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Are NHL Non-Goalies under 30 better?

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Old
12-20-2007, 02:04 AM
  #1
Wrigley
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Are NHL Non-Goalies under 30 better?

I tried to research this, but could find nothing. I'll post Gretzky's wonderful under 30 stats, but since his Oilers teams were better than his other teams it seems pretty meaningless. Please help me at least with your opinions.

Regular Season Playoffs
Season Team Lge GP G A Pts PIM GP G A Pts PIM
1976-77 Peterborough Petes OHA 3 0 3 3 0
1977-78 Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds OHA 64 70 112 182 14
1978-79 Indianapolis Racers WHA 8 3 3 6 0 -- -- -- -- --
1978-79 Edmonton Oilers WHA 72 43 61 104 19 13 10 10 20 2
1979-80 Edmonton Oilers NHL 79 51 86 137 21 3 2 1 3 0
1980-81 Edmonton Oilers NHL 80 55 109 164 28 9 7 14 21 4
1981-82 Edmonton Oilers NHL 80 92 120 212 26 5 5 7 12 8
1982-83 Edmonton Oilers NHL 80 71 125 196 59 16 12 26 38 4
1983-84 Edmonton Oilers NHL 74 87 118 205 39 19 13 22 35 12
1984-85 Edmonton Oilers NHL 80 73 135 208 52 18 17 30 47 4
1985-86 Edmonton Oilers NHL 80 52 163 215 46 10 8 11 19 2
1986-87 Edmonton Oilers NHL 79 62 121 183 28 21 5 29 34 6
1987-88 Edmonton Oilers NHL 64 40 109 149 24 19 12 31 43 16
1988-89 Los Angeles Kings NHL 78 54 114 168 26 11 5 17 22 0
1989-90 Los Angeles Kings NHL 73 40 102 142 42 7 3 7 10 0

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12-20-2007, 02:17 AM
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I don't get this thread? Most NHL players are at their peak before they reach 30 years old. Defencemen usually peak later than forwards. Goalies peak at all kinds of times... Goalies are always the exception... they are unique animals.

As to Gretzky... he peaked at about 25 years old... he had a brief renaisance in the 92/93 playoffs when he played as good as he ever had.... after that he was still an awesome player but never was "Gretzkesque" again.

Few players are ever at their best in their 30's. A few are... like Alfredsson since the lockout but that is the very rare exception. As good as Howe was after 30... his peak was in the early 1950's when he was 23-27 years old. Mario was still great in the first few years of his comeback but not near as good as he was from 24-29 years old. MacInnis won his only Norris post 35 years old... but he was an elite defenceman for a very long time... when he was older it just happened to be the first time no D-Man was a bit better than he was.

I'd say most forwards have their peak at about 25.... D-Men 27-29 years old. Goalies... a crap shoot but mostly in their late 20's.

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12-20-2007, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cup 2008 Sens Rule View Post
I don't get this thread? Most NHL players are at their peak before they reach 30 years old. Defencemen usually peak later than forwards. Goalies peak at all kinds of times... Goalies are always the exception... they are unique animals. As to Gretzky... he peaked at about 25 years old... he had a brief renaisance in the 92/93 playoffs when he played as good as he ever had.... after that he was still an awesome player but never was "Gretzkesque" again. Few players are ever at their best in their 30's. A few are... like Alfredsson since the lockout but that is the very rare exception. As good as Howe was after 30... his peak was in the early 1950's when he was 23-27 years old. Mario was still great in the first few years of his comeback but not near as good as he was from 24-29 years old. MacInnis won his only Norris post 35 years old... but he was an elite defenceman for a very long time... when he was older it just happened to be the first time no D-Man was a bit better than he was. I'd say most forwards have their peak at about 25.... D-Men 27-29 years old. Goalies... a crap shoot but mostly in their late 20's.
For a guy who doesn't get this thread you sure gave me the type of wonderful answer I was looking for. Thank you very much, my friend!

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12-21-2007, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cup 2008 Sens Rule View Post
I'd say most forwards have their peak at about 25.... D-Men 27-29 years old. Goalies... a crap shoot but mostly in their late 20's.
I would say D-man prime is at 30-33 range in these days. And forwards don't necessarily loose a step at all when they hit 30. They usually did in 80's and early 90's, but not anymore. Workout, diet and "medical care" have all improved to make players age better.

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12-21-2007, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slapshooter View Post
I would say D-man prime is at 30-33 range in these days. And forwards don't necessarily loose a step at all when they hit 30. They usually did in 80's and early 90's, but not anymore. Workout, diet and "medical care" have all improved to make players age better.
I hate to say it, but I don't think HGH use by athletes is that bad of a thing. Steroids? Sure, but medically supervised HGH does nothing but allow the body to heal and stay younger... something that everyone will be doing 10 or 15 years from now as a standard medical procedure.

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12-21-2007, 05:16 PM
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It's hit or miss, you never know when a Bucyk or Sakic will emerge.

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12-21-2007, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
I hate to say it, but I don't think HGH use by athletes is that bad of a thing. Steroids? Sure, but medically supervised HGH does nothing but allow the body to heal and stay younger... something that everyone will be doing 10 or 15 years from now as a standard medical procedure.
Yeah.... we will see when all these great athletes of the 90's and 00's are getting freakish cancers in their mid 50's. Dude have you seen Barry Bonds SKULL grow?!? Sorry if your skull starts growing when you are in your 30's it is not a good thing. It definately improves performance short term.... but at what cost long term?

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12-21-2007, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cup 2008 Sens Rule View Post
Yeah.... we will see when all these great athletes of the 90's and 00's are getting freakish cancers in their mid 50's. Dude have you seen Barry Bonds SKULL grow?!? Sorry if your skull starts growing when you are in your 30's it is not a good thing. It definately improves performance short term.... but at what cost long term?
That's steroids that made his head grow... not HGH. HGH is produced naturally by your body until your late 20s. It's production is one of the ways your body stays young. Hormone therapy combined with gene therapy and nanotechnology will become common place in the next 20 years. It's an entirely different animal than steroid usage. It will be hard to criticize athletes for taking it once every individual with the economic means is. Hell, Hollywood actors have been taking HGH for years now. Harrison Ford does and he looks like he's 50 at age 65. HGH will become a legitimate treatment for aging... steroids won't ever lose their horrible side-effects.

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12-21-2007, 09:19 PM
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Trottier
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Actually, players under age 20 are better. I read that right here on HF.

No, make that under age 10.

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12-21-2007, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
Actually, players under age 20 are better. I read that right here on HF.

No, make that under age 10.
They have so much untapped potential.

Plus by the time they make an impact in the NHL, the game will have evolved so much that players today wouldn't even make the AHL.

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Old
12-22-2007, 03:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cup 2008 Sens Rule View Post
Yeah.... we will see when all these great athletes of the 90's and 00's are getting freakish cancers in their mid 50's.
We'll see about that, but I was talking about players aging better with longer prime time on the ice, not about their post-career lives. I don't really care what happens(probably nothing bad, though) to them after they quit hockey. It's their choice and business.

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12-22-2007, 09:43 AM
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NHL Forwards

AgeTotal Adj. GamesAver. Adj. GamesAver. Adj. GAver. Adj. ASTAver. Adj. PTSAver. PIMAver. "HHOF Monitor" PTS
1733,000,001,001,000,000,50
18203238,348,7912,5921,3925,4323,26
19669041,049,8613,1523,0130,6722,47
201687145,4710,4613,7124,2139,7124,32
212750553,3012,9816,9329,9449,9231,02
223733157,8814,8119,3434,1452,6738,78
234547760,2315,6520,5236,1753,0639,20
245202164,9516,9722,9139,8856,3941,76
255646767,1417,9423,9541,8958,5247,49
265753367,2117,9124,2642,1659,5046,92
275984067,6917,4824,1341,6156,5642,58
286076668,6617,1624,1741,3355,5741,62
295881266,9816,2222,8839,1050,5940,28
305663061,5514,0720,5134,5843,4533,13
314733861,7213,6420,1033,7541,9935,51
323702461,7113,2320,1033,3440,8635,74
332757960,8813,0520,0833,1337,7633,22
342047561,3012,7119,9632,6736,6133,86
351432863,9613,7221,2734,9936,7431,97
36938659,7811,7318,5730,3034,0128,61
37612759,4911,1720,0331,2128,1129,63
38298454,2511,2219,6830,9021,3530,81
39210563,7914,4525,4239,8728,6133,66
40116261,1613,7923,9237,7121,2136,64
4155655,6011,2021,3032,5018,3040,25
4232454,0011,0020,3331,3325,0022,85
434949,001,0012,0013,0020,006,50
518282,0013,0022,0035,0042,0024,50


NHL Defenseman

AgeTotal Adj. GamesAver. Adj. GamesAver. Adj. GAver. Adj. ASTAver. Adj. PTSAver. PIMAver. "HHOF Monitor" PTS
1794,500,000,000,001,0027,40
1897834,932,547,8610,4033,8215,31
19339336,482,337,7110,0441,5617,61
20849346,163,6911,1114,8052,8818,65
211333651,104,1812,4516,6459,2624,90
221853854,854,3313,7318,0768,0325,41
232292258,934,7715,0819,8471,6931,50
242574161,585,0816,1021,1973,8631,78
252787762,935,1916,1221,3075,9333,55
262998064,205,3617,3322,6975,3734,33
273000264,115,0216,6721,6971,1334,69
283105063,634,9616,2621,2166,3432,96
293053164,964,7415,9520,6966,2831,57
303002259,104,1214,3518,4757,2930,51
312533258,774,0214,4918,5153,5027,87
322089860,224,2715,2319,5051,5832,75
331492258,063,9114,2618,1750,5833,68
341127658,423,7913,0116,8047,7627,46
35844259,874,0115,5519,5545,8141,18
36564055,293,8313,0416,8739,5532,29
37388560,703,8114,8718,6944,0030,49
38213853,453,6514,3217,9734,2332,20
39144555,583,7714,9218,6937,0841,49
4063845,571,9310,6412,5725,8636,96
4132053,331,1711,8313,0029,1716,63
4214448,001,679,3311,0028,0012,87
4314147,001,334,335,6754,3316,16
447676,002,0019,0021,0030,0017,15


NHL Goalies

AgeTotal Adj. GamesAver. Adj. GamesAver. "HHOF Monitor" PTS
171313,000,00
1813233,00117,00
1935417,7025,43
2083919,5110,13
21176224,4725,11
22287633,0643,61
23374137,0439,44
24464039,6643,70
25575640,8245,24
26636641,6136,09
27686242,6247,25
28706743,8944,18
29663543,3747,25
30633536,6239,63
31550238,4840,68
32473740,4944,63
33399336,9737,78
34331938,5929,18
35237237,6536,52
36168134,3146,86
37111437,1342,02
3868328,4631,83
3933537,2269,67
4031535,0031,28
4122237,0037,92
4213727,4038,90
437224,004,33
443015,002,00
451010,000,00

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