HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Rumor/Proposal: Marian Hossa Available

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-17-2007, 11:51 AM
  #26
MortUWary
Registered Loser
 
MortUWary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 1,192
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
And Jagr is "getting something"? A guy who is on the downside of his career who would be one year from being a UFA (assuming he picks up his player option for 08-09). Not to mention if he's traded, that team gets the full cap hit?

And if you're not worried about getting players who can help you this season, why would you want Jagr? And the best deal you could get would not be Jagr. Look at what the Flyers got for Forsberg and then go from there. That's the best deal. Not Jagr.
Based on what Waddell is reportedly looking for (players to help the team make the playoffs,) then YES. As far as the subsidy from the Capitals, I had read somewhere that from the inception of the cap from the lockout that his cap number will be the same if he is traded. I'll try to unearth that from somewhere if you'd like me to.

You are seriously undervaluing Jagr. Because Holmgren took Nashville for a ride, a ride in which they got players for the FUTURE and not to help them last season, do you think every trade is going to go down like that? Look at what Doug Wilson gave up for Joe Thornton. Not every circumstance is the same.

MortUWary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2007, 11:52 AM
  #27
MortUWary
Registered Loser
 
MortUWary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 1,192
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I agree with you on this point, but you kinda contradicted yourself on your very next post
How is that a contradiction? I was diplomatically telling him that his trade offer was garbage.

MortUWary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2007, 11:53 AM
  #28
coolbean04
Registered User
 
coolbean04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,735
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
But they've said that's not what they want.

If you can get 60 games of magic between Kovalchuk and Jagr, maybe you've a better offense than you had with Hossa?
Sure that sounds great if we're the only package out there. You don't think teams can offer players in the NHL that are signed for a couple years still while being young?

I'm sure SJ WOULD LOVE to get him and would start a trade with Cheechoo and others.

coolbean04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2007, 11:56 AM
  #29
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 30,007
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
But they've said that's not what they want.

If you can get 60 games of magic between Kovalchuk and Jagr, maybe you've a better offense than you had with Hossa?
But then what?

Look, I would trade Jagr for Hossa in a heartbeat. I really don't see how that deal helps the Thrashers.

__________________
SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2007, 11:58 AM
  #30
MortUWary
Registered Loser
 
MortUWary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 1,192
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolbean04 View Post
Sure that sounds great if we're the only package out there. You don't think teams can offer players in the NHL that are signed for a couple years still while being young?
It all depends on what Waddell truly wants. If he's a wise GM, he will shop around for the best offer, unlike what Boston did when they Traded Thornton out of the blue for a pretty raw deal. That's not second guessing, by the way. EVERYONE panned that deal when it was done.

However, don't underestimate the relationship between Waddell and Sather. They've done business in the past (most recently Dupuis for Bourret/3rd) and Waddell has picked up former Sather acquisitions (Rucchin and Holik come to mind.)

MortUWary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2007, 12:00 PM
  #31
coolbean04
Registered User
 
coolbean04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,735
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolbean04 View Post
Sure that sounds great if we're the only package out there. You don't think teams can offer players in the NHL that are signed for a couple years still while being young?

I'm sure SJ WOULD LOVE to get him and would start a trade with Cheechoo and others.
I can see SJ offering

Cheechoo

1 of Michalek/Bernier/Setoguchi

1st round pick

For Hossa and that's more than anything that we can offer.

coolbean04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2007, 12:03 PM
  #32
MortUWary
Registered Loser
 
MortUWary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 1,192
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
But then what?

Look, I would trade Jagr for Hossa in a heartbeat. I really don't see how that deal helps the Thrashers.
I understand your reservations and this was all meant to spark up some discussion as to whether or not this is something that either team would pursue with the other. There is a segment of Thrashers fans who are rabid and would buy Jagr jerseys and go to a few more games if a deal is made. There is always a spike in merchandise sales when a big name is traded to a new team. Waddell's goal is making the playoffs and generating the extra revenue from the home playoff games.

If that is truly his goal, then there may be some credence to this being a potential fit and bring something of value for an impending UFA who is set to leave town for nothing.

MortUWary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2007, 12:08 PM
  #33
pld459666
Registered User
 
pld459666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Danbury, CT
Country: United States
Posts: 16,651
vCash: 500
.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MortUWary View Post
Offense is not what this team needs? Getting away from going through one player in particular on our power plays is not what this team needs? Hossa is not a one-man show and does use the players around him. I love Jagr, don't get me wrong. I'm just a little tired of the mercurial play and moodiness that has enveloped this team's personality.

Someone on the GDT yesterday mentioned losing by double digits would've served as a wake-up call. Well, trading your underachieving sulky captain would also do that, as well as changing the dynamic of this team. I'd like to test the chemistry of Gomez and Marian Hossa on a line together. Think that would click? Because right now we have two 7 million dollar centers with no chemistry with our elite winger. That doesn't work and will only hinder the team.
I'd have to say that, No. Offence isn't what this team needs. What it needs is different types of offensive wingers to make better use of the centers we do have.

Straka, Jagr and Shanny, all of them need to move on. None of them have any desire or ability to go to the net with any regularity and that needs to change.

Instead of trying to get Hossa, they should be trying to get a Doan type player. No he's no Hossa, but I'm not looking for any more perimeter players for our top 2 lines. Enough with the pansyarse BS.

As for the assumption that Hossa can work better with Gomer than Jagr does, that is flawed logic. We all assumed that Gomer and Jagr would both be putting up a ton of points and that hasn't happened.

We need more wingers that have the size, speed, grit determination to go to the net and they need to have the talent to be effective to do something when they get there.

Doan is a good example of player I'd love to see in NY. Mueller is another kid with size that I'd like to see on the Rangers (on the wing). Steve Bernier from the Sharks as well.

None are as good as Hossa, but they all bring an element that Hossa doesn't and it's that element that is hurting this team.

pld459666 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2007, 12:10 PM
  #34
MortUWary
Registered Loser
 
MortUWary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 1,192
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolbean04 View Post
I can see SJ offering

Cheechoo

1 of Michalek/Bernier/Setoguchi

1st round pick

For Hossa and that's more than anything that we can offer.
There is plenty of mystery over whether Cheechoo is a product of Joe Thornton. As a GM, I'd have a little interest in him if San Jose was shopping him. Look at the numbers, though. Cheechoo has only had 1 season professionally of averaging over a point per game. In the NHL, he has NEVER had a season with more assists than goals and the Thrashers are a team devoid of a playmaker.

Last season was a down season for Jagr and he still finished well over a point per game. I understand this season he hasn't done much, but no Ranger has and he is still doing better (22 points in 32 games) than Cheechoo (9 points in 28 games.) I don't think that a package headed by Cheechoo is going to be superior to a package headed by Jagr. For the record Michalek isn't going anywhere. They signed him to cap friendly extension in September.

MortUWary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2007, 12:17 PM
  #35
coolbean04
Registered User
 
coolbean04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,735
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MortUWary View Post
There is plenty of mystery over whether Cheechoo is a product of Joe Thornton. As a GM, I'd have a little interest in him if San Jose was shopping him. Look at the numbers, though. Cheechoo has only had 1 season professionally of averaging over a point per game. In the NHL, he has NEVER had a season with more assists than goals and the Thrashers are a team devoid of a playmaker.

Last season was a down season for Jagr and he still finished well over a point per game. I understand this season he hasn't done much, but no Ranger has and he is still doing better (22 points in 32 games) than Cheechoo (9 points in 28 games.) I don't think that a package headed by Cheechoo is going to be superior to a package headed by Jagr. For the record Michalek isn't going anywhere. They signed him to cap friendly extension in September.

Obviously Jagr is better than Cheechoo. You also didn't mention how Jagr has to be treated like a baby and needs to have everything his way. He can just dog it in ATL like he did in WSH because he doesn't like it there. You don't think that's going to enter a GM's mind?

Jagr is also going to be 36 in Feb. while Cheechoo is 27 years younger (almost a decade difference).

Yea there's a lot of question marks in Cheechoo about wondering if his #'s were a fluke. He could also blossom playing with a guy like Kavalchuk and a change of scenary.

Point is they're acquiring a guy that has its value at a low. You think SJ would make that trade when Cheechoo was lighting it up? Nope.

You also forgot to mention the 1st round pick and someone like Bernier is also included in the package.

SJ WANTS NHL players that are YOUNG and will be on their team for MORE THAN 1 year.

Sorry, Jagr for Hossa will NEVER EVER happen so give it a rest already.

coolbean04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2007, 12:18 PM
  #36
Melrose_Jr.
Registered User
 
Melrose_Jr.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Providence, RI
Country: United States
Posts: 10,692
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
But then what?

Look, I would trade Jagr for Hossa in a heartbeat. I really don't see how that deal helps the Thrashers.
I hear ya. It's not what I'd want if I'm Waddell, but if he's thinking short term, I'll sell him a short term solution. PLUS, if Jagr can reach his option triggers, then he's got him for another year.

Melrose_Jr. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2007, 12:20 PM
  #37
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 30,007
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MortUWary View Post
I understand your reservations and this was all meant to spark up some discussion as to whether or not this is something that either team would pursue with the other. There is a segment of Thrashers fans who are rabid and would buy Jagr jerseys and go to a few more games if a deal is made. There is always a spike in merchandise sales when a big name is traded to a new team. Waddell's goal is making the playoffs and generating the extra revenue from the home playoff games.

If that is truly his goal, then there may be some credence to this being a potential fit and bring something of value for an impending UFA who is set to leave town for nothing.
There's no reservation in my mind. Hossa for Jagr? I do it in a heartbeat. I can't see the Thrashers being wild of this deal. At least not straight-up.

SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2007, 12:25 PM
  #38
I Am Chariot
One shift at a time
 
I Am Chariot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 14,526
vCash: 500
I want Jagr and Hossa

Mmmmmm trade Hossa for players to help us win this year.

The Thrashers are far from winning anything this year. Starting with their goaltending.

And Hossa is a UFA to be. What Gm is going to rent him with other key guys going back.


Hossa gets them some "decent" young roster players and excellent prospects, picks. Not Jagr


Wouldnt it be funny if Sather flipped Bourret back to Atl in a deal for Hossa. Obviously he'd just be a piece of the package but hardy har har

__________________
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man
I Am Chariot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2007, 12:25 PM
  #39
MortUWary
Registered Loser
 
MortUWary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 1,192
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I'd have to say that, No. Offence isn't what this team needs. What it needs is different types of offensive wingers to make better use of the centers we do have.

Straka, Jagr and Shanny, all of them need to move on. None of them have any desire or ability to go to the net with any regularity and that needs to change.

Instead of trying to get Hossa, they should be trying to get a Doan type player. No he's no Hossa, but I'm not looking for any more perimeter players for our top 2 lines. Enough with the pansyarse BS.

As for the assumption that Hossa can work better with Gomer than Jagr does, that is flawed logic. We all assumed that Gomer and Jagr would both be putting up a ton of points and that hasn't happened.

We need more wingers that have the size, speed, grit determination to go to the net and they need to have the talent to be effective to do something when they get there.

Doan is a good example of player I'd love to see in NY. Mueller is another kid with size that I'd like to see on the Rangers (on the wing). Steve Bernier from the Sharks as well.

None are as good as Hossa, but they all bring an element that Hossa doesn't and it's that element that is hurting this team.
Please don't ever become the Rangers GM.

#1. I like Shane Doan, but he has an AWFUL contract. 6 million per for the next 4 seasons is an albatross. We already have Gomez and Drury locked up for big money and big years. Not to say that we wouldn't give Hossa the money, but a physical player like Doan is prone to breaking down and does not score enough to justify the bucks.

#2. WONDERING whether Hossa/Gomez would have better chemistry than Jagr/Gomez is flawed logic? I've never seen you play hockey, but I also wonder whether you and Gomez would have better chemistry than Jagr/Gomez. I mean, it couldn't be worse. They are a square peg and a round hole. The team needs to have their two highest paid players click and right now that's not happening with Jagr and Gomez OR Drury. We're stuck with them for longer, so we need to eliminate the square peg. You said it yourself: "Straka, Jagr and Shanny, all of them need to move on."

#3. Doan drives to the net and is gritty. Agreed. So was Jed Ortmeyer, but he didn't have the hands. So is Ryan Callahan, but he isn't big. Neither is Petr Prucha. The effort has been there from some of the guys, but right now this team is struggling to score. The worst offense in the NHL, 18th best last season and yet you don't think our offense is the problem???

#4. Bernier and Mueller aren't available. Hossa is. Waddell wants the playoff revenue and needs help this year. Jagr sounds like a potential fit. Hossa is an ideal replacement for our first line RW spot. Averaged over a point per game in each of the last 4 seasons and is doing that this year. Doan's season high is 68 (IRONIC, eh?) Doan is a great player, please don't get me wrong. He is not a first-line guy. Phenomenal second line fit, but Hossa is the type of talent this team can use right now.


Last edited by MortUWary: 12-17-2007 at 12:42 PM.
MortUWary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2007, 12:25 PM
  #40
BenedictGomez
#FireDeboer
 
BenedictGomez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: PRNJ
Country: United States
Posts: 26,871
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by God Is Avery View Post
I've been recommending Hossa for Jagr straight up for a while now.
As if the Thrash would want Jagr at approximately 36 years old and showing signs of slowing up, instead of Hossa who will is also a major NHL offensive threat and yet only turns 29 soon? That makes no sense. You'd have to give up a package for Hossa with probably some young talent included. Maybe include Prucha in there since it seems some are giving up on him?

BenedictGomez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2007, 12:26 PM
  #41
I Am Chariot
One shift at a time
 
I Am Chariot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 14,526
vCash: 500
Would Ottawa send one of Emery/ Gerber, Top 4 D man + top forward prospect back to ATL for Hossa?

that would be rich

I Am Chariot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2007, 12:28 PM
  #42
I Am Chariot
One shift at a time
 
I Am Chariot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 14,526
vCash: 500
I think Jagr would defect to Europe before reporting to Atl

I Am Chariot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2007, 12:32 PM
  #43
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 30,007
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenedictGomez View Post
As if the Thrash would want Jagr at approximately 36 years old and showing signs of slowing up, instead of Hossa who will is also a major NHL offensive threat and yet only turns 29 soon? That makes no sense. You'd have to give up a package for Hossa with probably some young talent included. Maybe include Prucha in there since it seems some are giving up on him?
Prucha? Fine. Rather deal Prucha than Dawes.

SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2007, 12:36 PM
  #44
BenedictGomez
#FireDeboer
 
BenedictGomez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: PRNJ
Country: United States
Posts: 26,871
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Prucha? Fine. Rather deal Prucha than Dawes.
I think Prucha has a lot of talent and is stifled by the way the team is being forced to play. Maybe Jagr isnt really showing signs of age and maybe he is being stifled by that too. I dont know much about that Dawes character, other than the fact he pretty much singlehandedly beat the Devils in a game earlier in the season........and was immediately demoted to the AHL for his effort. Couldnt really figure that one out.

BenedictGomez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2007, 01:00 PM
  #45
mergnemi*
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bloomfield, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 397
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to mergnemi*
no thanks

we don't need another hossa who disappears in games

mergnemi* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2007, 01:03 PM
  #46
Evil Sather
YOU KILL THE JOE
 
Evil Sather's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: YOU MAKE SOME MO
Posts: 1,899
vCash: 500
Why would the Thrashers trade Hossa for Jagr when both are pending UFAs but Hossa is playing better than Jagr and probably IS better than Jagr at this point. Hmm?

Atlanta can and will get a mint of young'ns for him. To trade him for a WORSE pending UFA is lunacy.

Plus 1/2 of Jagr's contract will NOT be paid by Washington if he is traded. Can they afford the 8.4M cap hit?

C'mon guys. An offer for Hossa starts with Cherepanov at the least, not AHL scraps like Baranka and AAAA players like Dawes, Moore, or Prucha.

Evil Sather is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2007, 01:08 PM
  #47
ruckus*
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 3,554
vCash: 500
Don't see this trade ever happening. We'd have to give up some quality young players along with Jagr and I'm not really willing to do that. Nor do I think the other players we'd be giving up, like a Prucha, would really thrill Waddell into thinking that Jagr AND Prucha would be better than Hossa for his teams playoff chances this year. I just don't see it. This is why I get ticked about all these trade Jagr posts and things. I just don't see any way to improve this team by trading him. No one is going to give us a younger superstar for him straight up. We'd have to sacrifice some other younger pieces of our organization as well. And I don't really want to do that. Along with the fact that this doesn't equal a guaranteed solution. I just think the risk far outweighs the reward.

ruckus* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2007, 01:09 PM
  #48
NosLliWhsoj*
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 85
vCash: 500
get hossa so he can learn the trap and forget about scoring 20 goals a season? great idea!

The players are NOT the problem, we have plenty of future, current, and past "world class" players, adding another wont change a thing.

NosLliWhsoj* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2007, 01:24 PM
  #49
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 30,007
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by NosLliWhsoj View Post
get hossa so he can learn the trap and forget about scoring 20 goals a season? great idea!

The players are NOT the problem, we have plenty of future, current, and past "world class" players, adding another wont change a thing.
The system is not different from the one where Jagr scored 30, Shanny scored 29, Straka scored 29 and Prucha scored 22.

Somehow the defensemen are finding ways to score.

SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2007, 01:31 PM
  #50
mergnemi*
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bloomfield, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 397
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to mergnemi*
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Somehow the defensemen are finding ways to score.
that is mainly because gomez finds them cutting in from the point on the power play. tyutin and girardi have good instincts of when to sneak down from the point and accept a pass. but other than that they need to show a consistent effort to shoot on the power play so the pk guys honor the shot to open up other opportunities.

mergnemi* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:04 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.