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The Official 2008 World Junior Championships Thread

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Old
01-05-2008, 04:02 PM
  #376
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David Skokan was named the top forward on the Slovakian team. He was the only Ranger prospect to factor in the tournament awards. His 8 points were good for 2nd on team Slovakia, and tied for 5th in the tournament.

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01-05-2008, 04:33 PM
  #377
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Also, remember that Cherepanov was not 100% healthy in the tournament.

He missed the first game and still finished the tournament with 6 points in 6 games.

He is showing the ability to not only score big goals, but to also set up big goals.

As far as his talent goes he is developing.

His body will catch up. He is a kid. And once they get him over to the US, he will be with the right coaching staff and the right people to get him more physically fit.

I wouldn't worry about it at this point. Remember, when Ovechkin(my favorite player) came over to the states he was already 20 years old. Which is a full 2 years of maturity and development more.

Cherepanov will be over here next year. At still only 19 years old.

This is a reason i feel Jagr will be here next year. I havea feeling the Rangers will definitely want Jagr to be a mentor to Cherepanov.

Jagr has a rigorous work ethic. Despite what people some fans feel. Jagr is a VERY hard worker. Before every game he runs up and down all the stairs in each arena he plays in. His legs are not the most ridiculously strong legs to ever be possessed by a hockey player by accident. And with Jagr as captain he would be a great guy for Cherepanov to learn from.


I may have come off harsh in my earlier post, but i didn't mean it that way. I respect your opinions like everyone else. But i think it is way too early to question Cherepanov's work ethic. The RSL doesn't exactly care for developing their youth in the way North America does. But they DO churn out HIGHLY skilled players, the Russians do. And they are my favorite players. I absolutely love the highly skilled and creative offensive European players.
First of all, no problem with your first post, its serious stuff we are discussing here, we must get it right!

You make a really good point about Jagr, and you could defenitly throw Marty Straka into that group. I don't think anyone is thinking for themselfs that they don't care about wheter they will become a good player or not, and opts to take a soft road and not work hard enough. I think players like Brendl for example fools themselfs. If Chere comes over and sees how hard a extremely talented player like Straka for example works, its much harder to fool themselfs that they still can become stars without working hard enough. Its the same when they come in and see talented kids like Dawes, Korpikoski and co work extremely hard.

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01-06-2008, 05:38 AM
  #378
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I stopped watching the Gold medal game after the 2nd period.Couldn't stand Pierre McGuire going on and on about the Canadian team.His commentary is geared towards a Canadian audience.

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01-06-2008, 05:41 AM
  #379
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This is a reason i feel Jagr will be here next year. I havea feeling the Rangers will definitely want Jagr to be a mentor to Cherepanov.

.
How much are the Rangers going to pay Jagr to mentor Cherepanov who might spend some time in the AHL?

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01-06-2008, 05:43 AM
  #380
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I stopped watching the Gold medal game after the 2nd period.Couldn't stand Pierre McGuire going on and on about the Canadian team.His commentary is geared towards a Canadian audience.
To be fair, it was a canadian broadcast being simulcast to the US, what do you expect? neutral versus coverage where they have to send their entire crew?

Just like before 'center ice' nobody had to endure the opposing teams homer announcers.. you have to now if you want to watch out of market, or overseas games/tournaments.

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01-06-2008, 05:35 PM
  #381
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Ola i remeber watching last year "next big swedish thing" Backstrom on WC and think myself "God, this dude is long-time project - ok skater, slow, can't shoot. 2-3 yaers on second roles like Sedin's". Bump. .

Yeah, i always say in past - Cherepanov weak as hell, and he need to work a lot, but coaching stuff - it's 50% of prospect future. I mean it's not like Backstrom, Kane or Gagner set the world on fire in camps but they on team plans. This the reason why Kane came from OHL team right in Chicago 1 pp unit. He is the huge part of Chicago future and team willing to kikstart him. Same with Dubinsky and Dawes, Dawes maybe Gretzky of AHL but he is not in team plans.

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01-06-2008, 09:03 PM
  #382
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Just have to saqy this... The Swedes deserved this gold medal in that one-game championship-match. Two great teams, the swedes should have won, they were the better team. Just had to say that after reading northamerican (Canadian in particoular) and nhl.com reviews.

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01-07-2008, 05:28 AM
  #383
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Ola i remeber watching last year "next big swedish thing" Backstrom on WC and think myself "God, this dude is long-time project - ok skater, slow, can't shoot. 2-3 yaers on second roles like Sedin's". Bump. .

Yeah, i always say in past - Cherepanov weak as hell, and he need to work a lot, but coaching stuff - it's 50% of prospect future. I mean it's not like Backstrom, Kane or Gagner set the world on fire in camps but they on team plans. This the reason why Kane came from OHL team right in Chicago 1 pp unit. He is the huge part of Chicago future and team willing to kikstart him. Same with Dubinsky and Dawes, Dawes maybe Gretzky of AHL but he is not in team plans.
Yeah, Bäckström in perticular is defenitly borderline slow/weak, but they belived in him and he is really starting to pick it up.

Don't get me wrong on Cherepanov, I really like the kid. He is a really special talent, and I actually think I am higher on the kid then many others. It defenitly seemed like that after the Summit's...

But I can't forget 2001 either. That year guys like Dany Heatly, Jason Spezza, Ilya Kovalchuk and co played in the WJC. But neither lead the tournament in scoring. Neither lead their team to gold.

The one who lead the tournament in scoring and lead his team, beeing the captain, to gold was our 4th overall pick in 1999 -- Pavel Brendl. Brendl had some really bad years 02'-05', getting kicked off 3 second division team in Sweden, Finland and the Czech Rep. He have just now started to take advantage of his abilitys becomming a high scoring player in the SEL. But he is also a healty scratch in the SEL every now because of his workethic, and when he have been given a chance on the Czech national team he haven't even been close to making a good impression.

So my point is, Alexi Cherepanov must work hard. No matter how talented the kid is, he have some substansial flaws that he must correct. Especially becomming more explosive and stronger, and he must become more proffesional on the ice. There is just no gaurantees. If Cherepanov had come into this WJC and looked like he had matured a hockey year I would have hyped him like no tomorrow, and I would have been really comfortable dooing so. Now, that didn't happend at all. Even after taking everything into consideration.

Like I said above, it doesn't have to mean a thing, he is still extremely young and all, but I am concerned about him. I don't think he is a "lock" yet.

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01-07-2008, 05:36 AM
  #384
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Also, some people talk about how its only been a year since he was drafted, and how its unreasonable to expect Chere to develop much in that time.

But it really isn't. Kids develop tremendously at that age. Take Andrew Ladd for example. Had the draft been held 10 month earlier, according to everyone, Andrew Ladd wouldn't even have been drafted. He then really skyrocketed his draft year, and moved from like 400th overall, to 2nd overall.

A hockeyplayer at the age of 16-21, in some cases even up to 23-24, can develop tremendously.

Thats why its so important to look for players who keep developing every year. Beeing great when you are 18 means in every case -- except 4-5 players every decade, the Crosbys, AO's, Kovalchuks and co -- don't gaurantee a thing.

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01-08-2008, 05:19 PM
  #385
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Yeah, Bäckström in perticular is defenitly borderline slow/weak, but they belived in him and he is really starting to pick it up.

Don't get me wrong on Cherepanov, I really like the kid. He is a really special talent, and I actually think I am higher on the kid then many others. It defenitly seemed like that after the Summit's...

But I can't forget 2001 either. That year guys like Dany Heatly, Jason Spezza, Ilya Kovalchuk and co played in the WJC. But neither lead the tournament in scoring. Neither lead their team to gold.

The one who lead the tournament in scoring and lead his team, beeing the captain, to gold was our 4th overall pick in 1999 -- Pavel Brendl. Brendl had some really bad years 02'-05', getting kicked off 3 second division team in Sweden, Finland and the Czech Rep. He have just now started to take advantage of his abilitys becomming a high scoring player in the SEL. But he is also a healty scratch in the SEL every now because of his workethic, and when he have been given a chance on the Czech national team he haven't even been close to making a good impression.

So my point is, Alexi Cherepanov must work hard. No matter how talented the kid is, he have some substansial flaws that he must correct. Especially becomming more explosive and stronger, and he must become more proffesional on the ice. There is just no gaurantees. If Cherepanov had come into this WJC and looked like he had matured a hockey year I would have hyped him like no tomorrow, and I would have been really comfortable dooing so. Now, that didn't happend at all. Even after taking everything into consideration.

Like I said above, it doesn't have to mean a thing, he is still extremely young and all, but I am concerned about him. I don't think he is a "lock" yet.
Ola i think you have taken my words
amiss. Never i said Cherepanov lock, (and sure i don't think he is as talented as AO or Crosby, Croby phenomenal tireless legs it's talent too. Malkin maybe more talented than both but he can't deliver every shift every minute). Body keep Cherepanov on lower level than he capable to play, but if he start gaining weight and muscles expressly it would be end of him. 80% of his game it's reactions on the puck, quick hands and quick decision with the puck. I better give him another year and wait until he mature. Remember Svitov? Hell of prospect until he start bulked up like idiot purposely to NHL.

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01-08-2008, 06:51 PM
  #386
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but if he start gaining weight and muscles expressly it would be end of him. 80% of his game it's reactions on the puck, quick hands and quick decision with the puck. I better give him another year and wait until he mature. Remember Svitov? Hell of prospect until he start bulked up like idiot purposely to NHL.
I think Cherepanov can easily get stronger without getting slower. And he can definitely work on his conditioning without that hurting his game. Getting stronger will help a player get faster, to a certain point. After that point, if they keep bulking up, then yes they'll start slowing down.

Really he probably just needs to mature and get better at conditioning

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01-10-2008, 06:40 AM
  #387
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I think Cherepanov can easily get stronger without getting slower. And he can definitely work on his conditioning without that hurting his game. Getting stronger will help a player get faster, to a certain point. After that point, if they keep bulking up, then yes they'll start slowing down.

Really he probably just needs to mature and get better at conditioning
You need to get stronger in the right areas, and especially keep the balance between diffrent musclegroups.

If you got extremely stong legs, you need to have a extremely strong stomach; otherwise the legs are just heavy to lift up... Achiving that balance is really tough. If you work out mostly in a gym, the safest way is to take it slowly when you add weight. If you add like 5 lbs per year, the body gets the time to make up the lost ground for the balance/support muscles that are so hard to optimize in a gym. Russians generally are really good in that area though. I think they where the frontrunners, they did what many experts have started to talk about only 10 years ago, like 25 years ago. 15 years ahead of time atleast, if not more. Like complimenting heavy squats in a gym, with running up for a hill pulling weights behind you. And one legged squats et c. Your thighs (sp? the big leg muscle) must be extremly strong when you skate, no doubt about it. Its defenitly easiest to get that strength in a gym. But there is so many muscles around the thighs, and the thigh muscle itself can be built in so many ways. When you skate you need to be extremely well rounded in all thoose areas. If you do a one legged squat for example, the thigh muscle, and other muscles around it, constantly have to work sideways too to keep the body balance. If you run up for a hill with a weight attached to your upper body, the stomach is synched with the leggs.

But if you build right, there are no boundarys. Like Pavel Bure was extremely strong. He sat pretty much unbreakable records in both squats and benchpress for Vancouver (Their off ice coach Peter Twist have wrote a book where he talks about it). Like 400+ lbs in benchpress; which is amazing for someone his size. At the same time his father was the national team coach for the Soviet simming squad, where all was pumped with steroids. The KLM guys talked in a documentary about how they also where pumped with steroids when on the Soviet national team. So its not all that amazing that Bure could become so strong...

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01-10-2008, 08:23 AM
  #388
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You need to get stronger in the right areas, and especially keep the balance between diffrent musclegroups.

If you got extremely stong legs, you need to have a extremely strong stomach; otherwise the legs are just heavy to lift up... Achiving that balance is really tough. If you work out mostly in a gym, the safest way is to take it slowly when you add weight. If you add like 5 lbs per year, the body gets the time to make up the lost ground for the balance/support muscles that are so hard to optimize in a gym. Russians generally are really good in that area though. I think they where the frontrunners, they did what many experts have started to talk about only 10 years ago, like 25 years ago. 15 years ahead of time atleast, if not more. Like complimenting heavy squats in a gym, with running up for a hill pulling weights behind you. And one legged squats et c. Your thighs (sp? the big leg muscle) must be extremly strong when you skate, no doubt about it. Its defenitly easiest to get that strength in a gym. But there is so many muscles around the thighs, and the thigh muscle itself can be built in so many ways. When you skate you need to be extremely well rounded in all thoose areas. If you do a one legged squat for example, the thigh muscle, and other muscles around it, constantly have to work sideways too to keep the body balance. If you run up for a hill with a weight attached to your upper body, the stomach is synched with the leggs.

But if you build right, there are no boundarys. Like Pavel Bure was extremely strong. He sat pretty much unbreakable records in both squats and benchpress for Vancouver (Their off ice coach Peter Twist have wrote a book where he talks about it). Like 400+ lbs in benchpress; which is amazing for someone his size. At the same time his father was the national team coach for the Soviet simming squad, where all was pumped with steroids. The KLM guys talked in a documentary about how they also where pumped with steroids when on the Soviet national team. So its not all that amazing that Bure could become so strong...
1. Ola you absolutely right, hockey as science it's russian invention. Too bad we lost it in 90's.

2. But Kovalchuk and Ovechkin not exactly russian players in terms of style. Aside from Kamensky you can't find equivalent in soviets teams. You know why many people think about Mikhailov when they see Cherepanov? This is what Tarasov called "nimbleness", all soviet
legends was nimble. Look on Dasyuk, - last truly soviet player - he is not the fastest in a crow line but he incredible fast at changing directions. I don't think Cherepanov can be power forward (by power forward i mean player who can constantly overpower, overspeed opponents on ice). I think he need work on his body because it doesn't matter how good hands you have you can't outdeke good def without speed. He need to work on his balance, and while his shot technically very good it will never works against NHL goalie without extra power. All these thing's must came with ripeness, but think if he bulk 10 ibs this summer he lost more than gain.

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01-10-2008, 09:30 AM
  #389
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
You need to get stronger in the right areas, and especially keep the balance between diffrent musclegroups.

If you got extremely stong legs, you need to have a extremely strong stomach; otherwise the legs are just heavy to lift up... Achiving that balance is really tough. If you work out mostly in a gym, the safest way is to take it slowly when you add weight. If you add like 5 lbs per year, the body gets the time to make up the lost ground for the balance/support muscles that are so hard to optimize in a gym. Russians generally are really good in that area though. I think they where the frontrunners, they did what many experts have started to talk about only 10 years ago, like 25 years ago. 15 years ahead of time atleast, if not more. Like complimenting heavy squats in a gym, with running up for a hill pulling weights behind you. And one legged squats et c. Your thighs (sp? the big leg muscle) must be extremly strong when you skate, no doubt about it. Its defenitly easiest to get that strength in a gym. But there is so many muscles around the thighs, and the thigh muscle itself can be built in so many ways. When you skate you need to be extremely well rounded in all thoose areas. If you do a one legged squat for example, the thigh muscle, and other muscles around it, constantly have to work sideways too to keep the body balance. If you run up for a hill with a weight attached to your upper body, the stomach is synched with the leggs.
Just my experience but leg training for hockey with a plyometrics/anaerobic concentration, multiple 25+ minute runs, and weight training with light-moderate weight/moderate-high reps with minimal rest is the best way to train for legs.

I've used a lot of different ways, and looking to add the most mass possible by weight training hard, with heavy weight, or a bodybuilder's mindset is not good. For one, your legs become hard to move and are laborious. When you look to have pop in your stride, its anything but. Secondly, if you train for more reps and less rest time its basically another way to train your body, and legs specifically, to deal with lactic acid buildup. The more you can convince your body to deal with that burn in your legs, the more its gonna show on ice. Once I started to realize that strength training with 3 rep ranges or so wasn't helping me with this, my shift to shift skating longevity and TOI endurance improved greatly.

It's funny, the transition from being a meathead to actually training for a goal in training for hockey. Trying to look like Rod Brind'Amour while skating like Crosby/Ovechkin is pretty damn hard. I rarely use any of my old static weight training methods. Now every exercise has to challenge my balance in some way - whether on one leg, balancing on dynadiscs, using a stability ball.

Core is big in hockey. Now core includes adductors and abductors I believe, so it looks to be even more the rage in hockey training.

So pretty much all this means, is I hope Cherepanov's got a good trainer.

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01-10-2008, 10:16 AM
  #390
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I think Cherepanov can easily get stronger without getting slower. And he can definitely work on his conditioning without that hurting his game. Getting stronger will help a player get faster, to a certain point. After that point, if they keep bulking up, then yes they'll start slowing down.

Really he probably just needs to mature and get better at conditioning
I think Cherepanov's potential is astoundingly high. Based on his interviews and the games I've watched him play, he is already pretty darn mature and very intelligent.

He doesn't have the skill of an Ovechkin or Kovalchuk, but I think his vision for the ice can make up for that.

It's kind of sad that he's already being compared to Kovalev for his work ethic. I don't think he's that kind of person at all. Just because he doesn't scramble around the ice every game doesn't mean he's lazy. Efficient is more like it.

Anyway, I kind of expect a lot from him now that I've followed him for a while. It would be a shame if he didn't live up to his potential. I really hope the New York media doesn't get the best of him

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01-10-2008, 11:25 AM
  #391
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Based on his interviews and the games I've watched him play, he is already pretty darn mature and very intelligent.
See, I don't get the "mature and intelligent" vibe off him at all, and that's one of my concerns about him coming over to North America next season. The first interview I ever read with Anisimov was from when he was 17, and he sounded mature beyond his years. He talked about taking university courses and reading philosophy. He's always struck me as a very serious person and hockey player. Cherepanov, on the other hand, still comes across to me as happy-go-lucky kid who's having fun playing hockey. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, and it may serve him better in the long run. But that, coupled with what appears to be physical immaturity, makes me worried about bringing him over here next year. I don't think the physical nature of the AHL will be good for him, and, right now anyway, I don't see him stepping straight into the NHL. Not because of lack of skill, but because I just don't think he's physically ready to do so. As much as I'd like to see him playing over here as soon as possible, I'm not sure it wouldn't be a better idea for him to spend another year at home.

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It's kind of sad that he's already being compared to Kovalev for his work ethic. I don't think he's that kind of person at all. Just because he doesn't scramble around the ice every game doesn't mean he's lazy. Efficient is more like it.
He's Russian, therefore he's lazy. Over here, if it doesn't look like you're running around, legs pumping like a steam engine every second of every shift, you're classified as lazy. But as you said, its all about efficiency. It comes from years and years of training to conserve energy and choose your opportunities on the larger ice surface. Sadly, not many Russians escape the "lazy" label. Some Hartford fans have even used it on Anisimov, and to my knowledge, no one questioned his work ethic before he was drafted.

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Anyway, I kind of expect a lot from him now that I've followed him for a while. It would be a shame if he didn't live up to his potential. I really hope the New York media doesn't get the best of him
I'm more worried about the fans than the media, though I suppose they feed off one another. He has incredible potential, but seems a ways off yet. That's part of why I'm concerned about him coming over next year. With all these great expectations and the limited patience of Rangers fans (see: behavior of fans in the Garden since about the 2nd week of the season because the Rangers are not Presidents Trophy front runners) I worry that he'll be classed "another Ranger draft failure" (16 other GMs were right!) if he's not in NY lighting up the scoreboard by December.

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01-10-2008, 06:00 PM
  #392
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I think Cherepanov's potential is astoundingly high. Based on his interviews and the games I've watched him play, he is already pretty darn mature and very intelligent.

He doesn't have the skill of an Ovechkin or Kovalchuk, but I think his vision for the ice can make up for that.

It's kind of sad that he's already being compared to Kovalev for his work ethic. I don't think he's that kind of person at all. Just because he doesn't scramble around the ice every game doesn't mean he's lazy. Efficient is more like it.

Anyway, I kind of expect a lot from him now that I've followed him for a while. It would be a shame if he didn't live up to his potential. I really hope the New York media doesn't get the best of him
I don't think there I am biased when it comes to Russians; or I am as little as you can be since prejudice or bias probably is a human instinct...

But, all I am saying, Cherepanov isn't perfect. He floats on the ice and he isn't strong.

You know, after watching Lundqvist in Europe I never doubted that he even before playing in the NHL, was top 10-15 in the world, and I stated the same thing on this board. It was the same with Staal.

But, not all that many junior stars become stars in the NHL. Lately with Malkin, AO, Kane, Bäckström and Tawes it seems some have let go of the handbreak when it comes to watching these kids. Like reading other boards all guys on team Canada are expected to become big stars et c.

Chere still must develop allot inorder to become a star in the NHL. Its important to not forget that. I agree with everyone, he got some amazing abilitys; but when it comes to his workethic -- it don't have to be in the middle of the pack of players drafted in the top 2 rounds, it don't have to be good compared to other prospects we got. No, it have to be great.

Don't get me wrong, I am expecting Cherepanov to make it to the NHL and become a star. I truley am. But, there are some questionmarks.

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01-10-2008, 06:23 PM
  #393
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I think Cherepanov's potential is astoundingly high. Based on his interviews and the games I've watched him play, he is already pretty darn mature and very intelligent.

He doesn't have the skill of an Ovechkin or Kovalchuk, but I think his vision for the ice can make up for that.

It's kind of sad that he's already being compared to Kovalev for his work ethic. I don't think he's that kind of person at all. Just because he doesn't scramble around the ice every game doesn't mean he's lazy. Efficient is more like it.

Anyway, I kind of expect a lot from him now that I've followed him for a while. It would be a shame if he didn't live up to his potential. I really hope the New York media doesn't get the best of him
Frolov his upside.

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01-10-2008, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Manhattan Blue View Post
Just my experience but leg training for hockey with a plyometrics/anaerobic concentration, multiple 25+ minute runs, and weight training with light-moderate weight/moderate-high reps with minimal rest is the best way to train for legs.

I've used a lot of different ways, and looking to add the most mass possible by weight training hard, with heavy weight, or a bodybuilder's mindset is not good. For one, your legs become hard to move and are laborious. When you look to have pop in your stride, its anything but. Secondly, if you train for more reps and less rest time its basically another way to train your body, and legs specifically, to deal with lactic acid buildup. The more you can convince your body to deal with that burn in your legs, the more its gonna show on ice. Once I started to realize that strength training with 3 rep ranges or so wasn't helping me with this, my shift to shift skating longevity and TOI endurance improved greatly.

It's funny, the transition from being a meathead to actually training for a goal in training for hockey. Trying to look like Rod Brind'Amour while skating like Crosby/Ovechkin is pretty damn hard. I rarely use any of my old static weight training methods. Now every exercise has to challenge my balance in some way - whether on one leg, balancing on dynadiscs, using a stability ball.

Core is big in hockey. Now core includes adductors and abductors I believe, so it looks to be even more the rage in hockey training.

So pretty much all this means, is I hope Cherepanov's got a good trainer.
You should never go bodybuilding style, like 4*15 or whatever they go. Half of their practise aims at widening their bloodvessels which makes the muscles apper bigger...

But, if you should have big muscles anywhere as a hockeyplayer it defeintly should be on the thighs. And they can be built pretty much like whats it called in English, thoose who compete in squating, benchpress and stuff in the Olympics for example, "heavylifting", practise.

Really long sessions, maybe 15 sets, and low reps, like 2 or 3.

This is a practise called the "Bulgarian" that really gives you strengths in the legs. Natrually you need to have good base in order to handle it.
2 * (3*60%)
1 * (2*70%)
1 * 75 %
1 * 85 %
1 * 90 %
1 * 100 %
2 * (2 * 90 %)
1 * (3 * 85 %)
3 * 90 %
1 * 100 %
1 * 85 %
2 * 85 %
3 * 80 %
1* 90 %
1 * 90 %
3 * (3 * 85 %)

Strong legs is important too. But, I defenitly agrees with you that the core is the key. Strong legs on top of that is only icing on the cake. Its what separates a Bure from the rest.


Last edited by Ola: 01-10-2008 at 06:36 PM.
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