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Old
12-25-2007, 06:01 PM
  #1
txpd
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Kessel?

KPD in the Boston Globe talk about the Bruins in desperate straights for a defenseman.
http://www.boston.com/sports/hockey/...y_drop/?page=2

Kessel is falling out of favor already and....

Kessel was the No. 5 pick in the 2006 draft. Five years earlier, Stanislav Chistov was taken fifth overall by the Anaheim Ducks, who dealt him last year to the Bruins. He wasn't totally useless, but he wasn't much more. Today, Chistov is back in Russia, another once-prime prospect gone bust. Kessel has more to offer, because of his speed and a knack around the net during shootouts. But he must show the coaching staff that he's willing to be smarter and work harder, especially in the dirtier areas of the ice.

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12-25-2007, 06:22 PM
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Don't tease me by posting this in the Caps forum...

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12-25-2007, 06:32 PM
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As a Badger fan who watched his act at the U, I will pass.

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12-25-2007, 06:39 PM
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As a fan of speed and disgusting wrist shots, I'll buy.

Send Borky and Eminger and whatever it takes to sweeten the pot.

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12-25-2007, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by DynamoAO View Post
As a fan of speed and disgusting wrist shots, I'll buy.

Send Borky and Eminger and whatever it takes to sweeten the pot.
OK, I'll recant. Bourque and Emmy for Kessel, sure.....

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12-25-2007, 07:17 PM
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It would probably cost us something like Green plus a 2nd - Kessel may be out of favor but if they put him up for trade, there will be plenty of takers. I don't think he's what we need.

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12-25-2007, 08:20 PM
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I would love to get Kessel and line him up on Ovechkin's RW. Put a decent 2 way center between them and that will work just fine.

I would trade Nylander and our '08 1st for Kessel and a 2nd.

I would much rather have an young player like Kessel than a 1st rd pick that will take 2 years to even make the league. Unless its Stamkos, but i don't think we will get the 1st overall so i am not that worried about that.

And I would def take a 2nd to get rid of that Nylander contract. Although I don't think any team is going to take him.

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12-25-2007, 08:38 PM
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The Bruins need defence, not offence.

Pothier(when healthy) + 2nd round pick + Patrick Mcneil

For Kessel

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12-25-2007, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Backstrom #19 View Post
The Bruins need defence, not offence.

Pothier(when healthy) + 2nd round pick + Patrick Mcneil

For Kessel
lol, i am sure they would jump all over that. That is even worse than my pipedream of someone taking the Nylander contract from us.

This is still a top 5 pick talent we are talking about here. They are not going to give him away for scraps.

If they need defense, i can see them def wanting the Caps first as they are either going to get Stamkos (unlikely) or a hell of a D prospect as this draft class is stacked in that area.

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12-25-2007, 09:20 PM
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I think Kessel is way overrated. There was a knock on him when he was drafted that he was too one dimensional and a Zednik type of player streaking down and shooting type, not digging in the corners, and stay away from the rough stuff.

He has skill, but I do not think he is as spectacular as many say or adds that much to the game I have watched. Yeah he is good in shootouts, but I rather have someone good in regulation time.

Obviously I am no NHL scout, so it is just an opinion. If it came down to it I rather have a hard worker and more well rounded Bourque and keep our first round pick.

Who is taller by the way?

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12-25-2007, 09:22 PM
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I mention this because I knew there would be interest here, but Boston needs a defenseman. Preferably a veteran top 4. The best the Caps really can offer there is Pothier who is also injuried.

I suppose there is an outside shot they would take eminger. Very outside.
They would certainly take Green, but Green at present as a rarer asset than is Kessel and I would think not something the Caps would want to do.

I am not entirely sure they would even want Kessel. A center, yes? Caps have Nylander and Backstrom. Kessel would have to play RW.

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12-25-2007, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by dbui72 View Post
I think Kessel is way overrated. There was a knock on him when he was drafted that he was too one dimensional and a Zednik type of player streaking down and shooting type, not digging in the corners, and stay away from the rough stuff.

He has skill, but I do not think he is as spectacular as many say or adds that much to the game I have watched. Yeah he is good in shootouts, but I rather have someone good in regulation time.

Obviously I am no NHL scout, so it is just an opinion. If it came down to it I rather have a hard worker and more well rounded Bourque.

Who is taller by the way?
I actually agree with your assesment of Kessel, but don't sit here and talk about the negatives coming out of the draft about Kessel and then call Bourque hard working and well rounded. Because that is not what was being said about him when he was drafted.

But as I said I agree that Kessel is far from the perfect player, but who is. He is a guy who is going to need to play with a guy who is willing to do the work in the corners and create space for him. And you know what, Ovechkin is that guy.

As we all know, Ovy loves to get involved in the forecheck and go work down low and in the corners. And I really think Kessel is the type of player that could take advantage of the attention Ovechkin gets.

Whoever plays with Oveckin will always get at least a step more space than they wold playing with 99% of other players in this league. And Kessel would be able to take advantage of that.

He is far from a perfect player, but he has qualities I think would help this team. And like I said before, i would much rather see an NHL player added to the org than another 1st rd pick that is 2 to 3 years away.

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12-25-2007, 09:31 PM
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No I watched him in two games ala Center Ice, but by no means a definitive assessment on him. He struck me as an average player and shooting with his wrist shots from afar, unless someone does all the work for him to get closer to the net for a pass. Between AO and Kessel, who will do the passing to who? I think it will have the affect of a stellar tandem or flop.

He does not strike me as a player that is great or good, just above average.


Last edited by dbui72: 12-25-2007 at 09:37 PM.
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12-25-2007, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by dbui72 View Post
No I watched him in two games ala Center Ice, but by no means a definitive assessment on him. He struck me as an average player and shooting with his wrist shots from afar, unless someone does all the work for him to get closer to the net for a pass. Between AO and Kessel, who will do the passing to who? I think it will have the affect of a stellar tandem or flop.

He does not strike me as a player that is great or good, just above average.
People need to get over this idea of trying to find a player to pass AO the puck. AO will never look to use his linemates. He is a do it himself kind of guy.

He would much rather have people just get out of his way.

The reason why i think Kessel could do well with AO, is because AO gets so much attention. that leaves more open ice for others and Kessel has the speed and the shot to take advantage of that.

I don't think they would be good on the same line becaues they would work well together. I think they would do well because AO does what he wants anyway and Kessel has the talent to take advantage of the attention he gets.

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12-25-2007, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasper17 View Post
People need to get over this idea of trying to find a player to pass AO the puck. AO will never look to use his linemates. He is a do it himself kind of guy.

He would much rather have people just get out of his way.

The reason why i think Kessel could do well with AO, is because AO gets so much attention. that leaves more open ice for others and Kessel has the speed and the shot to take advantage of that.

I don't think they would be good on the same line becaues they would work well together. I think they would do well because AO does what he wants anyway and Kessel has the talent to take advantage of the attention he gets.

Then why don't we put Brashear and Steckel with Ovechkin. Steckel can win the face-offs, while Brashear goes into the corners and gets the puck for Ovechkin and then they get out of Ovechkin's way.

During the All-Star game last year Ovechkin was making an extra effort to use his teammates well, because he had good teammates. This year Ovechkin is trying to use his teammates more, but when he passses it to Pettinger or Kozlov they miss the puck. And when he gives it to Nylander, Nylander gives it to the other team.

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12-25-2007, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Backstrom #19 View Post
Then why don't we put Brashear and Steckel with Ovechkin. Steckel can win the face-offs, while Brashear goes into the corners and gets the puck for Ovechkin and then they get out of Ovechkin's way.

During the All-Star game last year Ovechkin was making an extra effort to use his teammates well, because he had good teammates. This year Ovechkin is trying to use his teammates more, but when he passses it to Pettinger or Kozlov they miss the puck. And when he gives it to Nylander, Nylander gives it to the other team.
You are actually accentuating his argument. Kessel would be a good player for Ovechkin.

I just don't want to pay a heavy price for him, which we would have too (and NOOOOOO, a package built around Pothier and draft picks won't get it done, LOL)

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12-25-2007, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Ridley Simon View Post
You are actually accentuating his argument. Kessel would be a good player for Ovechkin.

I just don't want to pay a heavy price for him, which we would have too (and NOOOOOO, a package built around Pothier and draft picks won't get it done, LOL)

I wasn't saying Kessel would be bad with Ovechkin. I was saying that Ovechkin uses his teammates more then he gets credit for.

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12-25-2007, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Backstrom #19 View Post
I wasn't saying Kessel would be bad with Ovechkin. I was saying that Ovechkin uses his teammates more then he gets credit for.

Agreed completely. Ovechkin does not = Jagr.

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12-25-2007, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Jasper17 View Post
People need to get over this idea of trying to find a player to pass AO the puck. AO will never look to use his linemates. He is a do it himself kind of guy.

He would much rather have people just get out of his way.

The reason why i think Kessel could do well with AO, is because AO gets so much attention. that leaves more open ice for others and Kessel has the speed and the shot to take advantage of that.

I don't think they would be good on the same line becaues they would work well together. I think they would do well because AO does what he wants anyway and Kessel has the talent to take advantage of the attention he gets.

Have you lost it? Ovechkin can and does work with his teammates. Give him someone like Datsyuk and he scores 60g IMO. What Ovechkin CAN do is generate offense all by his lonesome, even without a great playmaker. That does NOT mean he wouldn't benefit from an elite playmaker next to him.

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12-25-2007, 10:49 PM
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no...sorry. Disagree with the Datsyuk comment. Ovechkin has performed at about the same rate with Zubrus, Kozlov, Nylander and Backstrom as his center. I have to agree with Jasp to an extent. In fact I believe is currently on or near a 60 goal pace without a Datsyuk or Crosby feeding him the puck.

There is a reason why his pace remains remarkably the same no matter who he plays with. He does not use his linemates in a typical fashion. HE DOES NOT need someone to slip him sweet passes. Those sweet passes are often wasted on him. He is not that kind of player.

The difference between Ov and Semin in this regard is an example. Semin finds open space to catch and shoot. His three goals of recent have fallen into that catagory.
OV's goals are not often that way particularly at even strenth.

Those four centers above play different games and have all be successful at keeping OV's game going. They can get the puck thru center ice and into the zone. They can find him open at center ice and let him skate. They can create long possession time in the offensive zone that translates into more chances for OV. He also uses a guy like Clark who scores on his rebounds far more easily than a guy like Semin who skates ten feet further from the net than Clark does.

Ovechkin has led the NHL in shots on goal since he showed up. With or without top playmakers he gets his shots and they are the SAME SHOTS whether he is skating with Beech or with Nylander.

Remember that Peter Bondra and Adam Oates were just not a good mix at even strenth? Oates the consumet set up man couldn't set up Bondra because Bondra needed the puck to create his chances, not passes. Ovechkin is more like Bondra and less like Brett Hull.

I disagree with Jasp that OV does not use his linemates. He does. Just in a different way.

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12-25-2007, 10:53 PM
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no...sorry. Disagree with the Datsyuk comment. Ovechkin has performed at about the same rate with Zubrus, Kozlov, Nylander and Backstrom as his center. I have to agree with Jasp to an extent.
Because CLEARLY....Zubrus, Kozlov, Nylander and Backstrom are as good as Datsyuk.


You are on CRACK!


Zubrus, Kozlov, Nylander aren't 1/2 the player that Datsyuk is (ok 6/8 for Nyls) and Backstrom hasn't had enough time to develop or prove a thing.


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12-25-2007, 11:00 PM
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There is a reason why his pace remains remarkably the same no matter who he plays with. He does not use his linemates in a typical fashion. HE DOES NOT need someone to slip him sweet passes. Those sweet passes are often wasted on him. He is not that kind of player.

The difference between Ov and Semin in this regard is an example. Semin finds open space to catch and shoot. His three goals of recent have fallen into that catagory.
OV's goals are not often that way particularly at even strenth.

Those four centers above play different games and have all be successful at keeping OV's game going. They can get the puck thru center ice and into the zone. They can find him open at center ice and let him skate. They can create long possession time in the offensive zone that translates into more chances for OV. He also uses a guy like Clark who scores on his rebounds far more easily than a guy like Semin who skates ten feet further from the net than Clark does.

Ovechkin has led the NHL in shots on goal since he showed up. With or without top playmakers he gets his shots and they are the SAME SHOTS whether he is skating with Beech or with Nylander.

Remember that Peter Bondra and Adam Oates were just not a good mix at even strenth? Oates the consumet set up man couldn't set up Bondra because Bondra needed the puck to create his chances, not passes. Ovechkin is more like Bondra and less like Brett Hull.

I disagree with Jasp that OV does not use his linemates. He does. Just in a different way.
Actually he's on pace to score 56. With Datysuk I think he scores 60+ for years.

What you have highlighted about Ovechkin...IMO is a weakness in his game, not just "his style". Come playoff time, he's not going to be able to generate offense on his own all of the time. He needs to develop and learn to be more like Hull. He needs to learn to go to the high slot, take the punishment and score the dirty goals and the one timers when he's set up.

Ovy's one-timer is bush league IMO. If he had a decent 1 timer, he might have already scored 60 in a season. It's a huge hole in his offensive arsenal IMO.

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12-25-2007, 11:03 PM
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Actually he's on pace to score 56. With Datysuk I think he scores 60+ for years.

What you have highlighted about Ovechkin...IMO is a weakness in his game, not just "his style". Come playoff time, he's not going to be able to generate offense on his own all of the time. He needs to develop and learn to be more like Hull. He needs to learn to go to the high slot, take the punishment and score the dirty goals and the one timers when he's set up.

Ovy's one-timer is bush league IMO. If he had a decent 1 timer, he might have already scored 60 in a season. It's a huge hole in his offensive arsenal IMO.

I agree with that. That's why Semin needs to go to the point on the PP and Ovechkin in the slot, where he can use his strength to create room.

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12-25-2007, 11:08 PM
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I agree with that. That's why Semin needs to go to the point on the PP and Ovechkin in the slot, where he can use his strength to create room.
I hate Ovechkin on the point. We have one of the premier power forwards in the league and we like to pull him as far away from the goal as possible and still be in the offensive zone. Horrible strategy IMO.

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12-25-2007, 11:13 PM
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I hate Ovechkin on the point. We have one of the premier power forwards in the league and we like to pull him as far away from the goal as possible and still be in the offensive zone. Horrible strategy IMO.

I agree completly. Semin has a hell of a shot from the point, and Semin would be able to score goals on that back-door play the Caps love to do, where Green or Ovechkin sneak in to the post and Backstrom or Nylander makes the pass to them. Semin would bury all of those shots.

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