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Old
03-03-2008, 04:31 PM
  #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Kautsitsin View Post
As for the rest of the argument, I don't get what you're trying to say. IMO, Bouillon plays defense and is fourth in ES ice time because he's simply better at what he does than the others. Streit is up front and on the PP point because he's better than the other options available. Some cases the simplest explanation isn't the right one but this isn't one of the cases at all. The proof is in the pudding here.
You got 'er..

Bouillon has been pretty solid for us this season, I wish he wasn't making what he is, but regardless he is playing good hockey.

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Old
03-03-2008, 07:09 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Kevin Kautsitsin View Post
Anyone know the exact split? Streit is better as a forward at this point, I don't think there's much debate to this.
There is a website (incase no one has posted it yet) with everyone's most common linemates and details it down to minutes played and provides plus/minus etc. You should start there. Streit has played a lot of D this year.

And regardless of whether or not he is better at forward (he is), he is a better defenseman than Brisebois as far as awareness, and now even offensively. I KNOW there is no debate to that. As far as Bouillon goes... well, atleast Streit puts up numbers while playing defense. Frank is "solid", kinda like tofu. Definitely not a liquid, definitely not hard to bite through.

edit: ooops, here it is: http://www.cs.unb.ca/~mwf/habs/


Last edited by Ohashi_Jouzu: 03-03-2008 at 07:21 PM.
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Old
03-03-2008, 07:14 PM
  #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Kautsitsin View Post
Both Bouillon and Hamrlik looked supbar when playing with Streit(and Brisebois).
a) Hammer was new to the team at the time and there was obviously NO chemistry and little communication. Whose fault is that? Dunno. Put them together for a few weeks starting today, and it would be a vastly different saga. BUT, like you said. Streit is better as a forward EV and defense PP ("quarterback"?).

b) Bouillon, while he has gone back to the basics and is playing reliably, needs a bigger partner than Streit. Seriously. Forwards nowadays are a little taller than 5'9", and weigh more than 200 lbs. Streit, being not much bigger, can't do the job of 2 defensemen any better than Bouillon.

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03-03-2008, 07:19 PM
  #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Kautsitsin View Post
IMO, Bouillon plays defense and is fourth in ES ice time because he's simply better at what he does than the others.
If you want to find the DEFENSEmen, look at SH time. If you want to know the offensive defensemen, look at PP time. If you want to know who's left over, check ES time.

edit: BTW, this is no meant to refute your claim, just that it is my impression that Bouillon logs a lot of ES ice time as he gets a lot of rest during PPs and PKs.

edit 2: after checking, however, it would seem as though Bouillon does (infact) log a lot of PK time with Hammer, or atleast he used to.


Last edited by Ohashi_Jouzu: 03-03-2008 at 07:25 PM.
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Old
03-03-2008, 07:30 PM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
If you want to find the DEFENSEmen, look at SH time. If you want to know the offensive defensemen, look at PP time. If you want to know who's left over, check ES time.

edit: BTW, this is no meant to refute your claim, just that it is my impression that Bouillon logs a lot of ES ice time as he gets a lot of rest during PPs and PKs.
I know and I'd say you're right in terms of how he gets no PP time at all. Carbo likes to put in his non special teams players right after a PK or PP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post

edit 2: after checking, however, it would seem as though Bouillon does (infact) log a lot of PK time with Hammer.
I was going to post this, but yeah you've saved me the trouble.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
a) Hammer was new to the team at the time and there was obviously NO chemistry and little communication. Whose fault is that? Dunno. Put them together for a few weeks starting today, and it would be a vastly different saga. BUT, like you said. Streit is better as a forward EV and defense PP ("quarterback"?).
Hmm, I was thinking of a few weeks ago, I'm pretty sure Streit was put in with Hamrlik after OB got injured which coincided with Hammers mini-"slump". I really don't think Streit is a good complement to a defense, I feel he's somewhat of a last resort player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
b) Bouillon, while he has gone back to the basics and is playing reliably, needs a bigger partner than Streit. Seriously. Forwards nowadays are a little taller than 5'9", and weigh more than 200 lbs. Streit, being not much bigger, can't do the job of 2 defensemen any better than Bouillon.
Is Gorges really that big of a player though? He's not big or strong, but he's a tireless worker, he gives that second effort and makes excellent decisions with the puck. That's what imo seperates him from Streit and a position at the blue line. Streit can be very lackadaisical back there, he lacks that extra second and alertness you need in the NHL, if he had the strength he could've been better but I don't think that's going to happen. I don't know your thoughts on it, but to me Gorges completes Bouillon's game very, very well, especially since that bottom pairing lacked that good first pass he brings.


Wow btw, 4 goals Washington, just lit up Thomas, 2 goals Ovechkin .

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Old
03-03-2008, 07:39 PM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Kautsitsin View Post
Is Gorges really that big of a player though? He's not big or strong, but he's a tireless worker, he gives that second effort and makes excellent decisions with the puck. That's what imo seperates him from Streit and a position at the blue line. Streit can be very lackadaisical back there, he lacks that extra second and alertness you need in the NHL, if he had the strength he could've been better but I don't think that's going to happen. I don't know your thoughts on it, but to me Gorges completes Bouillon's game very, very well, especially since that bottom pairing lacked that good first pass he brings.
Gorges is just big enough that leverage becomes less of an issue. Frank is strong, but lever physics suggests he needs to be stronger to move something that can not only push laterally against him, but also slightly downwards on him. His lower centre of gravity only helps him in open-ice hits. Streit is not much taller, but those few inches make up a lot on leverage, especially in front of the net. The same applies for Gorges, who is just that little bit taller than Streit still. I wouldn't even hazard a guess as to who wins in a benching comp. though.

I don't agree with the point in bold, btw. I think you have a lingering impression from either a past year, or a few glaring incidents that left a lasting impression, as they say. I've always had the impression that Streit used to be one of the few guys whose concentration never took a shift off. But in the end, impressions are impressions, and I guess ours simply differ.

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Old
03-04-2008, 01:42 AM
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Gorges is just big enough that leverage becomes less of an issue. Frank is strong, but lever physics suggests he needs to be stronger to move something that can not only push laterally against him, but also slightly downwards on him. His lower centre of gravity only helps him in open-ice hits. Streit is not much taller, but those few inches make up a lot on leverage, especially in front of the net. The same applies for Gorges, who is just that little bit taller than Streit still. I wouldn't even hazard a guess as to who wins in a benching comp. though.
I don't agree with the point in bold, btw. I think you have a lingering impression from either a past year, or a few glaring incidents that left a lasting impression, as they say. I've always had the impression that Streit used to be one of the few guys whose concentration never took a shift off. But in the end, impressions are impressions, and I guess ours simply differ.
You're right between those 2 players but Brisebois easily win for sure.

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