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Old
12-18-2007, 09:11 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Stevens is doing a miserable job with this team... and this team doesn't have realistic Cup chances the way they're playing today... any team that plays a tight game is going to cause them massive problems.
Flyers needs:
1. Good coach
2. Gagne back and healthy
3. Dead line trade for a d-man.

I think those 3 would improve our chances to become a cup contender.

IMO
Devils are mediocre one line team with great goaltending and awesome coaching.

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12-18-2007, 09:14 AM
  #52
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The frustrating thing is, if everyone was on the same page and looked more like a team, i think we could have realistic cup chances. We have the players here but something isn't clicking... i'm wearing thin on patience with Stevens
they have more than enough talent at forward, and probably lack a truly reliable two-way guy... Randy Jones has improved, but still has too many "Randy Jones moments." however, the fact that they can take on anyone who will play pond hockey with them and struggle against anyone who is going to show up and play a methodical game is getting old... they've gotten better in a few areas that were causing problems, but not nearly enough.

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12-18-2007, 09:21 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Flyers needs:
1. Good coach
2. Gagne back and healthy
3. Dead line trade for a d-man.

I think those 3 would improve our chances to become a cup contender.

IMO
Devils are mediocre one line team with great goaltending and awesome coaching
.
i think that's a bit harsh, but closer to the mark than those saying they have the same level of skaters as the Flyers... their skaters drop off in offensive ability quickly, and the defense is generally lacking in offensive ability (we have 3 defensemen with more points than their leading scorer, and Martin is the only guy in double figures for them).

i think with a good coach and a team playing a competent game we'd be a contender today... we have firepower up front, have been getting good goaltending, a strong PP, and a middling PK... our problem is that we give up too many shots and don't control the play enough.

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12-18-2007, 09:47 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
i think that's a bit harsh, but closer to the mark than those saying they have the same level of skaters as the Flyers... their skaters drop off in offensive ability quickly, and the defense is generally lacking in offensive ability (we have 3 defensemen with more points than their leading scorer, and Martin is the only guy in double figures for them).

i think with a good coach and a team playing a competent game we'd be a contender today... we have firepower up front, have been getting good goaltending, a strong PP, and a middling PK... our problem is that we give up too many shots and don't control the play enough.
Ok it was a bit harsh, sorry.

Our problem is that both of our head coaches in NHL and AHL are 100% morons. Look at Eager and the way he plays after Berruby was his coach for only a year.

When reporters ask Stevens about slow starts and consistency, he has no answer.. When you have no answers and you can not explain why you can not do your job, what happens? We are talking about the same god damn problem for over 30 games now.

Just want to point out that Flyers do not have any chemistry problems like Rangers. No scoring problems like Devils or NYI, no real PK problems like Pittsburgh, no real goaltending problems, no speed issues or creativity with a puck, we do not have a soft team or very injured team like last year or the year before, we have enough leaders, enough veterans or young players... We have a good GM with a vision.

This team has no system after 30 games, no game plan. ****!!!


Last edited by Kaktus*: 12-18-2007 at 10:12 AM.
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12-18-2007, 09:56 AM
  #55
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Upshall is a waste
Umm, no.....

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Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan View Post
Our coach has been struggling with giving him playing time.
Yes, I dont know why they are still so stuck on leaving him with Carter. Give him a shot with Briere. Knuble fits the way Carter plays as well and lets face it, having Tolpecko playing with them shows that Stevens isnt looking for much offense from that line at this point.

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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
of course you do, but the vast majority of the hockey world reached that conclusion two years ago when Sutter was one of the most coveted coaches in hockey and Stevens was getting nice to meet you interviews and getting passed over for NHL jobs.
I am about ready to say that I dont like Stevens....

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12-18-2007, 10:24 AM
  #56
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yes he is, he was the best player on the ice, i mean the penalty shot, all those pp's plus he makes difficult saves look casual, all im saying is if marty didnt play yesterday we dont win
I disagree. Kevin Weekes wins that game too. I dont think Philly had much sustained offense until about 10 minutes left in the game. The penalty shot? It was one of the lamest efforts you'll ever see on a PS. Briere himself admitted he probably was thinking too much and kinda changed his mind. I could just as easily say that without the refs handing the Flyers gifts that game like Halloween candy it probably should have been a 4 goal Devils win. The 4 minute penalty kill on the Elias Major for high sticking when it was a Flyers stick that whacked another flyer in the face? The Gionta goal that was disallowed on a phantom hooking call? etc.....

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12-18-2007, 10:28 AM
  #57
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I disagree. Kevin Weekes wins that game too. I dont think Philly had much sustained offense until about 10 minutes left in the game. The penalty shot? It was one of the lamest efforts you'll ever see on a PS. Briere himself admitted he probably was thinking too much and kinda changed his mind. I could just as easily say that without the refs handing the Flyers gifts that game like Halloween candy it probably should have been a 4 goal Devils win. The 4 minute penalty kill on the Elias Major for high sticking when it was a Flyers stick that whacked another flyer in the face? The Gionta goal that was disallowed on a phantom hooking call? etc.....
my god you're a whiner... take this crap to your own board.

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12-18-2007, 10:37 AM
  #58
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Quote:
IMO
Devils are mediocre one line team with great goaltending and awesome coaching
How are the Devils a one line team with the likes of Parise, Gionta, Langenbrunner, Zubrus, Zajac, Elias, and Madden?

The Devils scoring has been evenly distributed between all three lines this season.

Elias + Zubrus + Gionta = 22
Parise + Zajac + Langenbrunner = 25
Pandolfo + Madden + Clarkson = 22
Asham + Pelley + Brylin = 9

Not all of these guys have been together for the season, but this is enough to show the Devils have very well balanced scoring.

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12-18-2007, 10:43 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post
How are the Devils a one line team with the likes of Parise, Gionta, Langenbrunner, Zubrus, Zajac, Elias, and Madden?

The Devils scoring has been evenly distributed between all three lines this season.

Elias + Zubrus + Gionta = 22
Parise + Zajac + Langenbrunner = 25
Pandolfo + Madden + Clarkson = 22
Asham + Pelley + Brylin = 9

Not all of these guys have been together for the season, but this is enough to show the Devils have very well balanced scoring.
Devils will not be able to keep it up. IMO 20th in scoring? impressive? Madden is playing out of his mind and scores.

Parise + Zajac + Langenbrunner = 25 <~~~ You best line.

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12-18-2007, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Devils will not be able to keep it up. IMO 20th in scoring? impressive? Madden is playing out of his mind and scores.

Parise + Zajac + Langenbrunner = 25 <~~~ You best line.
I never claimed the Devils were an offensive powerhouse, but you stated they were a one line team, which is pretty incorrect.

That's our best line by a margin of three goals. Anyway, Sutter shifts things in the top six so much that we'll see a new trio by tonight, probably.

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12-18-2007, 11:07 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post
I never claimed the Devils were an offensive powerhouse, but you stated they were a one line team, which is pretty incorrect.

That's our best line by a margin of three goals. Anyway, Sutter shifts things in the top six so much that we'll see a new trio by tonight, probably.
Madden and Pandolfo are shooting out of their minds right now... the return of Langenbrunner is a huge return of course... and the struggles of Elias mitigate focusing on Madden and Pandolfo's production jump too much (mildly amazing he only has 6 goals).

As stated, i thought his assessment was harsh... but it's closer to the mark than some. "balanced" scoring is nice and all, but the Devils need a bit more firepower... a slew of 40 pt guys with a few guys capable of more than that is borderline anemic. The fact that a PP against the Flyers in the early going (due to injuries, of course) featured Madden and Asham as two of the forwards puts on full display the lack of offensive depth on that club... I love Madden as a player, and he's certainly not incompetent with the puck, and Asham is a fine role player capable of chipping in... but that's not what you'd expect to see on a competitive teams PP unit.

The team is, however, extremely well coached and they've gotten it together now that Brodeur has gotten his game in order... I would still be surprised if they win the division in the long run... but the Flyers inability to play tight hockey is sending them tumbling down the standings, so they won't be an issue unless they resolve that. I remain of the opinion that the Rangers are ultimately going to put together a run here, while Pittsburgh has righted their ship as well... it's a tight division as expected...

and when that happens, coaching is terribly important and the fact that this club is bleeding points is a problem.

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12-18-2007, 11:16 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Ok it was a bit harsh, sorry.

Our problem is that both of our head coaches in NHL and AHL are 100% morons. Look at Eager and the way he plays after Berruby was his coach for only a year.

When reporters ask Stevens about slow starts and consistency, he has no answer.. When you have no answers and you can not explain why you can not do your job, what happens? We are talking about the same god damn problem for over 30 games now.

Just want to point out that Flyers do not have any chemistry problems like Rangers. No scoring problems like Devils or NYI, no real PK problems like Pittsburgh, no real goaltending problems, no speed issues or creativity with a puck, we do not have a soft team or very injured team like last year or the year before, we have enough leaders, enough veterans or young players... We have a good GM with a vision.

This team has no system after 30 games, no game plan. ****!!!
Hey, it only took you almost 5000 posts to say something I can agree with.

There's a lot on the coach now, you're right. We have the pieces. Yeah, we need Gagne, but this is a good team on paper that needs to be coached into a good team on the ice.

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12-18-2007, 11:32 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Devils will not be able to keep it up. IMO 20th in scoring? impressive? Madden is playing out of his mind and scores.

Parise + Zajac + Langenbrunner = 25 <~~~ You best line.
And your basing this on what?

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12-18-2007, 11:36 AM
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And your basing this on what?
Nothing. He can't back up 99% of what he says. I wouldn't sweat it.

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12-18-2007, 11:37 AM
  #65
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And your basing this on what?
I think the Devs are doing exactly what you'd expect them to be doing now that Brodeur is playing like... well, Brodeur. However, he's been doing a good month paired with bad month routines for a few years now, so I'd expect another rough patch a la October to resurface at some point in the season...

Devs are 23rd in scoring or whatever, and 6th in team defense... sounds about right. That isn't the most talented team ever, and I think they're in first more due to the struggles of the Rangers and Penguins - both teams I expected more from. The Flyers should be able to compete for that spot, which a view of the standings tells you they are... but we're in the midst of a consistent decline which shows no signs of halting. So, I'd bet the Devs putter along at what they're doing with some rough patches mixed in and it's up to the other teams to catch up...

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12-18-2007, 11:37 AM
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Nothing. He can't back up 99% of what he says. I wouldn't sweat it.
Yeah, I don't expect him to back this up either but I figure I would ask anyway.

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12-18-2007, 11:41 AM
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Yeah, I don't expect him to back this up either but I figure I would ask anyway.
At least the response will be entertaining

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12-18-2007, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I think the Devs are doing exactly what you'd expect them to be doing now that Brodeur is playing like... well, Brodeur. However, he's been doing a good month paired with bad month routines for a few years now, so I'd expect another rough patch a la October to resurface at some point in the season...

Devs are 23rd in scoring or whatever, and 6th in team defense... sounds about right. That isn't the most talented team ever, and I think they're in first more due to the struggles of the Rangers and Penguins - both teams I expected more from. The Flyers should be able to compete for that spot, which a view of the standings tells you they are... but we're in the midst of a consistent decline which shows no signs of halting. So, I'd bet the Devs putter along at what they're doing with some rough patches mixed in and it's up to the other teams to catch up...
Actually that rough spot was because of a new coach, new system, new players and a road schedule from hell. We might stumble here and there but I wouldn't bet on us pulling another October. That was a mess.


Could it happen? Hell yeah, but like I just said, I wouldn't put money on it.

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12-18-2007, 11:47 AM
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Actually that rough spot was because of a new coach, new system, new players and a road schedule from hell. We might stumble here and there but I wouldn't bet on us pulling another October. That was a mess.


Could it happen? Hell yeah, but like I just said, I wouldn't put money on it.
because of the Devils lack of scoring the last couple of years, you can directly tie their hot streaks and cold streaks to one stat: Martin Brodeur's SVPCT. in October he was an .885... in November he was a .929.

was that other stuff factoring in? sure, but a huge factor the last few years when the Devils have begun to really struggle for offense at times is Brodeur... and he simply wasn't getting it done in October. he had a horrid game against the Flyers in that 4-0 loss, for example.

the system that Sutter has instituted and everything else that everybody is doing on that roster looks great when Brodeur is playing well behind them... just as Biron was masking a ton of issues with this Flyers club in October. not saying the rough patches will be as bad as October, but I would expect a slump month at some point.

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12-18-2007, 11:59 AM
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because of the Devils lack of scoring the last couple of years, you can directly tie their hot streaks and cold streaks to one stat: Martin Brodeur's SVPCT. in October he was an .885... in November he was a .929.

was that other stuff factoring in? sure, but a huge factor the last few years when the Devils have begun to really struggle for offense at times is Brodeur... and he simply wasn't getting it done in October. he had a horrid game against the Flyers in that 4-0 loss, for example.

the system that Sutter has instituted and everything else that everybody is doing on that roster looks great when Brodeur is playing well behind them... just as Biron was masking a ton of issues with this Flyers club in October. not saying the rough patches will be as bad as October, but I would expect a slump month at some point.
But the Devils have always struggled in October, it has nothing to do with lack of scoring but more of we are built for the 2nd half of the season for they are more of unit of one than most teams in this league meaning when they play if they are not in sync, you can beat them quite easily and when they are in sync it's quite the opposite.

And of course their play reflects from Brodeur's play, but you can say that for just about every team in the league who live and die on the play of their goalie.

I mean look at the Rangers and Lundquist who has not been sharp the past month and it's no coincidence that the Rangers have struggled.

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12-18-2007, 12:09 PM
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But the Devils have always struggled in October, it has nothing to do with lack of scoring but more of we are built for the 2nd half of the season for they are more of unit of one than most teams in this league meaning when they play if they are not in sync, you can beat them quite easily and when they are in sync it's quite the opposite.

And of course their play reflects from Brodeur's play, but you can say that for just about every team in the league who live and die on the play of their goalie.

I mean look at the Rangers and Lundquist who has not been sharp the past month and it's no coincidence that the Rangers have struggled.
A team with even worse scoring problems than the Devils thus far... pretty much proving my point. You can get away with murder as a goalie if your offense can pick you up, neither team has done so... nor would I expect them to in the Devs case (Rangers are very surprising, IMO).

To an extent what I'm saying is an obvious point, yes. However, writing off the struggles of October to simply meshing is overlooking the more obvious reason for the struggles... Brodeur wasn't playing all that great... hurt that White and Langenbrunner weren't around either. Might the Devs weather another Brodeur slump in the future better? maybe. If you go back, though, and breakdown the Devs seasons their win streaks and everything else all directly correlate to Brodeur really getting his game together... he's become a somewhat streaky goalie, albeit we're talking about long stretches.

The Devils have ridden one of those stretches to the top of the standings in the Atlantic... maybe Brodeur settles into a consistent .920+ for the rest of the year, but he's been doing these months of .930 and months of .895 in the past few seasons... always averages out to a good season and when he's on when the playoffs strike, the Devs are pretty much unbeatable. However, when he's off when the playoffs strike... away they go.

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12-18-2007, 12:30 PM
  #72
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my god you're a whiner... take this crap to your own board.
Huh? That's great, but nothing I said in the paragraph was untrue.

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12-18-2007, 12:36 PM
  #73
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And your basing this on what?
Has best player in Parise and a leader in Langenbrunner..

Zubrus is inconsistent clown. Elias did not have a good season since 2005 (do not tell me he is having a good season now)

Madden, as great as he on D, I did/do not expect him to score more then 40. He is 35pts per season player who is having a career year. Madden line will slow down and so will Pondofolo (who by the way also having a career year in scoring).

Also I think NJ d-nce is playing waaaay above their heads, thanks to Sutter.

Marty is Marty.. I expected nothing less from him.

Once injuries occur and I do mean ANY injury to any top 9 players NJD will have troubles.

Stevens is not the answer for this team just because he can not get maximum out of every player and thats why we are where we are, behind Devils.

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At least the response will be entertaining
I have an idea for you.. Ignore me and you will never have to read what I have to say ever again. Not that I give a **** about your opinion anyway.


Last edited by Kaktus*: 12-18-2007 at 01:06 PM.
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12-18-2007, 12:51 PM
  #74
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Huh? That's great, but nothing I said in the paragraph was untrue.
you were whining about the officiating in a game that has nothing to do with this thread on the Flyers board... take it to the Devs board, preferably the GDT... as no one wants to read about it over here.

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12-18-2007, 01:05 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Has best player in Parise and a leader in Langenbrunner..

Zubrus is inconsistent clown. Elias did not have a good season since 2005 (do not tell me he is having a good season now)

Madden, as great as he on D, I did/do not expect him to score more then 40. He is 35pts per season player who is having a career year. Madden line will slow down and so will Pondofolo (who by the way also having a career year in scoring).

Also I think NJ d-nce is playing waaaay above their heads, thanks to Sutter.

Marty is Marty.. I expected nothing less from him.

Once injuries occur and I do mean ANY injury to any top 9 players NJD will have troubles..

I remember you in the summer selling us short like you are trying to do now. After being proven wrong you think you would learn your lesson about doubting the New Jersey Devils.

A few things:

1) How exactly is a Zubrus a clown? He has been a VERY effective player for us.
2) Your say Madden and Pando will cool off, again, you know this how?
3) If the Devils Dmen is playing over their head it's because of Larry Robinson, not Sutter.
4) We are already without one of our top players in Pando and we haven't exactly struggle, so there goes that theory down in flames.

I'm mean seriously, we have won the Atlantic division two years running and have shot to the top in a matter of weeks, but yet here we are again with a familiar theme.

Nothing surprises me anymore.

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