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Old
12-28-2007, 08:00 PM
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Blues AHL/ECHL prospects update

The Blues have a number of rookies playing in their minor league system.

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Old
12-28-2007, 09:01 PM
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BluesDarb
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Has Ian Cole really shot that high up our prospect charts?

How'd he surpass so many others so quickly(Wags, Polak, Woywitka)?

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12-29-2007, 10:19 AM
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Wagners getting the short end of the stick in the rankings because he was never drafted, no other Dman on that list has spent more time with the Blues this year(save EJ).

Cole is ranked higher as a prospect because he hasn't played in the NHL or AHL AND come up short of expectations as Polak and Woywitka have. Essentially Woy and Pol have had their shots and failed to crack the roster, Cole hasn't had his shot so he automatically gets a leg up on both.

Lets not forget that these things are subjective and thusly based upon some personal preference.

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12-29-2007, 10:32 AM
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If Polak has come up short of expectations, someone needs to let the Blues know.

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12-29-2007, 11:10 AM
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WalterSobchak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Blues View Post
If Polak has come up short of expectations, someone needs to let the Blues know.
he's been in the AHL all season, Wagner hasn't. I'd say somewhere, someone's expectations haven't been met. Note, I am not calling him done as a prospect, IB...I am simply stating that if he was meeting expectations it would be him who has been called up and not Wagner.

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12-29-2007, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZaphodBeeblebrox View Post
he's been in the AHL all season, Wagner hasn't. I'd say somewhere, someone's expectations haven't been met. Note, I am not calling him done as a prospect, IB...I am simply stating that if he was meeting expectations it would be him who has been called up and not Wagner.

Or maybe they need a puck mover like Wagner and have enough stay at home guys like Polak right now.

Disagree with your analysis.

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12-29-2007, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZaphodBeeblebrox View Post
he's been in the AHL all season, Wagner hasn't. I'd say somewhere, someone's expectations haven't been met. Note, I am not calling him done as a prospect, IB...I am simply stating that if he was meeting expectations it would be him who has been called up and not Wagner.
I'll have to agree with exec. Polak and Wags are two totally different types of d-men.
I think Wags getting the nod is based on his offensive flair. Meanwhile, Mr. Olympus--er, Polak--is turning into a monster. (the kind of monster we like)

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12-29-2007, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by execwrite View Post
Or maybe they need a puck mover like Wagner and have enough stay at home guys like Polak right now.

Disagree with your analysis.
I agree they are different styles of players, but it is not as if our "SAD" is exactly getting the job done. It would be argued that Jax is a "SAD" and a good one when he is on his game.

So why was Wagner brought up to take his spot and not Polak? Well besides the ankle injury, of course.

We can agree to disagree, and I am not saying Polak doesn't have a bright future...this was more in regards to Ian Cole's placement ahead of Polak and Woywitka according to HF, not a comparison with Wagner.

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12-29-2007, 01:20 PM
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Celtic Note
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I thought it was the intention of the staff to let Polak get some top minutes in Peoria this year, because they thought it was best for his development. Can't remember where I read that though, because it was at the beginning of the year. Either way, I think Polak will be on the team as soon as we get rid of some of the surplus veterans. Hopefullt that comes next year (I hope Backman is one of them even though I have been a supporter of his for a while). Hell, I think Walker should be playing a head of some of our vets, but I guess that is a little off subject.
Anyway, the one complaint I have is that Wagner is not on the list and Kana is. I know Kana has the potential, but over the past two years I have grown skeptical that he will ever reach it. Wagner, on the other hand, could and possibly will become a top 4 d-man if he continues to progress as well as he has.

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12-29-2007, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Zundo View Post
I thought it was the intention of the staff to let Polak get some top minutes in Peoria this year, because they thought it was best for his development. Can't remember where I read that though, because it was at the beginning of the year. Either way, I think Polak will be on the team as soon as we get rid of some of the surplus veterans. Hopefullt that comes next year (I hope Backman is one of them even though I have been a supporter of his for a while). Hell, I think Walker should be playing a head of some of our vets, but I guess that is a little off subject.
Anyway, the one complaint I have is that Wagner is not on the list and Kana is. I know Kana has the potential, but over the past two years I have grown skeptical that he will ever reach it. Wagner, on the other hand, could and possibly will become a top 4 d-man if he continues to progress as well as he has.
I am afraid that I need to concede my over reliance on Backman's potential becoming realized this season. He has looked pretty bad at times. (A lot of our d-men have looked bad, but we also need to look at it relatively). He just seems like a big, dumb kid sometimes.

Relative to EJ and Wagner, Backman has played poorly. Bax has a few seasons under his belt now. And this season is just about half way over. He'll have to improve significantly for the Blues to keep him. Or maybe he will increase his trade value. (i'll hope for the latter).

Kana, Kana, Kana. What will we do with you?
I know you're young, but what the hell dude?

Is North America too much for you? I know being in Alaska must have sucked, but you had a golden opportunity to be called up by the Blues later in the season. Instead you ****ed it up. Oh well! I hope you work out your personal problems. Come back when you are ready.

Thank You,

Blues' Fans

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Old
12-29-2007, 11:48 PM
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Why do so many Blues fans think playing in Alaska sucks?

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12-30-2007, 12:29 AM
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WalterSobchak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Rister View Post
Why do so many Blues fans think playing in Alaska sucks?
Its not playing in Orange County? Its frigging cold (all year round?) and I don't know the ECHL lay out but I gotta imagine the road trips are murder.

it has alot more to do with the Blues prospects than the fans but that seems to be the general assumption.

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12-30-2007, 02:42 AM
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Originally Posted by ZaphodBeeblebrox View Post
Its not playing in Orange County? Its frigging cold (all year round?) and I don't know the ECHL lay out but I gotta imagine the road trips are murder.
Showing your ignorance there, my friend.

Our winters can be cold, sure. Our summers, though... high 70's/low 80's are uncommon. Not a heat wave, but certainly not cold. As for the road trips... they're not so bad. The majority of their road games are played on the West Coast... maybe one short swing East each season. They fly almost everywhere, only busing it when on California roadies, for the most part.

Quote:
it has alot more to do with the Blues prospects than the fans but that seems to be the general assumption.
Exactly. the prima-dona punks like Zakharov and Kana are the exception, not the rule. Most players love playing here. The "general assumptions" are made by the fans in StL/Peoria... normally based on stereotypical b.s. Take a look at the players who have run home from AK. Both Zakharov and Kana were underperforming at the lowest developmental level of the Blues system. Their running home has everything to do with their failure and likely nothing to do with being in Alaska. Sure, guys want to be playing in the AHL or NHL, but being sent to Alaska is not like being sent to Siberia.

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12-30-2007, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Blues
If Polak has come up short of expectations, someone needs to let the Blues know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZaphodBeeblebrox
he's been in the AHL all season, Wagner hasn't. I'd say somewhere, someone's expectations haven't been met. Note, I am not calling him done as a prospect, IB...I am simply stating that if he was meeting expectations it would be him who has been called up and not Wagner.
Uh, Zaph... you did know that Polak has a broken ankle and will be out until probably February, right...

P_B


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12-30-2007, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
Uh, Zaph... you did know that Polak has a broken ankle and will be out until probably February, right...

P_B

I was just going to post the same thing. It's been pretty well known that Polak is out up to 8 weeks with a broken ankle. Perhaps that could be the reason, lol.

Besides the fact that Polak has been one of Peoria's best dmen this year before the injury and lets not forget that the kid is only 21 yrs old. He got in 19 games last year as a 20 yr old dman and didn't look out of place at all, especially as he got more time. The Blues are very high on him, but where do you expect him to play right now before some dmen get moved? I"d imagine you wouldn't see him full-time until Backman and Walker are moved. I think the blues are high on Salvador and he's had a very good year so I'd imagine they'll offer him another contract or he may be moved at the deadline. I couldn't imagine his value to be any higher than right now, this season. Plus Jackman being UFA as well so something has to give. There's just a logjam right now and it doesn't hurt to let these guys develop in the A and get good minutes.

Chris

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12-30-2007, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Twisted Rister View Post
Why do so many Blues fans think playing in Alaska sucks?
I meant my comment as no offense to Alaska as a state nor as an ice hockey franchise. The Aces are one of the best organizations in the ECHL.

But put yourself in Kana's shoes. He is a small-town, Czech kid who just turned 20 years old that found himself at the end of the world. Alaska is a beautiful state, but it is extremely cold, really far away, is isolated and to a kid from central Europe, Alaska could be viewed as a frozen hell. Alcatraz for hockey players. Again, it is not exactly true, but you have think like Kana to be able to understand a little as to why he chickened out. Mix all of that with less sun light, some alcohol and seasonal depression and your done. Adios Kana!!

And to IrascibleOne: while all stereotypes are way over-generalized, they are also all true (i'm gonna take some flak for that one, but think about it)

We are not saying that Alaska is inherently bad, but lots of people would say that it is not such a great place. Peoria gets the shaft. For instance, people like Soderberg have characterized Peoria as "dull".
St. Louis the shaft by marquis players because they don't want to be in the midwest. They'd rather be in some flashy town. So, it's all relative. To lots of players, St. Louis and Peoria suck about as bad as Alaska, but is it actually true? Well, we know better. GO ACES!!!!!!!


Last edited by ChicagoBlues: 12-30-2007 at 12:26 PM.
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Old
12-31-2007, 12:43 AM
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Chicagoblues I took no offense at all. I have just noticed in other threads that it seems Alaska is not favored upon. I also understand what you are saying about Kana's age and small town boy, but I believe if you want to succeed and play at those higher levels of hockey, you are going to have to make sacrifices and do things that you are not acustom to.

I do feel though, that the new ownership group of the Aces has done a fantastic job of making the organization a top notch club. With great coaching, great affiliation and a lot hard work. Any player that comes here I hope can see that and be happy to play in front of fans that appreciate them so much.

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12-31-2007, 09:14 AM
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WalterSobchak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
Uh, Zaph... you did know that Polak has a broken ankle and will be out until probably February, right...

P_B

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZaphodBeeblebrox View Post
So why was Wagner brought up to take his spot and not Polak? Well besides the ankle injury, of course.
I know that is the case this time around, yeah.

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12-31-2007, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by IrascibleOne View Post
Showing your ignorance there, my friend.

Our winters can be cold, sure. Our summers, though... high 70's/low 80's are uncommon. Not a heat wave, but certainly not cold. As for the road trips... they're not so bad. The majority of their road games are played on the West Coast... maybe one short swing East each season. They fly almost everywhere, only busing it when on California roadies, for the most part.



Exactly. the prima-dona punks like Zakharov and Kana are the exception, not the rule. Most players love playing here. The "general assumptions" are made by the fans in StL/Peoria... normally based on stereotypical b.s. Take a look at the players who have run home from AK. Both Zakharov and Kana were underperforming at the lowest developmental level of the Blues system. Their running home has everything to do with their failure and likely nothing to do with being in Alaska. Sure, guys want to be playing in the AHL or NHL, but being sent to Alaska is not like being sent to Siberia.

The all year round part, was actually a question. I don't know Alaska's weather patterns. Never been. But I could imagine to many kids it is not an attractive choice and if they have a choice at all, they might not choose to go to Alaska. What are the other teams in Alaska's division and conference? I have to figure no matter who they play on the road, there is at least 1 and usually 2-4 time zones involved in the trip.

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12-31-2007, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by ZaphodBeeblebrox View Post
The all year round part, was actually a question. I don't know Alaska's weather patterns. Never been. But I could imagine to many kids it is not an attractive choice and if they have a choice at all, they might not choose to go to Alaska. What are the other teams in Alaska's division and conference? I have to figure no matter who they play on the road, there is at least 1 and usually 2-4 time zones involved in the trip.
Our summers are actually very nice temp wise like stated and our winters are pretty nice as well for the most part. Anchorage is centrally located and has an average winter temp of around 24 degrees I would say. The city has a 275,000 popullation and all the immenitites that one could want. It's one of them not to big, not to small towns.

The Aces play both the West and Pacific teams, the majority of the oppents are 1 hour ahead of us with a couple that are 2 hours.

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12-31-2007, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZaphodBeeblebrox View Post
I agree they are different styles of players, but it is not as if our "SAD" is exactly getting the job done. It would be argued that Jax is a "SAD" and a good one when he is on his game.

So why was Wagner brought up to take his spot and not Polak? Well besides the ankle injury, of course.

We can agree to disagree, and I am not saying Polak doesn't have a bright future...this was more in regards to Ian Cole's placement ahead of Polak and Woywitka according to HF, not a comparison with Wagner.
Don't mean to pile on you Zaph, especially since others have already addressed it. But like they said, Polak's playing style and age, in relation to Wagner, is most likely why Wagner is up before Polak. Obviously Wagner has had 2 extra years to polish his game as a 23 year old(Polak is 21). So it's not a question of Polak failing to meet expectations as much as Wagner exceeding expectations. He's right on the developmental path that JD and Co set out for him, except for the broken ankle part of course.

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12-31-2007, 12:20 PM
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WalterSobchak
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Don't mean to pile on you Zaph, especially since others have already addressed it. But like they said, Polak's playing style and age, in relation to Wagner, is most likely why Wagner is up before Polak. Obviously Wagner has had 2 extra years to polish his game as a 23 year old(Polak is 21). So it's not a question of Polak failing to meet expectations as much as Wagner exceeding expectations. He's right on the developmental path that JD and Co set out for him, except for the broken ankle part of course.
Its cool, I can appreciate the rebuttals and I do know both players play very different game styles. I suppose I'll be content drifting in the minority who think that game styles be damned, if the player is more ready they would be up.

My original reply was to the 2nd post, "why Ian Cole was listed above Wags, Woy and Polak" and my wording was poor. I stated it was because those 3 (precisely 2: Woy and Polak) had had the shot at playing for the Blues and weren't ready where-as Cole has yet to lace them up for the Blues.

I retract implying that Woywitka or Polak had "come up short of expectations" It was a poor choice of words and not at all what I was originally intending.


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