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*** happened to Hockey? Colton Orr hit!

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Old
12-27-2007, 03:50 PM
  #76
Dr. Ogrodnick
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Originally Posted by nyr7andcounting View Post
Speaking of officiating, did anyone notice that the linesman called a hand pass on Carolina when they were in their own zone? Which caused a faceoff instead of the Canes having a breakout, and seconds after Jagr scored the 4th goal. Nice job NHL.
That play made it clear to me that these particular refs didn't understand the rules. I stopped blaming them at that point and started blaming the NHL for the officiating abomination.

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12-27-2007, 04:05 PM
  #77
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That was a dirty hit, the elbow was definately up. Even if it wasn't intentional, a good portion of Orr's elbow got Cullen in the face. A very odd hit though, never seen anything like it.

Give Orr a 5 game suspension and let it be a "warning".

But, this is hockey and crap happens.

How is that pussification of the NHL? I happen to agree with you, but not on this case. This kinda reminds me of what Pronger did to McAmmond last year. Do you honestly want the league modified to stoop down to Hollweg's level? A guy that can't play hockey for his life yet resorts to his dirty checking from behind to kill people? Then on top of that he lets Colton Orr clean up the mess he creates......

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12-27-2007, 04:10 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by JerseyRangers View Post
Going back to Stevens, do you really think that Lindros would have been hit like that when Shultz was around? I doubt it cause someone would have run him out of the building!
Stevens would have given the same hit if Shultz, Tiger Williams and Oggie Olgethorpe were all on the ice at the same time.

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12-27-2007, 04:11 PM
  #79
Dr. Ogrodnick
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Originally Posted by LongIslandHockey36 View Post
That was a dirty hit, the elbow was definately up. Even if it wasn't intentional, a good portion of Orr's elbow got Cullen in the face. A very odd hit though, never seen anything like it.

Give Orr a 5 game suspension and let it be a "warning".

But, this is hockey and crap happens.

How is that pussification of the NHL? I happen to agree with you, but not on this case. This kinda reminds me of what Pronger did to McAmmond last year. Do you honestly want the league modified to stoop down to Hollweg's level? A guy that can't play hockey for his life yet resorts to his dirty checking from behind to kill people? Then on top of that he lets Colton Orr clean up the mess he creates......
You should try watching the play before guessing what happened. At no point does Orr's elbow contact Cullen's head. The only contact to Cullen's head was by Orr's head, which is lible to happen in a collision like that. Unfortunate? Yes. Illegal? No.

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12-27-2007, 04:11 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by LongIslandHockey36 View Post
That was a dirty hit, the elbow was definately up. Even if it wasn't intentional, a good portion of Orr's elbow got Cullen in the face. A very odd hit though, never seen anything like it.

Give Orr a 5 game suspension and let it be a "warning".

But, this is hockey and crap happens.

How is that pussification of the NHL? I happen to agree with you, but not on this case. This kinda reminds me of what Pronger did to McAmmond last year. Do you honestly want the league modified to stoop down to Hollweg's level? A guy that can't play hockey for his life yet resorts to his dirty checking from behind to kill people? Then on top of that he lets Colton Orr clean up the mess he creates......
Sorry, but I have to say you're incorrect. Orr's elbows didn't touch Cullen above the chest. Watch the replays from more than one angle. Cullen's face and Orr's side of the face / helmet are what collided.

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12-27-2007, 04:11 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by LongIslandHockey36 View Post
Give Orr a 5 game suspension and let it be a "warning".
If Orr gets 5, then Burns should get 10.

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12-27-2007, 04:14 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Dr. Ogrodnick View Post
That play made it clear to me that these particular refs didn't understand the rules. I stopped blaming them at that point and started blaming the NHL for the officiating abomination.
The refs you are talking about have officiated over 900 games. I think they know the rules.

I think their discretion is the problem.

http://www.nhlofficials.com/member_listing.asp

I hate Refs - i feel like they are in this conspiracy laden clan that no one is allowed to breach, like they are above everyone. The Pigs of the NHL.

Go onto their pompous site and try and cut and paste a link directly to a ref bio page. You cant because it says "This website content is copyrighted." - Like they are some top secret ****ing organization.


**** off.

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12-27-2007, 04:14 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
If Orr gets 5, then Burns should get 10.
Yep, where was all the screaming when Burns planted his elbow in Prucha's face. Oh, wait there was no blood, no loss of consciousness or any headlines. Guess it doesn't matter!

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12-27-2007, 04:18 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by LongIslandHockey36 View Post
That was a dirty hit, the elbow was definately up. Even if it wasn't intentional, a good portion of Orr's elbow got Cullen in the face. A very odd hit though, never seen anything like it.

Give Orr a 5 game suspension and let it be a "warning".

But, this is hockey and crap happens.

How is that pussification of the NHL? I happen to agree with you, but not on this case. This kinda reminds me of what Pronger did to McAmmond last year. Do you honestly want the league modified to stoop down to Hollweg's level? A guy that can't play hockey for his life yet resorts to his dirty checking from behind to kill people? Then on top of that he lets Colton Orr clean up the mess he creates......
the elbow was definitely up? Do you even know what an elbow is? Never seen anything like it? How many games have you seen in your life, 12? Crap happens? Sorry but you have no idea what you are talking about.

A 5-game suspension as a warning, lol- Ok... I'm sure that'll deter players from open ice hitting.

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12-27-2007, 04:18 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
Stevens would have given the same hit if Shultz, Tiger Williams and Oggie Olgethorpe were all on the ice at the same time.
Mostly agree especially considering that Stevens was a very tough SOB (especially in his younger days when he was more than willing to fight). I do think that even a guy as tough as Stevens would have been more judicious with his hits if he had to worry about having to fight everytime he threw a big hit. Heck, if Stevens had done that to say Billy Barber then the whole Flyers team would have jumped him (not to mention the stickwork that he'd receive courtesy of that salt of the earth, Booby Clarke)!

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Old
12-27-2007, 04:20 PM
  #86
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Im sorry about that, but that just changed my whole perspective.... thats a very BAD BAD call.

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Old
12-27-2007, 04:21 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by LongIslandHockey36 View Post
That was a dirty hit, the elbow was definately up. Even if it wasn't intentional, a good portion of Orr's elbow got Cullen in the face. A very odd hit though, never seen anything like it.

Give Orr a 5 game suspension and let it be a "warning".

But, this is hockey and crap happens.

How is that pussification of the NHL? I happen to agree with you, but not on this case. This kinda reminds me of what Pronger did to McAmmond last year. Do you honestly want the league modified to stoop down to Hollweg's level? A guy that can't play hockey for his life yet resorts to his dirty checking from behind to kill people? Then on top of that he lets Colton Orr clean up the mess he creates......
Let me guess, the 36 stands for your IQ??? If you haven't seen the video don't talk. If you've seen it....... go see your optometrist. No one else saw "a good portion of Orr's elbow" going anywhere. Go crawl back in your little hole!

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Old
12-27-2007, 04:22 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by LongIslandHockey36 View Post
Im sorry about that, but that just changed my whole perspective.... thats a very BAD BAD call.
Eeeeeh....

you can't do that!

What happened in the last 10 minutes?


Let me guess. You actually WATCHED the hit?

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Old
12-27-2007, 04:27 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Eeeeeh....

you can't do that!

What happened in the last 10 minutes?


Let me guess. You actually WATCHED the hit?
Wow imagine that, actually watching footage before you speak. Novel concept!! If only all Isles fans tried that, this would be a much better place.

BTW how where the holidays, HBNYC? Hope they where good. Last Christmas before the big day, right? Good luck and have a Happy New Year.

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Old
12-27-2007, 05:10 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by LongIslandHockey36 View Post
Give Orr a 5 game suspension and let it be a "warning".
he should get his game misconduct rescinded

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Old
12-27-2007, 06:54 PM
  #91
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I have never seen anyone complain as much as the Canes Fans. I mean we have DEVILS/ISLES fans defending the rangers. WTF?
I have been clicking "block user" alot today

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12-27-2007, 07:10 PM
  #92
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clean...

Clean hit, bad call...

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12-27-2007, 09:14 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
In my NHL, you do not have to alert the opposing player and adjust your trajectory path to ensure that he knows you are coming.

Maybe that's some Nuuuu NHL rule or some figment of the imagination of some Nuuu NHL fan? As if a blind-side hit is "less manly"?

As long as you do not take too many strides or hit too long after the puck is released or go in high with your stick (or hit from behind), you can put the body to a guy - even if he does not see you.

In fact, any player worth a nickle will not pass up the opportunity.

***

This is painful.
Trottier, one of your standard posting responses to those who do not agree with your views on hockey violence/fighting/etc. is to suggest that only those who are new to hockey would hold views contrary to your own.

I am just interested ... how long have you followed hockey?

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Old
12-27-2007, 10:21 PM
  #94
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Shouldnt skate with your head down with the puck, especially across the middle. Thats one of the first things they teach you when you start out - FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY. Other players around you shouldnt be concerned with your safety just their own.
.
Agreed that keeping your head up is the cardinal rule...everyone knows this. Cullen dropped his at the wrong time. Big Mistake, a momentary lapse, by a very skilled player.

Agreed that Orr's hit was a legal. And spectacular!

Was listening to Glen Wesley interview on radio today, and when asked, he termed Orr's hit "Bush League". He didn't say it was illegal, but his view is at odds with your opinion that the players only think, or should think, about their own safety alone. He commented on the fact that in recent years players in the League are less and less concerned for others' safety when they see a fellow player in a vulnerable position, like the kind of head-down position Orr obviously saw Cullen had momentarily put himself in.

I'll take Wesley's word for it. He's played almost 20 seasons and 1400+ NHL games, and not a whiner. His opinion wasn't given as a rant, just matter-of-fact when questioned and disappointment that new conditions in the NHL contribute to this lessening of respect. He was giving Orr the benefit of the doubt of having enough skill to see Cullen's mistake and still drop him, but without trying to knock him into next season with an injury. Hockey is partly a game of attrition-through-injury because it's a fast collision sport anyway. Wesley was saying at the professional level there is...or used to be... a responsibility to the other players around you.

I agree with a previous poster, that instead of trying to rule-book every situation or hit on the ice, players should be allowed to police themselves and teams given the roster room to aquire those to do the policing. That would raise the respect levels again.

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12-27-2007, 10:30 PM
  #95
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I'm happy Cullen got rocked, couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

And I mean that, he's a nice guy, liked by all his teammates while he was on the team. But the fact of the matter is that he's no longer on this team and since that's the case, I'm happy he was laying on the ice and not Orr.

I wouldn't care if it was Brian Leetch that got rocked like that, the moment he stopes wearing a Rangers jersey and has another teams jersey on, during the game, he's an opposing player that needs to get hit hard and often and yes, a little dirty.

Do I wish him harm? Absolutely.

The kind that prevents players from continuing on the next night? No, just the kind that prevents him from coming back during the current game.

call me what you will, but any player that is not wearing a Rangers Jersey today needs to be feeling some pain.

I'm glad you don't represent the opinion of most Rangers fans. Sure, it's known by now I think y'all are curiously blinded by some temporary, Avery-puppy-love insanity, but I don't believe for a moment they're so blind as to agree with you on something this classless.


Last edited by NorthStar4Canes: 12-27-2007 at 10:37 PM.
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12-27-2007, 10:36 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by NorthStar4Canes View Post
Agreed that keeping your head up is the cardinal rule...everyone knows this. Cullen dropped his at the wrong time. Big Mistake, a momentary lapse, by a very skilled player.

Agreed that Orr's hit was a legal. And spectacular!

Was listening to Glen Wesley interview on radio today, and when asked, he termed Orr's hit "Bush League". He didn't say it was illegal, but his view is at odds with your opinion that the players only think, or should think, about their own safety alone. He commented on the fact that in recent years players in the League are less and less concerned for others' safety when they see a fellow player in a vulnerable position, like the kind of head-down position Orr obviously saw Cullen had momentarily put himself in.

I'll take Wesley's word for it. He's played almost 20 seasons and 1400+ NHL games, and not a whiner. His opinion wasn't given as a rant, just matter-of-fact when questioned and disappointment that new conditions in the NHL contribute to this lessening of respect. He was giving Orr the benefit of the doubt of having enough skill to see Cullen's mistake and still drop him, but without trying to knock him into next season with an injury. Hockey is partly a game of attrition-through-injury because it's a fast collision sport anyway. Wesley was saying at the professional level there is...or used to be... a responsibility to the other players around you.

I agree with a previous poster, that instead of trying to rule-book every situation or hit on the ice, players should be allowed to police themselves and teams given the roster room to aquire those to do the policing. That would raise the respect levels again.
Didn't that happen though? Commodore 64 challenged Orr and they fought. Isn't that a perfect example of the players policing themselves. I like Matt Cullen I thought he played well for the Rangers last year and I was upset when they traded him. However, he made a mistake dropping his head while coming across the ice and Orr knocked him into next week. What is Orr supposed to do? Yell out at the last second " hey i am gonna hit you, pick up your head". I don't mean to sound insensative to Cullen and I am glad he didn't get seriously hurt but I think Orr did everything he was supposed to do. He made an opposing player pay for dropping his head with a huge open ice hit, then when challenged he answered the bell and fought.

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12-27-2007, 10:41 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by NorthStar4Canes View Post
Agreed that keeping your head up is the cardinal rule...everyone knows this. Cullen dropped his at the wrong time. Big Mistake, a momentary lapse, by a very skilled player.

Agreed that Orr's hit was a legal. And spectacular!

Was listening to Glen Wesley interview on radio today, and when asked, he termed Orr's hit "Bush League". He didn't say it was illegal, but his view is at odds with your opinion that the players only think, or should think, about their own safety alone. He commented on the fact that in recent years players in the League are less and less concerned for others' safety when they see a fellow player in a vulnerable position, like the kind of head-down position Orr obviously saw Cullen had momentarily put himself in.

I'll take Wesley's word for it. He's played almost 20 seasons and 1400+ NHL games, and not a whiner. His opinion wasn't given as a rant, just matter-of-fact when questioned and disappointment that new conditions in the NHL contribute to this lessening of respect. He was giving Orr the benefit of the doubt of having enough skill to see Cullen's mistake and still drop him, but without trying to knock him into next season with an injury. Hockey is partly a game of attrition-through-injury because it's a fast collision sport anyway. Wesley was saying at the professional level there is...or used to be... a responsibility to the other players around you.

I agree with a previous poster, that instead of trying to rule-book every situation or hit on the ice, players should be allowed to police themselves and teams given the roster room to aquire those to do the policing. That would raise the respect levels again.

Obviously. He's talking about a teammate. If someone on the Canes laid someone on the Rangers out like that I guarantee you his opinion would be different. He'd say something like, "Well, it's unfortunate but it's hockey and I know my teammate wasn't trying to hurt anyone." It's all about perspective. I could give a crap what Glen Wesley has to say. Cullen got rocked. Keep your head up. Or else that'll happen everytime Matt. And Orr...if you see twenty more players this year skate into the zone with their head down, you do the exact same thing. Worrying about other players in the league? Give me a break. Play within the rules. And help your team win. Orr did both of those things.

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12-27-2007, 11:21 PM
  #98
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Trottier, one of your standard posting responses to those who do not agree with your views on hockey violence/fighting/etc. is to suggest that only those who are new to hockey would hold views contrary to your own.

I am just interested ... how long have you followed hockey?
Since 1975. Prior to that, just foggy adolescent visions of Bobby Orr ripping up the NHL.

Your point is fair, I do tend to generalize that newer fans to the sport are more likely to be taken aback by the horrrrrrrrible violence that comes with the game. And, they tend to knee-jerk react to anything physical by demanding "suspension!" and branding said acts "dirrrrrty".

But such mindset is not limited to the Nuuu NHL types, no doubt.

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12-27-2007, 11:34 PM
  #99
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Since 1975. Prior to that, just foggy adolescent visions of Bobby Orr ripping up the NHL.

Your point is fair, I do tend to generalize that newer fans to the sport are more likely to be taken aback by the horrrrrrrrible violence that comes with the game. And, they tend to knee-jerk react to anything physical by demanding "suspension!" and branding said acts "dirrrrrty".

But such mindset is not limited to the Nuuu NHL types, no doubt.
Noooooob... Gotcha by 2 years rookie.........

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12-28-2007, 01:38 AM
  #100
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Didn't that happen though? Commodore 64 challenged Orr and they fought. Isn't that a perfect example of the players policing themselves. I like Matt Cullen I thought he played well for the Rangers last year and I was upset when they traded him. However, he made a mistake dropping his head while coming across the ice and Orr knocked him into next week. What is Orr supposed to do? Yell out at the last second " hey i am gonna hit you, pick up your head". I don't mean to sound insensative to Cullen and I am glad he didn't get seriously hurt but I think Orr did everything he was supposed to do. He made an opposing player pay for dropping his head with a huge open ice hit, then when challenged he answered the bell and fought.
Well first, Commodore is no enforcer or team protection, so no it's not a perfect example. Enforcers have pretty much disappeared due to the rule and rostering changes forced on them. I'm sure all teams would love to have at least one player dedicated to that.

And what could Orr have done? Adjust. That's what professionals who make their money living on skates with their ability can do. Bush Leaguers probably can't, or won't because they still think they have something to prove. Wesley's point was lost on you I guess. Making someone pay for dropping their head is the Bush League attitude Wesley was talking about. Dropping your head makes you vulnerable, but making that mistake doesn't automatically mean the other guy has to use that opening to maximum effect if he sees it. Certainly you make someone pay for chippy play, cheap shots, running your goalie etc. Orr is a stand-up enforcer which even an old-time non-fighter like Wesley respects, but it sounded like he was seriously disappointed that he had a go at Cullen while seeing him in that positon, instead of adjusting and merely just dumping him.

Wesley thinks Orr could have done something different that players already do, or have done. You think there's nothing Orr could have done and did everything right. Who am I to believe....a 20 year NHL veteran?...or you.

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