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Vanbiesbrouck VS Lundqvist

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Old
12-21-2007, 06:24 PM
  #26
WheresBarnaby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
This thread is bunk. The truth is Beezer was no Richter, and time will tell, but Henrik may very likely beat out Mike.
This same thread was posted on the main board too. So I'll put it like I did there. Beezer was traded so Richter could be #1. Richter won the cup for us. Richter said Lundqvist was, or will be, the best Ranger goalie ever. (in an interview around the marathon)

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12-21-2007, 06:42 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Eagle20 View Post
I think its great how people tote Lundqvist's Vezina finalist ****. He got a total of 7 pts. to tie him with Kipper. And none of them were either 1st or 2nd. He finished nowhere near Luongo (116 pts) or Brodeur (122). Ryan Miller finished 3 points behind Lundqvist.

Now I'm not saying that Beezer is better then Lundqvist because he blatantly is not. But some other people are saying that he is better then Richter. Bring the Rags a cup and then you can make that arguement. How quickly some of you guys forget what Richter meant to your team for so many years.
Yeah, and Hasek wasn't a great goalie all those years in Buffalo because he didn't win a Cup. And Bourque was nothing special because he never won a Cup with the Bruins.

The notion that the best goalie wins the Cup is simplistic.

Lundqvist is alreaady better than Richter ever was, Cup or no Cup. Giacomin was better than Richter, too.

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12-21-2007, 06:52 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle20 View Post
I think its great how people tote Lundqvist's Vezina finalist ****. He got a total of 7 pts. to tie him with Kipper. And none of them were either 1st or 2nd. He finished nowhere near Luongo (116 pts) or Brodeur (122). Ryan Miller finished 3 points behind Lundqvist.

Now I'm not saying that Beezer is better then Lundqvist because he blatantly is not. But some other people are saying that he is better then Richter. Bring the Rags a cup and then you can make that arguement. How quickly some of you guys forget what Richter meant to your team for so many years.
No one forgets what Richter did, take a poll of who Ranger fans think the greatest Rangers were and I can asure you that Richter will be named quite often. But the notion that you need to win the cup to say one player is better than another is ridiculous. Using that logic Aaron Ward was better than Bourque because he has more cup rings right?

Its a team game.

As for the number of vezina votes, how many did DP get? how many for Miller? How many for all the other goalies in the league not named Brodeur,Kipper,or Luongo? He played out of him mind for the majority of last season, and damn well the season before and deserved the attention and the nominations he got.


Last edited by Finest: 12-21-2007 at 07:05 PM.
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12-21-2007, 07:57 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Yeah, and Hasek wasn't a great goalie all those years in Buffalo because he didn't win a Cup. And Bourque was nothing special because he never won a Cup with the Bruins.

The notion that the best goalie wins the Cup is simplistic.

Lundqvist is alreaady better than Richter ever was, Cup or no Cup. Giacomin was better than Richter, too.
Giacomin was the best of the Ranger Goalies i agree 100% but no way is hank in Richters class till he wins something. He is not elite at all very good yes but nothing more. There are 5 guys right now i would take over Hank to win a game 7

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12-21-2007, 08:46 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
Giacomin was the best of the Ranger Goalies i agree 100% but no way is hank in Richters class till he wins something. He is not elite at all very good yes but nothing more. There are 5 guys right now i would take over Hank to win a game 7
and just who are those 5 guys? I'm curious. I can see one that's a no-brainer, and one that's questionable for that, but I don't see 5 at all. At least currently...

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12-21-2007, 08:55 PM
  #31
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nabkov
Broduer
Luongo
kipruoff
Miller

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12-21-2007, 09:44 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
nabkov
Broduer
Luongo
kipruoff
Miller
*** man?

You'd rather have Ryan ****ing Miller or Evgeni Nabakov than Henrik Lundqvist?


Man....I've heard it all now. I mean Brodeur and Luongo I can understand, and Kipper's good too..but Lundqvist is beast man, Nabakov and Miller aren't in the same league as Lundy and Lundy will only get better..

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12-21-2007, 09:50 PM
  #33
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no way! cherepanov is better than kovalev and staal is better than leetch. ... ... ...

Don't you think it's a bit early to compare these players? Like didn't they compare Theodore to Roy after he won the Vezina and we all see how that turned out.

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Old
12-21-2007, 11:39 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
Giacomin was the best of the Ranger Goalies i agree 100% but no way is hank in Richters class till he wins something. He is not elite at all very good yes but nothing more. There are 5 guys right now i would take over Hank to win a game 7
I see from your profile that you born in 1970, no way are you old enough to have followed Giacomin's career. I have spoken to many old-timers who have said Giacomin was very good, but not as great as people make him out to be and a lot of it has to do with his popularity. In fact, a few have told me the real reason they lost to Boston in 72 was Cheevers played head and shoulders above Giacomin in the series. Also have heard that Giacomin was never a big game goalie.

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12-21-2007, 11:40 PM
  #35
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I am a huge fan of Richter, but I think if I had to choose between the 2, I am taking Lundqvist. He is just entering his prime and is still improving.

As for Lundqvist vs Beezer, it is not even close. Lundqvist by a country mile.

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12-21-2007, 11:42 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
Beezer>Richter>Lundqvist

Although Henke has flaws in his game, puckhandling, playing too deep in the crease, skating behind the goal...his intensisty, athleticism, focus, and 6th sense to always know where the puck is helps him to do the one thing that a goalie must do, "stop the puck from going in the net". And he does it quite well. Is he the next Roy or Brodeur, no, I'll settle for a Hasek though.
Ha ha, think you need to study up some old math work. Your first part says Beezer is better than Richter and Richter is better than Lundqvist. Your paragraph says otherwise. Unless, I am just completely lost.

Beezer<Richter<Lundqvist

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12-22-2007, 12:18 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno Ranger View Post
*** man?

You'd rather have Ryan ****ing Miller or Evgeni Nabakov than Henrik Lundqvist?


Man....I've heard it all now. I mean Brodeur and Luongo I can understand, and Kipper's good too..but Lundqvist is beast man, Nabakov and Miller aren't in the same league as Lundy and Lundy will only get better..
Miller won how many games last year in the playoffs vs the Rangers? He is clutch and yes i would take him for one game over MR 450GAA Hank lol . As far as Gicomin goes I watched him as a kid yes i was young but I also read and study the NHL listen the guy with any kind of luck would have won 3 cups in NY plus Eddie coached my brother and we became friends so i admit a soft spot

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12-22-2007, 10:51 AM
  #38
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You people have real short term memory. Lundqvist is great and may continue to be great (perhaps even the best), but 1994 (actually the majority of that decade) Richter stomps on anybody else mentioned in this thread, at any point in time.

(with the exception of a post or two mentioning Roy or Broduer)

Personally, I still maintain that Richter was great throughout his entire career, including all those non-playoff years. His numbers were just completely murdered by some of the worst defense anybody had ever seen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2K4rW6LlyI


Last edited by Theoren Fan: 12-22-2007 at 11:00 AM.
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Old
12-22-2007, 11:00 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
I see from your profile that you born in 1970, no way are you old enough to have followed Giacomin's career. I have spoken to many old-timers who have said Giacomin was very good, but not as great as people make him out to be and a lot of it has to do with his popularity. In fact, a few have told me the real reason they lost to Boston in 72 was Cheevers played head and shoulders above Giacomin in the series. Also have heard that Giacomin was never a big game goalie.
I was there in 72 and the only reason that the Rangers didn't win was a fellow named Orr, and I don't mean Colton.

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12-22-2007, 01:33 PM
  #40
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Hank is our man...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno Ranger View Post
*** man?

You'd rather have Ryan ****ing Miller or Evgeni Nabakov than Henrik Lundqvist?


Man....I've heard it all now. I mean Brodeur and Luongo I can understand, and Kipper's good too..but Lundqvist is beast man, Nabakov and Miller aren't in the same league as Lundy and Lundy will only get better..
I will live and die with him as long as hes in net for us... I will take him over any1. How can u say Ryan Miller??? I dont know how any die hard Ranger fan can say that. Those goalies u named are great but u have to ride or die with Lundqvist. Game 7 all the way. He won his first gold at 23. Hank will become the #1 Ranger goalie in all stats by the end of his playing days... I say hes a 500 + win goalie....If he can stay healthy and be on winnings teams...Ofcourse

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12-22-2007, 02:06 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Bruno Ranger View Post
Haha. You are truly correct my friend, quoted the wrong person. Meant to quote:

Sorry.
LOL dont confuse me like that bro!

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Old
12-23-2007, 10:27 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by swammerhead View Post
this thread is a joke. Beezer's better than Hank? 3 yrs into Hanks career... I find it funny to even consider it. At the end of Hanks Career, this thread will look like an April Fools' thread.

I also find it funny that this thread is surfacing at this time when the team has been losing & Hank hasn't looked superhuman for a few games here & there (all while netting 2 shutouts).

This thread is laughable.
Overrated!

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Old
12-23-2007, 10:35 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
This thread is bunk. The truth is Beezer was no Richter, and time will tell, but Henrik may very likely beat out Mike.
Overrated - just like Staal - not my problem that you don't have the ability to be an objective Ranger fan. I love the Rangers but I don't agree with overhyping players. I was more impressed with Lundqvist his first year.

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12-27-2007, 04:13 AM
  #44
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The comparison is unfair.

It's far too early to tell how great Lundqvist will be... he could get succumb to a career-ending injury, turn into a Jim Carey, etc., or go on to become one of the great players of his generation.

Vanbiesbrouck, on the other hand...

there is absolutely NO WAY the Florida Panthers would've made the finals in 96 without his heroic play. This was a team whose leading scorer was Dave Lowry, for pity's sake. Beezer pulled a Roy and led the Panthers past Lindros, LeClair, Desjardins and Hextall's powerhouse Flyers team, and then shut down Lemieux, Jagr, Francis, Zubov and company in a stunning upset against the Penguins. He posted a .932 save percentage over 22 games.

He was in contention for a Vezina 9 times in his career, winning it once (in 86, his second season), coming in as first runner-up once (94). He was also selected to play in 4 All-Star games.

Don't be so quick to crap on Beezer's legacy. The guy was a stud who held down the number one goaltending job on each of his various teams for 17 consecutive seasons. He was definitely one of the best goalies of the last 30 years.

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12-27-2007, 05:30 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theoren Fan View Post
You people have real short term memory. Lundqvist is great and may continue to be great (perhaps even the best), but 1994 (actually the majority of that decade) Richter stomps on anybody else mentioned in this thread, at any point in time.

(with the exception of a post or two mentioning Roy or Broduer)

Personally, I still maintain that Richter was great throughout his entire career, including all those non-playoff years. His numbers were just completely murdered by some of the worst defense anybody had ever seen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2K4rW6LlyI
Finally.....the voice of reason! Richter was a VICTIM of a piss poor defense for a MAJOR part of his career also. I think Lundqvist will go down as one of the great goaltenders when all is said and done.....but I don't think it should lessen or cheapen Richter's accomplishments. As far as Eddie goes, I saw him play quite a bit as a kid, and to me, he was a great goaltender.

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Old
12-27-2007, 07:56 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jake1970 View Post
I choose Vanbiesbrouck. Better glove, better with the puck, just as good positionally and post to post - more athletic. This may be blasphemy to the Ranger community but I am not as high on Lundqvist as most of you. I think he is a very good goalie positionally and post to post but we all know he is terrible with the puck and uses his glove as a blocker. I think he has been blown up as the next Roy or Brodeur - he is not. I would not pay him $7M a season - I wouldn't pay him $5M either. I just got a message from a Swede who agreed that he is overrated.
Well, we are all entitled to our opinions, but Henrik has already done what Beezer didn't and that was win 30 games on consecutive seasons. Additionally he has been nominated for the Vezina Trophy 2 consecutive seasons, something Beezer has never done.

And while I'm at it, while I loved Beezer while he was in NY, for the most part he was a marginal goalie with marginal numbers. He had 1 season with his GAA under 3.00 and only 2 seasons with a Save Percentage of .900 or better. Blame the team, Blame the era whatever, but good goalies back then has GAA's under 3.00 and SvPct's over .900. While they looked nothing like today numbers, they were still much better than what we had been seeing from Johnny.

Henrik has a quicker glove, he's better positionally, better with his blocker and stick, better at controlling rebounds and Henrik has better hockey vision than Beezer had. While I liked the Beezer, I would (hands down) take Henrik over him AND Richter any day of the week.

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12-27-2007, 08:18 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Bear View Post
The comparison is unfair.

It's far too early to tell how great Lundqvist will be... he could get succumb to a career-ending injury, turn into a Jim Carey, etc., or go on to become one of the great players of his generation.

Vanbiesbrouck, on the other hand...

there is absolutely NO WAY the Florida Panthers would've made the finals in 96 without his heroic play. This was a team whose leading scorer was Dave Lowry, for pity's sake. Beezer pulled a Roy and led the Panthers past Lindros, LeClair, Desjardins and Hextall's powerhouse Flyers team, and then shut down Lemieux, Jagr, Francis, Zubov and company in a stunning upset against the Penguins. He posted a .932 save percentage over 22 games.

He was in contention for a Vezina 9 times in his career, winning it once (in 86, his second season), coming in as first runner-up once (94). He was also selected to play in 4 All-Star games.

Don't be so quick to crap on Beezer's legacy. The guy was a stud who held down the number one goaltending job on each of his various teams for 17 consecutive seasons. He was definitely one of the best goalies of the last 30 years.
I you consider the split job with Richter in 90-91, but what's a bit more telling is that who got the nod for the PO's that year? Not Beezer.

Also, with Florida, if there was ever a team that defined the trap, it was Florida. I would venture to guess that if that team were even a slightly a bit more interested in trying to win some games as opposed to not losing games, Beezer's numbers in Florida would have been alot different as well. I don't care who you are as a goalie, if the only thing the team in front of you does is play a suffocating brand of defence with no desire to attack, your numbers will look GREAT.

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12-27-2007, 08:55 AM
  #48
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Im not saying Beezer is better than the King, but you cant look at the numbers (GAA, Save PCT.) because the NHL is a different world today then it was 20 years ago. Patrick Roy had a .891 Save Pct with a 2.93 GAA average in 86-87 and most years around that time were about the same.

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12-27-2007, 10:26 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by jake1970 View Post
Overrated - just like Staal - not my problem that you don't have the ability to be an objective Ranger fan. I love the Rangers but I don't agree with overhyping players. I was more impressed with Lundqvist his first year.
I don't have the ability to be an objective Ranger fan? I was torn apart the day we lost Beezer...but the reality is Richter was the far superior goalie. So to say that Beezer is better than than Hank is just plain foolish. Who is overhyping Lundqvist? I'm not saying he's the best of all time. But he has won Olympic Gold, and he's on his way to being nominated for Vezina for the 3rd straight year. So you were more impressed with him his first year? What does that have to do with him being a better goalie than Beezer? I guess if a Swede agrees with you you have to be right.

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12-27-2007, 11:07 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubba5 View Post
Im not saying Beezer is better than the King, but you cant look at the numbers (GAA, Save PCT.) because the NHL is a different world today then it was 20 years ago. Patrick Roy had a .891 Save Pct with a 2.93 GAA average in 86-87 and most years around that time were about the same.
I agree that numbers do not totally tell the story, but Roy is the exception to the rule.

When most everyone else was sporting GAA higher than 3.00 and SvPct lower than .900, Roy was usually under 3.00 and higher than .900 With the 86-87 season the exception to that.

the following 5 years he averaged a 2.60 GAA and a .908 SvPct

It's not until Later, MUCH later in Beezer's career that he could boast similar numbers.

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