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How can Nylander/Kozlov really be this bad?

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Old
12-20-2007, 09:05 PM
  #1
CapitalsCupFantasy
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How can Nylander/Kozlov really be this bad?

Nylander
Kozlov
31games
34games
7 goals
3goals
21 assists
16 assists

28 points
19 points
-15


Nylander is putting up points like he did the last two years, but is a liability in his own end.

This looks like just another bad move in the long and pathetic career of George McPhee. $5.5 million is expensive for a Backstrom babysitter.


Kozlov is a guy who I admit I wanted the Caps to get 1.5 years ago, but he's been godawful in the offensive zone. He's a great stickhandler, but holds the puck too long and ends up circling the net getting some lame/weak shot off that many times doesn't even get on net. Two years is looking like 1 year too long right now, but he's a filler player until another young forward steps up or we make a deal for one.


Last edited by CapitalsCupFantasy: 12-21-2007 at 12:23 AM.
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12-20-2007, 09:20 PM
  #2
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Nylander is playing pretty good, but that -15 is horrible. Nylander is a PP player so that might have something to do with it, but -15 is too bad.


I'd rather have Nylander at 5.5 million then Gomez or Drury at 7 million.

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12-20-2007, 09:35 PM
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Langway
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Yeah, his +/- stat is pretty bad. Was it a terrible move to make? It's still too early to tell.

His +/- number isn't going to rebound until he clicks with his linemates during 5-on-5 play. Right now, the line of Fleischmann-Nylander-Semin has been pretty ineffective and probably deserves to be broken up.

Semin should be slotted over to LW and Kozlov put on RW. That'd give the line better presence down low and along the boards.

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12-20-2007, 09:50 PM
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txpd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Langway View Post
Yeah, his +/- stat is pretty bad. Was it a terrible move to make? It's still too early to tell.

His +/- number isn't going to rebound until he clicks with his linemates during 5-on-5 play. Right now, the line of Fleischmann-Nylander-Semin has been pretty ineffective and probably deserves to be broken up.

Semin should be slotted over to LW and Kozlov put on RW. That'd give the line better presence down low and along the boards.
I think you have put your finger on the other part of that +/- equation.

His linemates. Semin and Fleischmann are more of a defensive liability than is Nylander. The three of them together is just asking for it. This is probably why they tried Pettinger there.

If Fleischmann is not going to score, they need somebody there that is strong enough to play some defense. Semin's turnovers have been the worst on this team going to back to the Potsie gaffe. But they need him to start scoring and have to live with that to some extent. Fleischmann just isn't bringing enough.

You could see it. That game was there to be won with a goal or two in the first half of the game. It didn't happen.

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Old
12-20-2007, 09:51 PM
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I dunno. Seems that jagr and rangers miss nylander so it isnt so bad.

Backstrom on the other hand

He will be an amazing player in 2 seasons.

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12-21-2007, 12:12 AM
  #6
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Nylander was a minus player (I think) at the beginning of the season when he played with Backstrom as well. Of course, the team as a whole was a minus team, so well, -15 for the caps I guess is roughly as bad as -5 is for the red wings...

Either way, he tends to have quite a few turnovers. He also gets a bit fancy in his own zone or in the neutral zone at times. I think some of that has to do with him getting to know his linemates too. Since right now when he drops the puck in the middle of the ice, the guy who he intended to pick it up doesn't see it coming, and so on.
However, I think you'll have to live with some turnovers from him, and find some way to get a line together to cope with it. Also, he will be a good player on the PP, and worth a few turnovers every now and then. It should go down as the season progesses.

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12-21-2007, 08:47 AM
  #7
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I don't know what people expected from these guys? I said it as soon as Nylander was signed that the Caps gave him to much money and to many years. There is a reason why this guy has bounced around the league like he has. Other than when he plays with Jagr, he has never been more than a solid 2nd line center. And he hasn't ever done much of in his own end and he really doesn't score goals.

Kozlov is as advertised. I still think it was a decent signing as 2.5 per isn't much at all and the Caps needed a RW. And the fact he gets on well with the 2 stars is also good. Its only a 2 year deal so its not going to hurt the team in anyway. But he is an average 2nd line RW, thats it.

But the Nylander signing wasn't a good contract. I said that when he first signed it.

I have been a big GMGM supporter since the lockout, but I will say now what i said months ago. He did not do a good job getting value for money this summer. Especially in the Nylander deal.

The two centers I wanted the Caps to look at where Handzus and Comrie. Handzus got way to much money (I was expecting around 2.5 per) so that isn't a contract I would go near as I think that is worse than the Nylander contract. But Comrie is pretty much putting up the exact same #'s as Nylander and he is doing it for 1.5 per less (2.125 per less in actual salary).

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12-21-2007, 09:20 AM
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I don't know what people expected from these guys? I said it as soon as Nylander was signed that the Caps gave him to much money and to many years. There is a reason why this guy has bounced around the league like he has. Other than when he plays with Jagr, he has never been more than a solid 2nd line center. And he hasn't ever done much of in his own end and he really doesn't score goals.

Kozlov is as advertised. I still think it was a decent signing as 2.5 per isn't much at all and the Caps needed a RW. And the fact he gets on well with the 2 stars is also good. Its only a 2 year deal so its not going to hurt the team in anyway. But he is an average 2nd line RW, thats it.

But the Nylander signing wasn't a good contract. I said that when he first signed it.

I have been a big GMGM supporter since the lockout, but I will say now what i said months ago. He did not do a good job getting value for money this summer. Especially in the Nylander deal.

The two centers I wanted the Caps to look at where Handzus and Comrie. Handzus got way to much money (I was expecting around 2.5 per) so that isn't a contract I would go near as I think that is worse than the Nylander contract. But Comrie is pretty much putting up the exact same #'s as Nylander and he is doing it for 1.5 per less (2.125 per less in actual salary).
handzus is terrible. his 10 points out in la bear that out. nylander's putting up points, which is all he's asked to do. and to the extent, if any, he's responsible for helping backstrom along, he's worth whatever we're paying him.

kozlov is completely snake bit right now. watching him laughing last night after two golden opportunities that didn't go in told the whole story. i have a feeling as soon as one goes in for him, he'll be ok.

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12-21-2007, 09:22 AM
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But the Nylander signing wasn't a good contract. I said that when he first signed it.
Didn't most of us say that?

I just like the fact that Backstrom is quickly establishing himself as an offensive threat while playing a decent 2 way game. And if Nylander is helping with his development in anyway...then it might be worth what we are paying him with what he provides.

Edit: pgreene and I obviously are on the same page on Nylander.

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Old
12-21-2007, 09:22 AM
  #10
Chimaera
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Comrie has been invisible for stretches. I'm also not sure I'd take him not knowing how he would fit in the lockerroom. Nylander was a known quantity in DC.

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12-21-2007, 09:23 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasper17 View Post
I have been a big GMGM supporter since the lockout, but I will say now what i said months ago. He did not do a good job getting value for money this summer. Especially in the Nylander deal.

The two centers I wanted the Caps to look at where Handzus and Comrie. Handzus got way to much money (I was expecting around 2.5 per) so that isn't a contract I would go near as I think that is worse than the Nylander contract. But Comrie is pretty much putting up the exact same #'s as Nylander and he is doing it for 1.5 per less (2.125 per less in actual salary).
Comrie would have been a smart signing. I remember you pushing hard for him and disagreeing vehemently with you. With the emergence of Backstrom, we really don't need a center signed to Nylander's contract -either in terms of $$ and especially length. And if we did sign Comrie, we'd still need to find a 2nd line center for next season, and the available guys are very weak.

Who knows though. Signing Nylander probably got Ovechkin pretty excited in the offseason...not that that really matters now. And Nylander's presence here may be a make or break factor for Backstrom.

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12-21-2007, 10:13 AM
  #12
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I dont really get why people are so down on nylander, people have to high of expections of him. Last time Nylander was in Washington he was 17g 39A 56p +3 while he was playing with much better players. Right now he is on pace to have better stats then his last time in washington.

Career Stats
Stats
Year Team GP G A Pts +/- PIM PPG PPA SHG SHA GW GT SOG Pct
1992-93 HAR 59 11 22 33 -7 36 3 4 0 0 1 0 85 .129
1993-94 HAR 58 11 33 44 -2 24 4 7 0 0 1 2 74 .149
1993-94 CGY 15 2 9 11 10 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 21 .095
1994-95 CGY 6 0 1 1 1 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 .000
1995-96 CGY 73 17 38 55 0 20 4 15 0 0 6 0 163 .104
1997-98 CGY 65 13 23 36 10 24 0 5 0 0 2 0 117 .111
1998-99 CGY 9 2 3 5 1 2 1 1 0 0 0 0 7 .286
1998-99 TB 24 2 7 9 -10 6 0 3 0 0 0 0 26 .077
1999-00 TB 11 1 2 3 -3 4 1 1 0 0 0 0 10 .100
1999-00 CHI 66 23 28 51 9 26 4 7 0 0 2 0 112 .205
2000-01 CHI 82 25 39 64 7 32 4 11 0 2 5 0 176 .142
2001-02 CHI 82 15 46 61 28 50 6 14 0 0 2 0 158 .095
2002-03 CHI 9 0 4 4 0 4 0 2 0 0 0 0 20 .000
2002-03 WAS 71 17 39 56 3 36 7 10 0 0 2 0 141 .121
2003-04 WAS 3 0 2 2 1 8 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 .000
2003-04 BOS 15 1 11 12 3 14 0 4 0 0 1 0 29 .034
2005-06 NYR 81 23 56 79 31 76 6 11 0 0 4 0 172 .134
2006-07 NYR 79 26 57 83 12 42 14 23 0 0 4 0 193 .135
2007-08 WAS 31 7 21 28 -15 20 4 11 0 0 1 0 67 .104
Career 839 196 441 637 79 432 58 129 0 2 31 2 1574 .125

Other then 2 seasons when he had an oustanding +/- Nylander has been about an even player. If anything looking at his career stats, we should be happy with his production this season. Wait untill the end of the season to judge +/- right now it is bad, but Nyles has not been a minus player since 1998/99. Last time he played a full season and was a minus was his 2nd season.

Give Nylander a little break on turnover issues, Nylander is under his 3rd coach in the last calender year. And learning all these new systems is hard for every one even vetrens like Nyles. And with all these problems hes just under averaging a point per game. 5.5 mill is not bad for a PPG player who brings vetren leadership and years of experience.

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12-21-2007, 10:21 AM
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its the 5 on 5 play, and the fact that on the PP, the other team has started to surround him to take away his spins. Probably gripping the stick too hard, but once BB figures out some chemistry between him and other players his +/- should hopefully improve.

What kind of players doe Nylander need for his spins? SOme on to post up at the net, but looking for a pass instead of a defelction? some one breaking down the opposite side into space? Both?

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12-21-2007, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovechkins Wodka View Post
Give Nylander a little break on turnover issues, Nylander is under his 3rd coach in the last calender year. And learning all these new systems is hard for every one even vetrens like Nyles. And with all these problems hes just under averaging a point per game. 5.5 mill is not bad for a PPG player who brings vetren leadership and years of experience.
That has always been Nylander's MO, horrible play in his own end...he's been as advertised just like Kozlov

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12-21-2007, 10:28 AM
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I would like to beaver tail a stick into his skull at times. Just so annoying. I'm pretty certain its annoying for other players too.




I don't think he has been exceptionally bad, I just don't think he has been great. I do think it will take most of a season to really find out whether or not he was a bad pickup. I think as far as players playing with him, Semin probably has the best skills to adjust to his playing style and fit well. His release and accuracy would go decently well slipping loose in the slot and then ripping one after a feed from Nylander. However, I think the problem is two fold why it isn't working. One, Nylander is used to players setting up for the one timer and him sending the passes. The counter to that is the fact that our players are too busy trying to do it themselves and create with the puck on their own sticks. It takes a while to get less reliant on your own stick work and wait for others.

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12-21-2007, 10:31 AM
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I still also don't think you can put a price on his value to Backstrom. Sure the team has enough vets (and young players willing to help him out, Ovechkin mainly) but I don't think you can put a price on the value Nylander has given.

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12-21-2007, 10:35 AM
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he's been as advertised just like Kozlov
Yup, we got what we (should have) expected. Heck, the Rangers and Islanders fans came over here and told us exactly what to expect, so no one should be surprised.

Really the only problem with the two is that they seem to have zero chemistry with the rest of the team.

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12-21-2007, 10:53 AM
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Really the only problem with the two is that they seem to have zero chemistry with the rest of the team.
but Kozlov was perfect for Ovy, didn't you see the Olympics and their chemistry during it? honestly I don't mind the Kolzov signing

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12-21-2007, 11:04 AM
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Brashear - Nylander - Bradley

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12-21-2007, 11:04 AM
  #20
Ovechkins Wodka
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I still also don't think you can put a price on his value to Backstrom. Sure the team has enough vets (and young players willing to help him out, Ovechkin mainly) but I don't think you can put a price on the value Nylander has given.
Every time i have gone to a caps practice Nylander is one of the hardest workers. He does stick handling after practice. Him setting an example of work ethic like that is very good for the young players.

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12-21-2007, 11:51 AM
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Really the only problem with the two is that they seem to have zero chemistry with the rest of the team.
Yeah, but who really has good chemistry with the rest of the team? The PP isn't as good as it was upon Boudreau initially taking over. It has had some golden opportunities lately but hasn't been converting often enough.

Backstrom and Ovechkin have shown a bit of chemistry but it looks like Boudreau is putting Backstrom on the second line tomorrow night (and putting Nylander & Kozlov w/ Ovechkin). The grinders have chemistry together but it more often than not results in cycling the puck for a shift in vain. Chemistry is an issue and it's larger than just those two guys. Boudreau has brought in more energy and resiliency but the players still could stand to make smarter decisions with the puck and drive the net harder.

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12-21-2007, 12:07 PM
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txpd
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Every time i have gone to a caps practice Nylander is one of the hardest workers. He does stick handling after practice. Him setting an example of work ethic like that is very good for the young players.
Nylander is an uber-fitness guy. Sort of in the Bondra vein. He works tirelessly. That broken leg that Yonkman gave him would have ended half of the hockey careers of over 30 year old players in the league.

I don't think we give the credit to Nylander that he should get. He plays a skill game, but he is tough as nails. Probably right up there with Clark in pain threshold.

What you have to look at is what he has to work with. OV needs to carry the puck. He is not really a guy that goes to the open space, to catch and shoot like Brett Hull.
So, Nylander's puck control and passing doesn't seem to help him much.

Semin would be the better fit, but Semin just isn't closing the deal when he gets his shots. Maybe that will come. Then their is Fleischmann. Nylander could spend his career passing Flash the puck and nothing could happen from it.

Even with all that he is nearly a point per game.

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12-21-2007, 12:14 PM
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Even with all that he is nearly a point per game.
And -15


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Old
12-21-2007, 12:19 PM
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Kozov played by far his best hockey for us last season when he was at center. Has he been tried there at all for the caps?

And you guys don't want Comrie. He disappears for 10 games at a time, then he scores a goal that is meaningless. And Bill Guerin..oooff. HE has been so bad I can't even start to explain.

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12-21-2007, 12:25 PM
  #25
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Kozlov is fine, he is getting his chances and is just snake bit. He is not a 40 goal guy anyways. The problem with Nylander at even strength is that he likes to stay up high on the RW boards near right point, our snipers Ovey and Semin are about as far away as they can possibly be to get a pass, over in the left wing circle. Thats a tough pass even for a big assist guy like Nylander. He is an old dog that may not learn new tricks thus our snipers NEED to get into a passing lane so he doesnt turn it over so often trying to make the impossible pass, leading to a minus. Nylander is a high skill player in this league. Do not read into his minus too much, just like we didnt last year with Ovey's dreadful numbers. We are in last place, last place teams have -15's.

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