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Rumor/Proposal: Marian Hossa Available

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Old
12-18-2007, 09:36 AM
  #101
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You guys are Underrating Hossa bigtime here. Why would Atlanta every trade Hossa straight up for Jagr. Hossa is much younger and on an upswing and Jagr is clearly on a downswing. They are going to want somebody that they can have for years for Hossa and somebody that they can get pretty cheap. THey would have to pay Jagr 8 million if he is traded, he is nowhere near worth that anymore. And the reason they are getting rid of Hossa is because he will be making 8 million.

*NEWS FLASH**** HOSSA HAS MORE POINTS THAN JAGR 4 OUT OF THE LAST 5 SEASONS*********** Jagr for Hossa is just silly and is totally one sided.

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12-18-2007, 09:36 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I get that quote. But doesn't Hossa give them a better chance at success this season than Jagr?
Perhaps, but he can't generate more money for Atlanta. The addition of one of the 20 greatest players the game has ever seen will generate some extra dough. A few casual fans will show up to the games. Rabid fans will buy more merchandise (new Jagr jerseys & t-shirts, just like our fans have with Drury and Gomez. I also remember seeing Pavel Bure Rangers jerseys right after the trade was made with Florida years ago.) If they get into the playoffs, which is the ultimate goal, they will generate more money.

They're both great players, but if Waddell comes to the conclusion that he's going to lose Hossa and he wants to make a run at the playoffs and get some cash at the fan's expense, it is a possibility that extends not just on the ice, but off of it.

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12-18-2007, 09:45 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by MortUWary View Post
Perhaps, but he can't generate more money for Atlanta. The addition of one of the 20 greatest players the game has ever seen will generate some extra dough. A few casual fans will show up to the games. Rabid fans will buy more merchandise (new Jagr jerseys & t-shirts, just like our fans have with Drury and Gomez. I also remember seeing Pavel Bure Rangers jerseys right after the trade was made with Florida years ago.) If they get into the playoffs, which is the ultimate goal, they will generate more money.

They're both great players, but if Waddell comes to the conclusion that he's going to lose Hossa and he wants to make a run at the playoffs and get some cash at the fan's expense, it is a possibility that extends not just on the ice, but off of it.
Look at what Guerin, Smyth and Tkachuk got their teams at the deadline last year. 3 first rounders and prospects for all of them. Hossa is 10x better than all of them. Why would they trade him for just Jagr.

Do you not realize that Hossa is a superstar also and a better player(offensively and defensively) than Jagr? He is one of the best 2 way players in the game and they are gonna give him up for a one sided player(yea I know, JAgr backchecks now) who will give them less production?

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12-18-2007, 09:45 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by MortUWary View Post
Perhaps, but he can't generate more money for Atlanta. The addition of one of the 20 greatest players the game has ever seen will generate some extra dough. A few casual fans will show up to the games. Rabid fans will buy more merchandise (new Jagr jerseys & t-shirts, just like our fans have with Drury and Gomez. I also remember seeing Pavel Bure Rangers jerseys right after the trade was made with Florida years ago.) If they get into the playoffs, which is the ultimate goal, they will generate more money.

They're both great players, but if Waddell comes to the conclusion that he's going to lose Hossa and he wants to make a run at the playoffs and get some cash at the fan's expense, it is a possibility that extends not just on the ice, but off of it.
I really question whether Jagr does much for the attendance there. They already have two of the most exicting stars in the league in Hossa and Kovalchuk. And I think that they would get more of a boost in revenue from winning rather than bringing in a guy who might very well be over-the-hill.

Look, I make a Jagr for Hossa deal in a second. I just don't see ATL doing the same.

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12-18-2007, 09:52 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by MortUWary View Post
Jeez... So, clearly you decide to pick on the easiest comment to try and needle me into an argument. First and foremost, those were not my words. Don't try to use your peabrain to come up with your own conclusions on what I said. I'll elaborate on my point for you...

Jaromir Jagr is so good that he can be having an awful season, yet still post 22 points in 30 games. He had 14 more points than games played last season and it was considered a down year. The guy can flat out play, even at 35. He's struggled to find chemistry this season with the new additions at center and he's had a 22 year old (Dubinsky) who averaged a little over a half a point per game in the AHL last season as his center and Marcel Hossa as his left wing for 15 games.

If he's so good, then why do I want to get rid of him? I don't necessarily. I just think the team chemistry is off with the new centers and we need to get away from having the power play go through him for 90 seconds at a clip. If Hossa is being moved and Atlanta wants help for now, there is potential for a fit.

I forgot how assinine people are on message boards, so from now on I'll write long winded answers to avoid having clowns like this try to pick apart a benign comment and form their own inaccurate conclusions.
Great players don't need chemistry, they create it. They make those around them better. Jagr used to be one of those players. Ovechkin has played with a host of garbage and excelled. Gretzky used to have trash placed on his lines and this trash would then turn around and score 50 goals. Jagr is either hurt of approaching the finish line.

Even if Jagr has something left he doesn't get you Marian Hossa. Almost everyone in this thread agrees with that.

As for the arguing part, you criticized me for what I wrote (not directed at you) before I replied to you. A bunch of other people in this thread have already explained that your suggestion doesn't make any sense for Atlanta but I'm not saying that you don't have the right to defend your idea.

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12-18-2007, 10:08 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Great players don't need chemistry, they create it. They make those around them better. Jagr used to be one of those players. Ovechkin has played with a host of garbage and excelled. Gretzky used to have trash placed on his lines and this trash would then turn around and score 50 goals. Jagr is either hurt of approaching the finish line.

Even if Jagr has something left he doesn't get you Marian Hossa. Almost everyone in this thread agrees with that.

As for the arguing part, you criticized me for what I wrote (not directed at you) before I replied to you. A bunch of other people in this thread have already explained that your suggestion doesn't make any sense for Atlanta but I'm not saying that you don't have the right to defend your idea.
Who exactly has Ovechkin made better? That's been the one knock on him during his career, so far. On a Washington broadcast last Friday night against the Sabres, the commentators mentioned how Bruce Boudreau would like for Ovechkin to start utilizing his teammates more.

Secondly, Jagr is not Gretzky and for you to make that comparison is extremely weak. I agree that superstars should be able to produce no matter what, but as poorly as the numbers indicate for #68 this season, the team as a whole is not scoring. 2.14 goals per game is putrid. Is he a part of the problem? Absolutely, but in comparison with what everyone else is producing on the team, he's doing better than most.

Lastly, you're right about getting defensive. My issue with message boards is that when you try to spark up conversation, you immediately get flamed by people. January 23, 2004 is my second favorite day in Rangers history. That was the day they traded for Jagr. I was a HUGE Jagr mark and was devastated when he was dealt to Washington instead of us the two summers prior to that. I had 4 authentic Pens jerseys of his, despite being a Rangers fan first and foremost. I don't want to trade him, but with Hossa being reportedly available for some kind of package that would help Atlanta right now, I decided to begin the thread.

Since doing so, I've been trying to come up with any viable ideas to back this thought up, while not even agreeing with many of my own points. Again, this goes back to sparking up debate to liven up the board. Was I too defensive? Absolutely and for that I apologize. However, I can't help but get that way when it many posters try to pick on the smallest details and mistakes in posts.

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12-18-2007, 10:14 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by MortUWary View Post
Who exactly has Ovechkin made better? That's been the one knock on him during his career, so far. On a Washington broadcast last Friday night against the Sabres, the commentators mentioned how Bruce Boudreau would like for Ovechkin to start utilizing his teammates more.

Secondly, Jagr is not Gretzky and for you to make that comparison is extremely weak. I agree that superstars should be able to produce no matter what, but as poorly as the numbers indicate for #68 this season, the team as a whole is not scoring. 2.14 goals per game is putrid. Is he a part of the problem? Absolutely, but in comparison with what everyone else is producing on the team, he's doing better than most.

Lastly, you're right about getting defensive. My issue with message boards is that when you try to spark up conversation, you immediately get flamed by people. January 23, 2004 is my second favorite day in Rangers history. That was the day they traded for Jagr. I was a HUGE Jagr mark and was devastated when he was dealt to Washington instead of us the two summers prior to that. I had 4 authentic Pens jerseys of his, despite being a Rangers fan first and foremost. I don't want to trade him, but with Hossa being reportedly available for some kind of package that would help Atlanta right now, I decided to begin the thread.

Since doing so, I've been trying to come up with any viable ideas to back this thought up, while not even agreeing with many of my own points. Again, this goes back to sparking up debate to liven up the board. Was I too defensive? Absolutely and for that I apologize. However, I can't help but get that way when it many posters try to pick on the smallest details and mistakes in posts.
I don't want to belabor this and I'm glad you wrote what you did but certainly one example of Ovechkin making a player better was Chris Clark last year. Before playing with Ovechkin he was a huge zero. With Ovechkin he had a pretty fair season.

I understand that you're a Jagr fan and I hope he returns to what he once was (an all time great). I'm just not as hopeful as you about it.

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Old
12-18-2007, 10:28 AM
  #108
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[QUOTE=MortUWary;11675826]Who exactly has Ovechkin made better? That's been the one knock on him during his career, so far. On a Washington broadcast last Friday night against the Sabres, the commentators mentioned how Bruce Boudreau would like for Ovechkin to start utilizing his teammates more.[QUOTE]

Zubrus' numbers jumped 20-25pts a year playing with Ovechkin and he has his big new contract to thank AO for. Chris Clark is a nobody who looks halfway decent playing with him also.

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12-18-2007, 10:29 AM
  #109
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Wait... You mean to tell me that you DON'T think that Chris Clark was the second coming of Cam Neely?!? LOL.

Point taken. Thanks for being civil.

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12-18-2007, 10:39 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by MortUWary View Post
Perhaps, but he can't generate more money for Atlanta. The addition of one of the 20 greatest players the game has ever seen will generate some extra dough.
You know what really brings in the cash? Trading a NHL elite player for an aging and former NHL elite player and thus ruining your young teams forward chances at success.

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12-18-2007, 10:44 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by OpieAnthony View Post
Look at what Guerin, Smyth and Tkachuk got their teams at the deadline last year. 3 first rounders and prospects for all of them. Hossa is 10x better than all of them. Why would they trade him for just Jagr.
No one. The production issue aside, Atlanta's motives have been stated: they want to get something for Hossa before he walks. They can't come to terms with him, so they're looking to deal him.

That being the case, it seems unreasonable to think they'd deal for Jagr, a player in exactly the same situation with the added disincentive of saying he has no desire to move again in his career.

In any case, with the Thrashers looking for help this year, you'd need to effectively tear apart this Ranger club to satisfy them. The Blueshirts do not have a major young star other than Lundqvist, which means they'd be forced to deal multiple assets. If I was Waddell, my demands would begin with Staal, and ther would be no negotiating around that demand. He's the only top young player on this club who can contribute meaningfully right now.

With the emergence of Richards, I could see the Flyers building an excellent package of Gagne, a secondary player who will fill a lesser Thrasher need, and a mid-range pick or prospect.

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12-18-2007, 10:48 AM
  #112
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Wow, Cheechoo is REALLY good for a 9 year old. Big too. Just imagine how good/big he'll be when he's like 13.
DAMNIT!!!!! I was thinking that since he wrote that, I was just going through the entire thread to see if anyone made fun of that before I quoted it... You beat me to it.

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12-18-2007, 10:57 AM
  #113
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You know what really brings in the cash? Trading a NHL elite player for an aging and former NHL elite player and thus ruining your young teams forward chances at success.
I know that doesn't make sense considering that 3 people bought a Doug Gilmour & Alexander Mogilny jersey when they came to the Devils years ago.

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12-18-2007, 12:26 PM
  #114
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I know that doesn't make sense considering that 3 people bought a Doug Gilmour & Alexander Mogilny jersey when they came to the Devils years ago.
A) totally different situations. So much so that the comparison makes no sense
B) Mogilny was explosive and helped the Devils to a Stanley Cup Championship

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12-18-2007, 12:59 PM
  #115
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A) totally different situations. So much so that the comparison makes no sense
B) Mogilny was explosive and helped the Devils to a Stanley Cup Championship
...and the sarcasm smiley face once again fails to tip off the defensive poster

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12-18-2007, 01:07 PM
  #116
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Wait... You mean to tell me that you DON'T think that Chris Clark was the second coming of Cam Neely?!? LOL.

Point taken. Thanks for being civil.
Not to beat a dead horse here. but AO also made Zubrus a 60 point scorer.

Prior to 05-06 season Zubrus career high was 43 points.

05-06 (with AO) Zubru jumps to 57 points in 71 games and then 52 points the next season in 60 games. Had Zubrus not been traded he was on pace for 70 points that season.

Currently, Dainius is on pace for 44 points (back to his pre AO days)

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12-18-2007, 01:12 PM
  #117
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Not to beat a dead horse here. but AO also made Zubrus a 60 point scorer.

Currently, Dainius is on pace for 44 points (back to his pre AO days)
Sadly, it looks like you're right about that. Still, he never quits even if the Devils are losing 5-0, and is a good leader, so I dont think it's like he's a disaster at $3.4M for the next few years.

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12-18-2007, 01:14 PM
  #118
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Sadly, it looks like you're right about that. Still, he never quits even if the Devils are losing 5-0, and is a good leader, so I dont think it's like he's a disaster at $3.4M for the next few years.
I don't think anybody said he is a disaster. Just saying that his numbers were inflated because of AO.

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12-18-2007, 01:25 PM
  #119
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I would definitely support a Hossa trade. Even if it is just a rental.

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