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Old
12-17-2007, 05:54 PM
  #51
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Ok, so bear with me here.

Andy Strickland apparently reported () on his show that next game the Blues could be moving Backes to center and putting Stempniak and Perron on his wings. Now even while I try to contain myself given the source, let me just say that this line sounds friggin awesome. It also raises some questions, would this mean that Tkachuk is going to be moved back to wing given his struggles, or does this mean that McClement will earn a trip to the pressbox for pretty much sucking it up? Either way, if this is accurate, it certainly answers my wishes as

Kariya McDonald Boyes
Stempniak Backes Perron

actually has more potential than the old unproductive players we've been trying in our top 6

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Old
12-17-2007, 06:22 PM
  #52
BluesDarb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Checker View Post
Ok, so bear with me here.

Andy Strickland apparently reported () on his show that next game the Blues could be moving Backes to center and putting Stempniak and Perron on his wings. Now even while I try to contain myself given the source, let me just say that this line sounds friggin awesome. It also raises some questions, would this mean that Tkachuk is going to be moved back to wing given his struggles, or does this mean that McClement will earn a trip to the pressbox for pretty much sucking it up? Either way, if this is accurate, it certainly answers my wishes as

Kariya McDonald Boyes
Stempniak Backes Perron

actually has more potential than the old unproductive players we've been trying in our top 6
Pretty sure that would be our 3rd line....even though AM doesn't use those terms.

I think that would leave KT, MR, and MJ or JM as 2nd

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12-17-2007, 06:44 PM
  #53
milieu bluez
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Checker View Post
McClement will earn a trip to the pressbox for pretty much sucking it up?
I can't see your point here. McClement I believe to be are only solid player every shift. The guy does everything good and nothing bad. He makes plays, hits (including open ice), wins battles along the boards and plays great D. I'm realy shocked to here someone say something negative about him. But I guess its all in what you notice about a player. I'm not ripping you by any means, just surprised enough to defined his play.

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Old
12-17-2007, 06:52 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by milieu bluez View Post
I can't see your point here. McClement I believe to be are only solid player every shift. The guy does everything good and nothing bad. He makes plays, hits (including open ice), wins battles along the boards and plays great D. I'm realy shocked to here someone say something negative about him. But I guess its all in what you notice about a player. I'm not ripping you by any means, just surprised enough to defined his play.
He's had a few pretty noticeable bad defensive games (or at least bad defensive moments which soured his games) out of our last 10-15 games. Given the offensive upside he hinted at last season has not been expanded upon this season, it makes those bad defensive games stand out even more. It may just be that I had higher expectations for him this season, but I truly believe that McClement is capable of playing much better than he has shown lately. I know that McClement's number 1 priority is going to be his defense (which again makes his lapses more crucial), but it bothers me when no matter what wingers have been on his side, the line has been offensively inept.


Last edited by Checker*: 12-17-2007 at 06:58 PM.
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Old
12-17-2007, 09:50 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Checker View Post
He's had a few pretty noticeable bad defensive games (or at least bad defensive moments which soured his games) out of our last 10-15 games. Given the offensive upside he hinted at last season has not been expanded upon this season, it makes those bad defensive games stand out even more. It may just be that I had higher expectations for him this season, but I truly believe that McClement is capable of playing much better than he has shown lately. I know that McClement's number 1 priority is going to be his defense (which again makes his lapses more crucial), but it bothers me when no matter what wingers have been on his side, the line has been offensively inept.
You will be hard pressed to find anyone who agrees with your assessment of McClement having bad defensive games or particularly bad defensive moments. The Blues are fantastic defensively (all except the past few games) and McClement might just be the most consistently responsible player on the team. That's not to say he's perfect (no one is), however, I think you're making it much, much worse than it is.

Here are the problems with McClement this year:
1. Stempniak. He was making some so-so decisions for most of the season, playing without much confidence, and simply not getting it done. Sometimes he didn't even play with Stempniak and was pushed to pure fourth line duty. McClement is a passer, so if his linemates aren't doing well, he can't force them into good positions or take their shots for them. That leads to...
2. His right-wing. At first this was Backes, who has severely underperformed, even taking his injury into consideration. He's a good forechecker and he plays hard, but he was a lot more offensively dynamic last season. He made nicer plays, stickhandled more, got off better shots, and probably most notably, went hard to the net. Recently, Jay's wing has been Mayers. Which is because of...
3. Shut-down duty. McClement and Stempniak have been charged with being the shut-down line. Which is a problem because this job should belong to a checking line rather than a line from which you want to see scoring. This job lowers the point-production of even the most talented players.

Stempniak has picked up his play, Backes has moved back onto the line sometimes, and wouldn't you know it, McClement has four points in his last five games. The only objectively quantifiable let-down from McClement this season is his faceoff performance, which has also improved lately. If McClement plays with players who consistently perform well offensively and he doesn't match it, then you can critique his production. It's not like he has gotten shifts with Boyes and Kariya. Only during the past, oh, ten games has Stempniak performed, and McClement has turned it up, too.

The secondary scoring woes that St. Louis has are certainly due to underperformance (Backes, Stempniak, Weight), but they are more due to a bad powerplay and an inconsistent transition game. If EJ and Wagner played every game, you'd have more dangerous puck movement, resulting in more scoring from the third line (guys like McClement, Backes, Mayers, Rucinsky).

Regarding Backes at center...I say good. We won't know how it'll be until we see it. So bring it on. I'm not sure it should take a three or four game losing streak to generate significant line juggling, but I'm glad to see it either way.

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Old
12-17-2007, 10:26 PM
  #56
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First off, let me just say I could give a damn if people agree with me or not on here...I'd rather be right than Mr. Popularity. Second, here's what you had to say about McClement within the month.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rumrokh View Post
I really like Jay McClement as a player, but yea, he's definitely not having his best year. .
So, which is it? Is he having a down year or is it everyone else's fault?

Finally as far as his defensive lapses go, I should have qualified that by saying he's been poor for his role. I seem to remember one game in particular where the announcers got on McClement for having two mistakes that led directly to goals. To be fair, when this happens to Brewer, we get whole threads on his uselessness. McClement is one of our best defensive players, but in the last 10-15 games, he's had a few that were unacceptable for him and unacceptable for anyone playing the role of shut-down center.

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Old
12-17-2007, 11:06 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Checker View Post
First off, let me just say I could give a damn if people agree with me or not on here...I'd rather be right than Mr. Popularity. Second, here's what you had to say about McClement within the month.


So, which is it? Is he having a down year or is it everyone else's fault?

Finally as far as his defensive lapses go, I should have qualified that by saying he's been poor for his role. I seem to remember one game in particular where the announcers got on McClement for having two mistakes that led directly to goals. To be fair, when this happens to Brewer, we get whole threads on his uselessness. McClement is one of our best defensive players, but in the last 10-15 games, he's had a few that were unacceptable for him and unacceptable for anyone playing the role of shut-down center.
Just because he isn't having his best year, that doesn't mean he isn't playing well. You bring up the announcers picking on his play, yet you don't care what other people think? As a matter of fact, the post from which you took my quote was in response to that game in particular. I explained why I thought the announcers were wrong in their analysis of McClement on those plays. It just goes to show how much the announcers can color the perspective of the viewers.

A guy can play well and still not produce. Another guy can play so-so and get all the luck. But at the end of the day, you still want the guy who produces because production matters. I was explaining why McClement hadn't been producing like some of us would like. That means he hasn't had the best year, but he hasn't had a bad year either. Notice how I'm avoiding extremes. I don't have to take the stance that McClement has been bad and needs to be benched. And I don't have to take the stance that McClement has been playing his best hockey. Because neither is true.

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Old
12-17-2007, 11:34 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rumrokh View Post
Just because he isn't having his best year, that doesn't mean he isn't playing well. You bring up the announcers picking on his play, yet you don't care what other people think? As a matter of fact, the post from which you took my quote was in response to that game in particular. I explained why I thought the announcers were wrong in their analysis of McClement on those plays. It just goes to show how much the announcers can color the perspective of the viewers.

A guy can play well and still not produce. Another guy can play so-so and get all the luck. But at the end of the day, you still want the guy who produces because production matters. I was explaining why McClement hadn't been producing like some of us would like. That means he hasn't had the best year, but he hasn't had a bad year either. Notice how I'm avoiding extremes. I don't have to take the stance that McClement has been bad and needs to be benched. And I don't have to take the stance that McClement has been playing his best hockey. Because neither is true.

I said I don't care if other people on here agree with me or not. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'll supplement my ideas with opinions of the "experts" if I agree with their analysis. I figure if I notice something and so does an ex-hockey player or someone who follows hockey to pay the bills...I feel more comfortable with my observation. However, just because a hockey person says something (Perron's icetime) doesn't mean I'll blindly agree. As far as people on here go, we're all pretty much non-experts (myself included though I can have a bit of an ego at times). Even if an opinion is a majority opinion, I still don't put that much faith in it. After all, if someone would have posted the question on these boards "do you think Weight/a mid level prospect/and a 7th rounder could land Andy McDonald", something tells me the majority opinion would have been the wrong answer.

As far as McClement goes, earlier in the season, his offensive woes were disappointing yet acceptable given his admirable job in shutdown duty. Lately he's been playing a noticeable role on some of the opposition's goals and his offensive output still isn't up to par. In a word, he's been...disappointing. I don't think the idea is to put him in the pressbox and keep him there because he's the worst forward we have. The idea is to give him a couple of games to wake him up and hopefully get him back to the level he played at earlier this season, if not last year. To tell you the truth I'd like to see Tkachuk get the pressbox treatment before Jay given his play lately, but I doubt Andy Murray has the stones to do it.

Overall though, I do respect your opinion and analysis on this issue...I just don't agree.

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