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Who is a good "in-league" scout?

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Old
12-26-2007, 01:23 PM
  #1
Pere Noel
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Who is a good "in-league" scout?

Anyone knows good in-league scouts?

By in-league, I mean an individual who scouts NHL/AHL teams for talent as opposed to draft scouts that focus on junior players.

I am not sure what the exact title is for those specific scouts.

But by looking at the overall trades Montreal made, it appears we don't fare very well.

Anyone has knowledge of some scouts that gave great recommendations to their respective GMs?

PS: We are hiring

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12-26-2007, 01:26 PM
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Chiyo
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it's called "Pro Scout"
and Bob has his friend Pierre Gauthier already in place
Not our strongest department if you ask me..

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12-26-2007, 01:33 PM
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Pere Noel
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Originally Posted by Carey Sweets View Post
it's called "Pro Scout"
and Bob has his friend Pierre Gauthier already in place
Not our strongest department if you ask me..
Yes indeed.

It's not with credentials like Selanne for Shields and Friesen that I will get impressed.

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12-26-2007, 01:40 PM
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Apparently Brad Smith from the Avalanche is one of them...

http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0....html#abstract
The guy, however, who paved the way for this All-Star group to succeed and capture two Stanley Cups in six seasons is Brad Smith. Yes, "Motor City Smitty," the colorful grinder who spent parts of nine years in the NHL and never scored more than seven goals in a season. What makes Smith, one of 24 Smiths who have played in the modern-day NHL, stand out is his work as a pro scout for the Avalanche.

"When you compile a list of the top pro scouts in the game today, Brad would be right there at the top," says Canucks coach Marc Crawford, who was the Avalanche's coach when it won the 1996 Stanley Cup. "Brad has a great perspective of the game. He is a former coach, so I believe that helps because he scouts the game with the same perspective as a coach. When I worked with him, his reports were A-1."

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12-26-2007, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Sweets View Post
it's called "Pro Scout"
and Bob has his friend Pierre Gauthier already in place
Not our strongest department if you ask me..
This is where I also believe that the Habs have a serious organizational weakness. They are unable to identify solid NHLers or AHLers that can be a steady and dependable contributor to the team.

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12-26-2007, 02:06 PM
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waffledave
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It's Pierre Gauthier for the Habs, and he stinks.

Samsonov, Smolinski...Gah!!!!

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12-26-2007, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
It's Pierre Gauthier for the Habs, and he stinks.

Samsonov, Smolinski...Gah!!!!
and how do you know that Gauthier recommanded one of these players to Gainey ? Being a pro-scout doesn't mean that you are the one who takes decision ; Samsonov or Smolinski are in that league for a long time , so they were well know by Gainey .

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12-26-2007, 02:20 PM
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waffledave
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Originally Posted by #ZAMBONI# View Post
and how do you know that Gauthier recommanded one of these players to Gainey ? Being a pro-scout doesn't mean that you are the one who takes decision ; Samsonov or Smolinski are in that league for a long time , so they were well know by Gainey .
Because he's the pro-scout, it's his responsibility. It was also discussed on the Team 990 by Pierre McGuire and others.

edit: But I love how you jump to the defence of the local guy and the opportunity to bash Gainey. It's classic #ZAMBONI#

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12-26-2007, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
Because he's the pro-scout, it's his responsibility. It was also discussed on the Team 990 by Pierre McGuire and others.

edit: But I love how you jump to the defence of the local guy and the opportunity to bash Gainey. It's classic #ZAMBONI#
The final decision still belongs to Gainey. Gauthier is just an advisor, and while I still think he sucks (based on his career) it's Gainey that signs the bills. I wouldn't put all the blame on Gauthier for the Samsonovs of this world. If a GM can't find the time to watch or scout the players himself and make a decision based on his judgement, then what is he good for?

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12-26-2007, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Ledevin View Post
The final decision still belongs to Gainey. Gauthier is just an advisor, and while I still think he sucks (based on his career) it's Gainey that signs the bills. I wouldn't put all the blame on Gauthier for the Samsonovs of this world. If a GM can't find the time to watch or scout the players himself and make a decision based on his judgement, then what is he good for?
Exactly, which is why Gainey deserves praise for all the good drafting as of late as well.


Last edited by waffledave: 12-26-2007 at 03:14 PM.
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Old
12-26-2007, 03:33 PM
  #11
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Gauthier is the architect of the Anahiem Ducks and the Ottawa Senators - you may remember those two teams since they faced off in the Stanley Cup last year. If you're bashing the Ghost Gauthier, you don't know hockey.

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12-26-2007, 04:02 PM
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Andy Murray is one of the best ones. Currently the Head Coach of the Blues he was with the Habs last year as a scout and when he left in December the team started slumping. Probably one of the best hockey minds in the world and I would love to see him coach Canada in 2010.

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12-26-2007, 04:04 PM
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Sorry you meant as in trades. Murray was a team scout to create reports for upcoming opponents.

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12-26-2007, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Andy Murray is one of the best ones. Currently the Head Coach of the Blues he was with the Habs last year as a scout and when he left in December the team started slumping. Probably one of the best hockey minds in the world and I would love to see him coach Canada in 2010.
Andy Murray was with the Habs and we let him go??? ugh...

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12-26-2007, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by LeafRefereeeeeees View Post
Andy Murray was with the Habs and we let him go??? ugh...
Well he didn't get fired or anything, he was offered a Head Coaching position from a team. Way better than scouting.

Granted I wish he were our coach instead.

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12-26-2007, 04:10 PM
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Well he didn't get fired or anything, he was offered a Head Coaching position from a team. Way better than scouting.

Granted I wish he were our coach instead.
No kidding. I'm angry now.

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Old
12-26-2007, 04:29 PM
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Pere Noel
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Sorry you meant as in trades. Murray was a team scout to create reports for upcoming opponents.
Yes, I meant as in trades... I am looking for a guy who can gives Gainey good reports on guys playing in the NHL or young guys in the AHL.

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12-26-2007, 05:32 PM
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For the record, Gainey offered Murray a full time job but he was still recovering from losing his job with LA. He was free-lancing as a scout and was thinking of starting a hockey consulting firm when he was offered the job in St. Louis.

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12-26-2007, 05:39 PM
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waffledave
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Originally Posted by Altoid View Post
Gauthier is the architect of the Anahiem Ducks and the Ottawa Senators - you may remember those two teams since they faced off in the Stanley Cup last year. If you're bashing the Ghost Gauthier, you don't know hockey.
That's wonderful for him but his scouting has been questionable at best with us.

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12-26-2007, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
That's wonderful for him but his scouting has been questionable at best with us.
Actually, its good for us, this guy knows hockey. We're having a hard time on the ice but Gainey has built a solid front office and we're in a much better position today than when he was hired. We're developing talent house, we've gotten rid of lots of dead weight. You can only blame so much on Gainey and his mngt team in terms of not signing a free agentin the off season, we've all read the stories about the lucrative offers turned down by UFAs. Same goes for not being able to pull off the block buster trade, how many teams have made significant trades mid season since the lock-out? There aren't many. Gauthier has been a GM twice and asst GM a few times also - never been fired - he's respected, he's cautious, he's built two good franchises and pulled off some good trades, I'm glad he's on our side.

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12-26-2007, 06:11 PM
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Pere Noel
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Actually, its good for us, this guy knows hockey. We're having a hard time on the ice but Gainey has built a solid front office and we're in a much better position today than when he was hired. We're developing talent house, we've gotten rid of lots of dead weight. You can only blame so much on Gainey and his mngt team in terms of not signing a free agentin the off season, we've all read the stories about the lucrative offers turned down by UFAs. Same goes for not being able to pull off the block buster trade, how many teams have made significant trades mid season since the lock-out? There aren't many. Gauthier has been a GM twice and asst GM a few times also - never been fired - he's respected, he's cautious, he's built two good franchises and pulled off some good trades, I'm glad he's on our side.
I like Gainey's work pretty much on all fronts... more so when you consider the rough personal time he had to go through.

I just see an area of significant improvement, and it is in his in-league trading. I am hoping that we find someone that can assist him better on that front.

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Old
12-27-2007, 06:54 AM
  #22
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Gauthier is the architect of the Anahiem Ducks and the Ottawa Senators - you may remember those two teams since they faced off in the Stanley Cup last year. If you're bashing the Ghost Gauthier, you don't know hockey.
Sorry but you're wrong on both counts. The architect of the Ducks is the present GM of the Senators, was their coach last year. I forget his name.

And when Gauthier was in Ottawa he did didley squat. He was responsible for drafting Daigle. If you remember they were a soft team that kept getting knocked off in the first round of the playoffs.

McGuire and a few others have questioned Montreal's pro scouting. That's Gauthier's department. His record in Montreal has been below average and I'm being polite.

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12-27-2007, 07:25 AM
  #23
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And I have a lot of things to say about Gauthier's performance(Pierre Pagé assistant, head scout) in Quebec city as well. Not an elite scout my any stretch of the imagination.

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12-27-2007, 07:51 AM
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IMO our drafting has been generally good whereas our pro transactions have been sub-par... Who bears the ultimate responsibility for drafting and pro transactions? Gainey. What is the influence of Gainey's underlings Timmins and Gauthier? Is Gainey getting great advice from both departments and just making poor decisions when it comes to pro scouting? Why is Gainey gunshy when it comes to making trades? I know I would be in the circumstances.

Is the Canadiens website accurate? We have about a dozen amateur scouts and only 2 full-time pro-scouts, Gordie Roberts and Doug Gibson? Is that enough?


Last edited by Erik Estrada: 12-27-2007 at 08:08 AM.
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Old
12-27-2007, 08:08 AM
  #25
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Originally Posted by onice View Post
Sorry but you're wrong on both counts. The architect of the Ducks is the present GM of the Senators, was their coach last year. I forget his name.

And when Gauthier was in Ottawa he did didley squat. He was responsible for drafting Daigle. If you remember they were a soft team that kept getting knocked off in the first round of the playoffs.

McGuire and a few others have questioned Montreal's pro scouting. That's Gauthier's department. His record in Montreal has been below average and I'm being polite.
Check the books my friend, Randy Sexton was the Ottawa GM that drafted Daigle and turned the franchise around, he hired Jacques Martin and traded for Redden. Redden stinks now but he was an All Star defenceman and Olympian at one time. Also, Pierre Gauthier was asst GM in Anaheim from 92 to 95 and was adamant about drafting Paul Kariya with the 4th overall pick, an NCAA college player out of Maine was thought to be a bad move when GMs didn't use first round picks to select NCAA players, particularly from schools that didn't have big hockey programs. The current Ottawa GM is Bryan Murray - I'm not taking anything away from him, he did a good job but the mold was set by Gauthier.

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