm, interestingly. Looking at the Oilers defensive depth for the future. Is there any other team that can match that? Besides Calgary with Leopold, Phaneuf, Regehr, Lydman, Ferrence and Ramholt.

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01-21-2004, 08:15 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by elphy101
Hmm, interestingly. Looking at the Oilers defensive depth for the future. Is there any other team that can match that? Besides Calgary with Leopold, Phaneuf, Regehr, Lydman, Ferrence and Ramholt.
Florida, Ottawa, Montreal all have enviable blue-line talent.

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01-21-2004, 09:49 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Bohologo
Florida, Ottawa, Montreal all have enviable blue-line talent.
Here is each teams depth chart. Using only defensemen under 25, NHL'ers and quality prospects.

Edmonton: Eric Brewer, Alexei Semenov, Doug Lynch, Jeff Wowitka, Matt Greene, and Marc-Andre Bergeron

Calgary: Jordan Leopold, Dion Phaneuf, Robyn Regehr, Andrew Ference, Tim Ramholt, and Mike Commodore

Florida: Jay Bowmeester, Mike Van Ryn, Branislav Mezei, Lukas Krajicek, Flip Novak, Mathieu Biron

Montreal: Andrei Markov(25 though), Mike Komisarek, Ron Hainsey, Konstantin Korneev

Ottawa: Chris Phillips(25 though), Anton Volchenkov, Karel Rachunek, Christoph Shubert, Mattias Karlsson. However if you add 26 year olds Chara and Redden, Ottawa has the best defense. But the core of Ottawa's defense is in it's prime, future wise they don't have the talent of the other teams in this listing although Volchenkov is a stud.

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01-21-2004, 09:50 PM
  #30
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Going by that list, Florida definitely has the best defense but Calgary and Edmonton are right up there if you ask me.

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01-22-2004, 03:16 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elphy101
Here is each teams depth chart. Using only defensemen under 25, NHL'ers and quality prospects.

Edmonton: Eric Brewer, Alexei Semenov, Doug Lynch, Jeff Wowitka, Matt Greene, and Marc-Andre Bergeron

Calgary: Jordan Leopold, Dion Phaneuf, Robyn Regehr, Andrew Ference, Tim Ramholt, and Mike Commodore

Florida: Jay Bowmeester, Mike Van Ryn, Branislav Mezei, Lukas Krajicek, Flip Novak, Mathieu Biron

Montreal: Andrei Markov(25 though), Mike Komisarek, Ron Hainsey, Konstantin Korneev

Ottawa: Chris Phillips(25 though), Anton Volchenkov, Karel Rachunek, Christoph Shubert, Mattias Karlsson. However if you add 26 year olds Chara and Redden, Ottawa has the best defense. But the core of Ottawa's defense is in it's prime, future wise they don't have the talent of the other teams in this listing although Volchenkov is a stud.
I would rank them:

1. Florida (no-brainer.. their potential top 4 is UNBELIEVABLE)
2. Edmonton (well first I'm a homer, but I think this group is deeper than Calgary's)
3. Calgary (Phaneuf will undoubtedly heat up the Battle of Alberta... what a stud this kid is)
4. Ottawa (like the A-train)
5. Montreal (i'm prejudiced against french people)

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01-22-2004, 04:43 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Boondock Saint
I would rank them:

1. Florida (no-brainer.. their potential top 4 is UNBELIEVABLE)
2. Edmonton (well first I'm a homer, but I think this group is deeper than Calgary's)
3. Calgary (Phaneuf will undoubtedly heat up the Battle of Alberta... what a stud this kid is)
4. Ottawa (like the A-train)
5. Montreal (i'm prejudiced against french people)
Interesting, I would be tempted to have Calgary 1st, Edmonton 2nd and Florida 3rd.

I think Calgary has three #1 defensemen in Leopold, Regehr and Phaneuf. You simply can't beat that. Edmonton definitely has more depth though.

I like the potential of Brewer, Semenov, Lynch, and Wowitka just as much if not more than Bowmeester, Krajicek, Van Ryn and Mezei.

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Old
01-22-2004, 11:21 AM
  #33
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1.. Calgary
2. Florida
3. Edmonton
4. Montreal
5. Ottawa

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Old
01-22-2004, 11:38 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elphy101
Interesting, I would be tempted to have Calgary 1st, Edmonton 2nd and Florida 3rd.

I think Calgary has three #1 defensemen in Leopold, Regehr and Phaneuf. You simply can't beat that. Edmonton definitely has more depth though.

I like the potential of Brewer, Semenov, Lynch, and Wowitka just as much if not more than Bowmeester, Krajicek, Van Ryn and Mezei.
I agree with you Calgary being 1st is really a no-brainer, Edmonton is lacking the top of the line quality to match Calgary's but has good quality all around for 2nd, Florida probably has the most talented d of the 3 but they are too soft and does not seem like a balanced unit with better coaching(hire Larry Robinson already!!) and better prospect development I would probably bump them to 2nd. All of Ottawa's D although quite good are already on the team and they got virtually nothing on the farm for their lack of depth I would put them 5th on the list of these teams and Montreal to 4th (psst.. gonna go out on a limb and say Hainsey will become a better defense man than the highly touted Komisarek you heard it here first).

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Old
01-22-2004, 01:43 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Digger12
Let's revisit this...if Brewer could be traded for Lecavalier straight across right now, would you do it?

It'd be tough, but I keep Brewer...barely.
That's a tough call Digger, way to put me on the spot. :p

I don't see Vinny play all that often, I know he has great size and his skill is obvious, but methinks that somethin's not quite right when he has just over 1/2 the points that Martin St Louis has.

Torres for example is a year younger than Vinny, plays 6 mins less per game, probably gets less powerplay time, has two more goals, the same # of points and is a +11 while Vinny is a -2.

5 years down the road is Vinny going to be a Conn Smythe candidate or a Chris Gratton clone?

Brewer is a guy that's living up to his potential and Vinny's not, so I'll go with the old "bird in the hand..." adage and pick Brewer.

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Old
01-22-2004, 02:30 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elphy101
Edmonton: Eric Brewer, Alexei Semenov, Doug Lynch, Jeff Wowitka, Matt Greene, and Marc-Andre Bergeron

Calgary: Jordan Leopold, Dion Phaneuf, Robyn Regehr, Andrew Ference, Tim Ramholt, and Mike Commodore

Florida: Jay Bowmeester, Mike Van Ryn, Branislav Mezei, Lukas Krajicek, Flip Novak, Mathieu Biron

Montreal: Andrei Markov(25 though), Mike Komisarek, Ron Hainsey, Konstantin Korneev

Ottawa: Chris Phillips(25 though), Anton Volchenkov, Karel Rachunek, Christoph Shubert, Mattias Karlsson. However if you add 26 year olds Chara and Redden, Ottawa has the best defense.
Edm - Brewer and Semenov are already showing their stuff to be high calibre in the nhl and Bergeron is making a case for himself there as well. From the prospects Lynch is a guy that I have no doubts about whatsoever, and Grrene and Woywitka can't be rated much lower.

Cal - Similar to Edm in that some of their d-men are doing pretty damn good in the nhl. Ference, Regehr, and Leopold are all looking at long productive careers from the way things have been going. Mike Commodore however is still playing a lot of ahl hockey at 24 to be considered along with the rest of these guys. Phaneuf is approximately = to Woywitka in terms of junior achievements and draft status so that's a tie. Now you're looking at Lynch and Greene vs Ramholt. I'll take the Oil over Cal by a slight margin.

Fla - I'm a huge Mike Van Ryn fan, I think he'll be an elite nhl d-man in years to come. JBo = whatever he pushes himself to become. A career better than that of C Pronger isn't out of the question. The rest are all studs, a couple guys over 6'5", some speed and scoring in Novak and especially Krajicek. No team could possibly be ranked ahead of these guys in potential, it's only in nhl experience and proven performance where a case can be made against them right now. That's where it gets tough to rank them vs Cal and Edm imo.

Mtl and Ott - Their d-men are in the same boat with Fla's in terms of not having shown a lot at the nhl level yet, and they're not as highly rated from their junior accomplishments as Fla's squad either. These two are at the bottom.


1)Edm
2)Fla
3)Cal

This is mostly from an Oiler fan pov. I wouldn't trade the Oil's crew for Cal or Fla's gang, but of the two I'd be more inclined to grab Fla's guys if I had to do a 6 for 6 swap so I ranked Fla #2.

I doubt if Fla or Cal would want to do a swap either so I would be surprised if their fans wouldn't rate their own d highest.

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Old
01-22-2004, 03:09 PM
  #37
elphy101
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Originally Posted by FacelessButcher
(psst.. gonna go out on a limb and say Hainsey will become a better defense man than the highly touted Komisarek you heard it here first).
Hmm, interesting.

I'd be willing to go out on a limb and say Hainsey will never be more than a 6th dman in the NHL if he is ever capable of earning a steady paycheck up there.

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Old
01-22-2004, 04:30 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elphy101
Here is each teams depth chart. Using only defensemen under 25, NHL'ers and quality prospects.

Edmonton: Eric Brewer, Alexei Semenov, Doug Lynch, Jeff Wowitka, Matt Greene, and Marc-Andre Bergeron

Calgary: Jordan Leopold, Dion Phaneuf, Robyn Regehr, Andrew Ference, Tim Ramholt, and Mike Commodore

Florida: Jay Bowmeester, Mike Van Ryn, Branislav Mezei, Lukas Krajicek, Flip Novak, Mathieu Biron
Intriguing question elphy!

1) Florida - trades are evaluated by who got the best player. Who has the Best D-Man? Bouwmeester. He has Chris Pronger potential. None of the others dmen mentioned have that. Van Ryn is no pipedream either. He's the real deal (I have him in my fantasy draft). Mezei, Novak and Biron all have NHL experience.

That was easy. Next is tough. EDM and CAL are very close
Brewer + Semenov = Leopold + Regehr. Very close. Hard to evaluate the future.
Ference > Bergeron. Difficult to say if Bergs is the next Rafalski or the next Greg Hawgood? But Ference has been playing the NHL for the past several years. This is Bergeron's first. Again. a tough call.
Woywitka = Phaneuf. Who knows. All the hype seems to be fairly even.

2) Calgary - by a thread

3) EDM

4) Montreal - is over Ottawa simply because unless Ottawa makes some huge changes on their D, I don't see their young D (with the exception of Volchenkov) getting game minutes. While Montreal needs their Dmen NOW.

5) Ottawa

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