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Trade: Justin Williams for Danny Markov

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Old
01-20-2004, 10:32 AM
  #1
John Flyers Fan
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Trade: Justin Williams for Danny Markov

http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=68891

Discuss.

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01-20-2004, 10:36 AM
  #2
Dr Love
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WTF?

Williams?!?! WILLIAMS?!?! Dear lord Clarke, what has gotten into you? Ugh. Williams is the last player I expected to be dealt.

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01-20-2004, 10:37 AM
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what the f?????
i was just gonna get his jersey!

wow! this one took me by surprise.

later,
dutch


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01-20-2004, 10:40 AM
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Great.

So Clarke passed on Antropov, Markov and a 1st to get Hlavac and Johnsson, but now trades Williams for him?

Which would you rather have: Williams, Antropov and a 1st or Johnsson?

Markov is a good defender, but this is a win-now move that really does nothing to improve our chances (read: not a goaltender).

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01-20-2004, 10:57 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Love
Williams?!?! WILLIAMS?!?! Dear lord Clarke, what has gotten into you? Ugh. Williams is the last player I expected to be dealt.
24 games without a goal. I love what Williams brings to the team, but between him and Gagne, they had a combined 1 goal in the Flyers last 24 games. One of them was likely to be moved.

Markov is a good defenseman, and can be a top 4 player, it's not like Williams was dealt for 6-7 guy.

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01-20-2004, 11:03 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCD
Great.

So Clarke passed on Antropov, Markov and a 1st to get Hlavac and Johnsson, but now trades Williams for him?

Which would you rather have: Williams, Antropov and a 1st or Johnsson?

Markov is a good defender, but this is a win-now move that really does nothing to improve our chances (read: not a goaltender).
Timing - at the time Markov was having back trouble. Also Antropov was coming off major knee surgery.

Trading for a 27 year old defenseman isn't exactly a "win-now" move. Markov will be around for a while and would be needed next year when Therien and Weinrich are not re-signed.

Desjardins, Johnsson, Ragnarsson, Markov, Pitkanen & Seidenberg/Vandermeer.

I don't love the trade but I certainly don't hate the deal either. Markov gives us a physical presence we could use on the blueline.

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01-20-2004, 11:09 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCD
Great.

So Clarke passed on Antropov, Markov and a 1st to get Hlavac and Johnsson, but now trades Williams for him?

Which would you rather have: Williams, Antropov and a 1st or Johnsson?

Markov is a good defender, but this is a win-now move that really does nothing to improve our chances (read: not a goaltender).
Timing - at the time Markov was having back trouble. Also Antropov was coming off major knee surgery.

Trading for a 27 year old defenseman isn't exactly a "win-now" move. Markov will be around for a while and would be needed next year when Therien and Weinrich are not re-signed.

Desjardins, Johnsson, Ragnarsson, Markov, Pitkanen & Seidenberg/Vandermeer.

I don't love the trade but I certainly don't hate the deal either. Markov gives us a physical presence we could use on the blueline.

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01-20-2004, 11:19 AM
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I don't hate this deal, but I am angry...

I'd agree with "win now" if we lost these guys right at the trade deadling. One less right wing, and there are still too many centers.

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01-20-2004, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
I don't love the trade but I certainly don't hate the deal either. Markov gives us a physical presence we could use on the blueline.
But does it get this team closer to the Cup? Marginally. If you're going to trade Williams or Gagne, the return better get the Flyers more than marginally closer to a Cup.

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01-20-2004, 11:25 AM
  #10
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I don't hate this deal either, but... I dunno... I guess I've always thought that Williams could bring in something with a little more value, being 22 years old and such. But maybe GM's around the league weren't impressed with his play this year, and thus we were stuck?

Well, at least the party going Markov will be satisfied with the choices he has in Philly. :p

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01-20-2004, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Love
But does it get this team closer to the Cup? Marginally. If you're going to trade Williams or Gagne, the return better get the Flyers more than marginally closer to a Cup.
I think there is serious over-reacting to this. Williams wasn't a great player. He skated around accomplishing very little. He'd gone 25 games without a goal. He didn't keep players from scoring while killing penalties. So what did he do that was so great? Getting a good defenseman now helps the Flyers stay in the race for a top spot for the playoffs. I think it does get the Flyers closer to a Cup. It adds good depth on the blueline. Think about what the blueline will look like when Desjardins gets back. This is MUCH better!

Funny side note: I have Comcast on right now, and they did the little bit where a player says "you're watching Comcast SportsNet" and it was Justin Williams!

But on the official site, Williams has already been removed from the roster list. This on a site that updates so infrequently I use Flyers History as my official stats site for the Flyers.

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01-20-2004, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Love
But does it get this team closer to the Cup? Marginally. If you're going to trade Williams or Gagne, the return better get the Flyers more than marginally closer to a Cup.
It depends on what you're dealing them for. If Markov or whatever player Williams or Gagne was dealt for was 31 or 34 than yes, I'd say ut would have to be a huge upgrade for me to make the deal.

I also think the very good play of Patrick Sharp, allowed the Flyers to consider the move as well.

Bottom line is if Williams had scored a few goals in his last 24 games, he likely would still be here.

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01-20-2004, 12:22 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overtime
I think there is serious over-reacting to this. Williams wasn't a great player. He skated around accomplishing very little. He'd gone 25 games without a goal. He didn't keep players from scoring while killing penalties. So what did he do that was so great? Getting a good defenseman now helps the Flyers stay in the race for a top spot for the playoffs. I think it does get the Flyers closer to a Cup. It adds good depth on the blueline. Think about what the blueline will look like when Desjardins gets back. This is MUCH better!

Funny side note: I have Comcast on right now, and they did the little bit where a player says "you're watching Comcast SportsNet" and it was Justin Williams!

But on the official site, Williams has already been removed from the roster list. This on a site that updates so infrequently I use Flyers History as my official stats site for the Flyers.
But the Flyers aren't a defenseman away from the Cup. They need goal scorers and a proven goalie. Danny Markov isn't that. That's my point.

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01-20-2004, 12:26 PM
  #14
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I love JW, qick trigger to give him up by BC. Markov is very good though, and is decent physically and chips in on O. He will likely be our #2 even when Eric returns as he fits in this system. Just a tough pill to swallow on a team with very limited young wingers and really no sure bet prospects coming on wing.
Can Sharp play wing? Should he?
Is this the last deal, or is another winger coming?
Cups are won from the net out and at least BC is getting closer to the net, although I like Esche overall.

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Old
01-20-2004, 12:31 PM
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WTF! I'm pretty pissed off in giving Willie up! :mad: OK, he hasn't accomplished a lot this season, statistically speaking, but this guy is a warrior. He was for sur our hardest worker since he joined the team.
OK, Markov will bring the physical part we needed for. But I'm just sick to see another youngster traded after Clarkie panicked!

Where is the Clarkie's famous "YOUTH MOVEMENT"?? uh???

Clarke must Go!

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01-20-2004, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Love
But the Flyers aren't a defenseman away from the Cup. They need goal scorers and a proven goalie. Danny Markov isn't that. That's my point.
I think this is a good trade for both teams. FLyers may have overpayed a bit, but I think markov is a very good dman and he is young.

The problem is that now having traded Woywitka, Williams, and a #1 while not addressing th need in goal. Now if they do, they wil most likely have to move one of Gagne, Carter, Richards, Pitkanen especially if they go after a Khabibulin.

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01-20-2004, 12:37 PM
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Here's what I've read about Markov.

He's Russian and threatened to stay in Russia before Carolina signed him.

He's fragile. He's never made it through a complete season.

He's tough and can score. His point totals aren't impressive though.

He's on his 4th team. So good people love to trade him.

Williams is young and leaves everything on the ice. He's a hard worker, doesn't take **** from anyone. He and Gagne haven't scored, but they have been bounced around to different line combos and both work hard defensively.

Feels like a panic move. Sharp is another center so having him doesn't exactly make Williams expendable. Lapointe coming back makes a center expendable, like Handzus. If Williams gets them Markov, what would Handzus get them? What does Somik bring? How about Somik and Handzus? How about a package for something to get excited about?

Since I am powerless to do anything I'll have to wait and see, but I don't like it.

 
Old
01-20-2004, 12:51 PM
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Simply put, when the other GM"s out there know that we're in a desperate hunt for a defenceman, they ain't going to settle for a small package when they are aware Clarke was milked in his last desperate situation (OATES) Considering Markov is a great defenceman, I don't think this deal is as bad as people seem to make it. Sure we all loved Williams, his work ethic was uncanny, but this is a business fellas, and sometimes people need to be let go. I hope to God we don't revisit this trade in a year from today! Any word on Markov in the lineup tonight, my guess is he will be and I believe Williams will be in Carolina's lineup as well.

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01-20-2004, 12:53 PM
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**** this trade and **** Clarke,it's his fault! You know,this just makes my day so much better,I love it when they do this. It's JR's fault too,did he have to go after Sundin like that? And I was supposed to meet him next month so I can get a job with the team

****! **** ****!

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01-20-2004, 01:05 PM
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I'd be willing to bet the first offer was Sean Hill or Glen Wesley, and Bob balked.

As someone who's been a fan of both teams for years, I guess I see it as a wash. In the short-term Philly may get the edge in getting a tough gritty physical d-man who can skate and pass. But he does play wide-open and lends himself to injuries. Flyers fans will like to watch him, though, he has tools.

In the long-run though, the Canes may have the better of the deal. I am surprised that Clarke gave up on Williams so fast - he is just coming into his own (though the Canes track record in developing players like this is not good).

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01-20-2004, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Timing - at the time Markov was having back trouble. Also Antropov was coming off major knee surgery.

Trading for a 27 year old defenseman isn't exactly a "win-now" move. Markov will be around for a while and would be needed next year when Therien and Weinrich are not re-signed.

Desjardins, Johnsson, Ragnarsson, Markov, Pitkanen & Seidenberg/Vandermeer.

I don't love the trade but I certainly don't hate the deal either. Markov gives us a physical presence we could use on the blueline.

I completely agree. It's not a deal I like, but I don't hate it either. I was hoping for Denis Gauthier, but Markov will provide more, it was too bad we gave up Williams for him. This will probably one of the centers is moving to the Wing

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01-20-2004, 01:07 PM
  #22
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Williams was to be in the lineup Tuesday night, when the Hurricanes play Ottawa at home.
"I was definitely surprised," Williams told The Associated Press by phone. "I didn't expect anything, but I've got nothing but good things to say about my time in Philly. I haven't had the best season so far, but I thought I've played hard. With a couple of defensemen going down, they felt they needed to make a move for a defenseman, It's unfortunate, but it happens."

later,
dutch

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Old
01-20-2004, 01:19 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dutch
"I was definitely surprised," Williams told The Associated Press by phone. "I didn't expect anything, but I've got nothing but good things to say about my time in Philly. I haven't had the best season so far, but I thought I've played hard. With a couple of defensemen going down, they felt they needed to make a move for a defenseman, It's unfortunate, but it happens."
I have pity for him...

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01-20-2004, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teezax
Simply put, when the other GM"s out there know that we're in a desperate hunt for a defenceman, they ain't going to settle for a small package when they are aware Clarke was milked in his last desperate situation (OATES) Considering Markov is a great defenceman, I don't think this deal is as bad as people seem to make it. Sure we all loved Williams, his work ethic was uncanny, but this is a business fellas, and sometimes people need to be let go. I hope to God we don't revisit this trade in a year from today! Any word on Markov in the lineup tonight, my guess is he will be and I believe Williams will be in Carolina's lineup as well.
I do know that on Ottawa's radio station, I beleive Jim Rutherford, or someone from the Canes orga-ny-zation said "there would be new players" in the lineup for the Canes tonight, (I do not know this myself someone else said it and so far i didnt see anyone refute that). Not sure what that means for the Flyers, but the Canes are at home, and besides a game between Buffalo and Atlanta, the 2nd closest game was our game tonight. Once I saw that I had a hunch something might happen. Next time I refreshed tsn.ca, whatddya know, we made a trade.

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01-20-2004, 01:27 PM
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williams was one of my top 3 favorite players on the flyers this year
but he has definately been struggling and a phantoms defense was a scary thought. We'll see what happens. I'm more concerned with scoring a goalie

what do you guys think... Therien for Martin Brodeur ? I think it'll work

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