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Gonchar/Bondra Trade discussions

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Old
01-22-2004, 10:18 AM
  #1
TomWaits
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Gonchar rumoured to be coming to the leafs!?

According to the FAN 590 there is a report out of Dallas that the leafs and washington are talking regarding Gonchar. In return Washington would get Berg and Antropov.

Oh man could you image the top 4 leafs being Kaberle/McCabe then Klee/Gonchar leaving Marchment and Pilar to round out the last pair.

Antropov IMO is not going to be the player that we all thought he might be. Yes he has had the injuries but to be honest has he really taken a step forward this season? Not really. Berg is whatever a #5 or 6 average - above average defensemen.

Gonchar on the other had is an offensive powerhouse and plays very well with Klee.

Anyways here's to hoping

Sorry no link

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Old
01-22-2004, 10:21 AM
  #2
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Heard it as well.

IMO, either get it done SOON... or forget about it.

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Old
01-22-2004, 10:22 AM
  #3
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ya, i heard the same thing this morning on the Fan.... I wonder why its coming from a Dallas Newspaper and not a Washington or Toronto one? you would think Strachan would be all over this...anyways, their defense will look pretty good, but still lacking a big stay at home type of guy, and dont forget Gonchar is the worst +/- player in the league.....

Heres my D if we got him:

Gonchar Klee
Kaberle McCabe
Pilar Marchment/Coli/Jackman

Power Play
McCabe Gonchar
Kaberle Pilar

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Old
01-22-2004, 10:32 AM
  #4
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By losing Berg we would be losing our second best or best defensive D man this year. I don't like this deal at all.

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01-22-2004, 10:43 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ComrieFanatic
ya, i heard the same thing this morning on the Fan.... I wonder why its coming from a Dallas Newspaper and not a Washington or Toronto one? you would think Strachan would be all over this...anyways, their defense will look pretty good, but still lacking a big stay at home type of guy, and dont forget Gonchar is the worst +/- player in the league.....

Heres my D if we got him:

Gonchar Klee
Kaberle McCabe
Pilar Marchment/Coli/Jackman

Power Play
McCabe Gonchar
Kaberle Pilar
I agree with that, but I would put Marchment with Pilar because of the way Marchment hits players who have there head down. This will scare opposing teams wingers, this is what we did not have in the playoffs last year.

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Old
01-22-2004, 10:47 AM
  #6
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They are simply reporting the stupid rumour that was started on wowhockey.com.

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Old
01-22-2004, 11:23 AM
  #7
wasting time
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I have an idea,

why don't we make our top 6:

Gonchar/Kaberle
Colaiacovo/Pilar
Hedin/Jackman

This way, we just play offense ALL THE TIME. We'll give up 60 shots a game, but we'll also score 7 or 8 so defense really won't matter.

BRING ON GONCHAR!!!!


That'll help us against the Philly forecheck. The achilles heel of the Leafs.

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Old
01-22-2004, 12:14 PM
  #8
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THE LATEST ON THE CAPITALS.

OTTAWA SUN: Bruce Garrioch reports Washington Capitals owner Ted Leonsis has apparently decided to "cut his losses" which could be to the tune of $24 million US from his payroll. Garrioch claims "sources" saying Jaromir Jagr, Peter Bondra, Sergei Gonchar and Robert Lang could be dealt. It's believes Bondra ($4.5 million) and Gonchar ($3.65 million) would be "the most attractive". Garrioch also claims goalie Olaf Kolzig might be available too and the Colorado Avalanche have apparently coveted him since last fall.

Spector's Note: The only club apparently able to take Jagr off the Capitals hands is the Rangers and that's not a slam-dunk. Lang is having a career season but his $5 mil per season will be tough to move given the uncertainty over the outcome of the next CBA. I'm not sure (and perhaps some of you readers out there can comfirm this for me) but I think Bondra's a UFA after this season and Gonchar is an RFA with arbitration rights this summer. If so, the only guy who might be the easiest to move would be Bondra as a playoff rental. As for Kolzig and the Avs, if I've said it once, I've said it a hundred times, the Avs are very happy with David Aebischer as their starter. His stats are far better than Kolzig's and he's showing no signs of faltering. Thus if the Avs are truly interested in a goalie, I believe they'll shop for an inexpensive veteran backup.
.................................................. .................................................. .....

After watching Gonchar and Bondra thunder away from the point on the powerplay and since they both seem to be available for the right price ....A large deal involving both would be great for Toronto and .......IF THERE IS ANY TRUTH..that Gonchar 's value is Ant and Berg ...then to add a 34 year old UFA in Bondra for a cup run HAS TO BE CHEAPER than O'NEILL in assets.....

I think Gonchar would be a great addition ...Firing away on the PP and with Leafs type & Style of Roberts and Nolan & Nieuwendyk crowing the net....

Then after such a move a Defensive Dman could be pick up at the Deadline ..like say Wesley again..

just an aside note Philly keeps loading up on Dman as today ....

Flyers acquire defenceman Timander
TSN.ca Staff
1/22/2004

The Philadelphia Flyers picked up yet another defenceman on Thursday, acquiring Matthias Timander from the New York Islanders for a seventh-round pick in 2004.


Last edited by Mess: 01-22-2004 at 02:56 PM.
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Old
01-22-2004, 02:21 PM
  #9
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I don't like the idea of Gonchar in Toronto. I don't see it as any coincedence that as soon as Klee got away from Gonchar he started racking up points, and looking far better. If Toronto wants a star defenceman, make it a defensive one, a Hatcher of sorts. However if they want an offensive one, why not give Ian White, Pierre Hedin, and Carlo Colaiacovo a shot? Carlo has 2 points in 4 NHL games as far as I remember. Hedin has what? 1 in 2 or 3. Toronto has to give these guys that shot before making a move for a guy like Gonchar. Especially if it'd cost us 2 young guys in Antropov/Berg.

Maybe they should talk to Buffalo about Zhitnik, or even Edmonton about Jason Smith and cut out losses on that deal and give up something for him. I'm aware their different style players, but Gonchar would hurt Klee's production.

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Old
01-22-2004, 02:34 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregStack
I don't like the idea of Gonchar in Toronto. I don't see it as any coincedence that as soon as Klee got away from Gonchar he started racking up points, and looking far better. If Toronto wants a star defenceman, make it a defensive one, a Hatcher of sorts. However if they want an offensive one, why not give Ian White, Pierre Hedin, and Carlo Colaiacovo a shot? Carlo has 2 points in 4 NHL games as far as I remember. Hedin has what? 1 in 2 or 3. Toronto has to give these guys that shot before making a move for a guy like Gonchar. Especially if it'd cost us 2 young guys in Antropov/Berg.

Maybe they should talk to Buffalo about Zhitnik, or even Edmonton about Jason Smith and cut out losses on that deal and give up something for him. I'm aware their different style players, but Gonchar would hurt Klee's production.
I would tend to agree. With Klee playing so well (much better than he did last year WITH Gonchar), I would like to see he and Berg remain as a tandem on the ice.

I also like the idea of bringing in Jason Smith (I wonder what K-Lo would want in return). I think he could be had for, say, Kondrietiev or Bell (considering that Smith will be an UFA and the Oilers won't want to pay him). That way your pairings could be

Kaberle-McCabe
Klee-Berg
Smith-Pilar/Colaiacovo/Hedin/Marchment

The #6 guy would depend on who the opponent was as well as what Cola and Hedin are able to show the rest of the season.

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Old
01-22-2004, 02:36 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregStack

Maybe they should talk to Buffalo about Zhitnik, or even Edmonton about Jason Smith and cut out losses on that deal and give up something for him. I'm aware their different style players, but Gonchar would hurt Klee's production.
We didn't get Klee for his offence, thats what Mccabe, Kaberle and Gonchar would be good for, Klee was grabbed for his defensive worth, the points have been a bonus, but thats not his main job.

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Old
01-22-2004, 02:46 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wendelissimo
We didn't get Klee for his offence, thats what Mccabe, Kaberle and Gonchar would be good for, Klee was grabbed for his defensive worth, the points have been a bonus, but thats not his main job.
Very true, but if he's putting up points, why cut them off? He may keep putting up points with a lower risk defenceman who still provides offensive upside and costs less, or even flourish if we add a defensive player to him, and let him score more. Gonchar is like a -22 this season. He's costing his team more than he gives them.

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Old
01-22-2004, 03:03 PM
  #13
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is this that 3-way dallas/washington/toronto rumor from the weekend ?

anyways, gonchar would put us over the top, lets face it

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Old
01-22-2004, 03:05 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenadyan
I also like the idea of bringing in Jason Smith (I wonder what K-Lo would want in return). I think he could be had for, say, Kondrietiev or Bell (considering that Smith will be an UFA and the Oilers won't want to pay him).
I'd suggest not screwing around if they want him. Defencemen are being snatched up right now, and they should offer Maxim Kondratiev + TOR 3rd 2004, and do it ASAP. Before other teams get in the running. Even if they overpay, we need a shot at the Cup, and he'd help us greatly.

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Old
01-22-2004, 03:15 PM
  #15
Mess
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregStack
I'd suggest not screwing around if they want him. Defencemen are being snatched up right now, and they should offer Maxim Kondratiev + TOR 3rd 2004, and do it ASAP. Before other teams get in the running. Even if they overpay, we need a shot at the Cup, and he'd help us greatly.
That doesn't make sense Greg .... You don't want the leafs to over pay and make an offer that even amateur couch GM's like us can turn down.... and then your other teams get in the running would be opposite how I would run a team ..If I was offering a player up...I would call all the other 29 teams and let them know...and take the BEST OFFER not FIRST OFFER ...

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01-22-2004, 03:18 PM
  #16
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Originally Posted by The Messenger
That doesn't make sense Greg .... You don't want the leafs to over pay and make an offer that even amateur couch GM's like us can turn down.... and then your other teams get in the running would be opposite how I would run a team ..If I was offering a player up...I would call all the other 29 teams and let them know...and take the BEST OFFER not FIRST OFFER ...
It would make sense of you have targetted that player as the one that you want and make an offer to land him first knowing that others may be trying as well. Depends on your strategy I guess.

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Old
01-22-2004, 03:20 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
That doesn't make sense Greg .... You don't want the leafs to over pay and make an offer that even amateur couch GM's like us can turn down.... and then your other teams get in the running would be opposite how I would run a team ..If I was offering a player up...I would call all the other 29 teams and let them know...and take the BEST OFFER not FIRST OFFER ...
If I was the one looking to shop a player then I'd also be calling around to everyone, however if someone makes a strong offer and happens to be the first offer, you jump on it. Also, the overpaying that I'm speaking of would not be huge. I'm not saying send them our first for Smith. We're deep with defencive prospects, so send one plus a pick. We pick terribly in the first 5 rounds anyways ;-) lol.

It's important for the Leafs to get a strong defenceman, who ISN'T Gonchar, as well as keep the ammunition to make other trades, Smith is likely the only defenceman available that could come that easily. IMO

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Old
01-22-2004, 03:45 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregStack
I'd suggest not screwing around if they want him. Defencemen are being snatched up right now, and they should offer Maxim Kondratiev + TOR 3rd 2004, and do it ASAP. Before other teams get in the running. Even if they overpay, we need a shot at the Cup, and he'd help us greatly.
Agreed that he would improve the team, but would he be able to take care of business in his own end? That is, would we still need a crease-clearing defensive stalwart?

I'm particularly concerned about McCabe, who is showing signs of turning into a Sandis Ozolinsh- he seems make a good amount of errors which end up neutralizing his offensive upside... How many reliable <u>defenders</u> do we have?

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Old
01-22-2004, 03:54 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregStack
If I was the one looking to shop a player then I'd also be calling around to everyone, however if someone makes a strong offer and happens to be the first offer, you jump on it. Also, the overpaying that I'm speaking of would not be huge. I'm not saying send them our first for Smith. We're deep with defencive prospects, so send one plus a pick. We pick terribly in the first 5 rounds anyways ;-) lol.

It's important for the Leafs to get a strong defenceman, who ISN'T Gonchar, as well as keep the ammunition to make other trades, Smith is likely the only defenceman available that could come that easily. IMO
Right .... I agree on your first point .....but the key is offer a STRONG offer or one the other team likes ...otherwise they will look elsewhere ..... and I guess do you feel Kondratiev and 3rd is a strong offer .... If say Toronto offered kaberle ...Yes then Washington MIGHT jump.... not that I am saying I would do it but that better fits your point... I think many teams could beat Kondratiev and late 3rd as you suggested..

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01-22-2004, 04:04 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
Right .... I agree on your first point .....but the key is offer a STRONG offer or one the other team likes ...otherwise they will look elsewhere ..... and I guess do you feel Kondratiev and 3rd is a strong offer .... If say Toronto offered kaberle ...Yes then Washington MIGHT jump.... not that I am saying I would do it but that better fits your point... I think many teams could beat Kondratiev and late 3rd as you suggested..

I believe you may mean that Edmonton may jump.

I do think that Kondratiev + a 3rd is a decent offer for Smith who is not having a strong season. The key in my mind is making the offer before other teams get involved.

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Old
01-22-2004, 04:32 PM
  #21
Mess
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregStack
I believe you may mean that Edmonton may jump.

I do think that Kondratiev + a 3rd is a decent offer for Smith who is not having a strong season. The key in my mind is making the offer before other teams get involved.
Sorry I thought you were talking about Gonchar there since this is the Gonchar thread...

and if you are talking about Jason Smith I think the offer is better ..but Kevin Lowe will probably still shop him around for the best offer since the Leaf offer is not immediate help... and as a playoff addition Jason Smith would be a good for any playoff team loading up..

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01-22-2004, 04:35 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by The Messenger
Sorry I thought you were talking about Gonchar there since this is the Gonchar thread...

and if you are talking about Jason Smith I think the offer is better ..but Kevin Lowe will probably still shop him around for the best offer since the Leaf offer is not immediate help... and as a playoff addition Jason Smith would be a good for any playoff team loading up..
I also believe he'd shop him around, but it's worth a try. I'd made a comment about how I thought Smith would be abetter acquisition for TO than Gonchar, and it started a slight side bar thread ;-).

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Old
01-22-2004, 04:42 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregStack
I also believe he'd shop him around, but it's worth a try. I'd made a comment about how I thought Smith would be abetter acquisition for TO than Gonchar, and it started a slight side bar thread ;-).
I don't know if Quinn would want Jason Smith back ... he didn't like him before and eve nhe doesn't have final say I am sure Fergy would ask Quinn but who knows what he would say... I personally would not like to see him back in Toronto.. if it was a Edmonton dman I would want Brewer, and look else where for the tough Dman ......

Second ...I think Gonchar would be great ....First as a PP QB not as a crease clearer... and that helps big time in the Playoffs... and having both Gonchar and Kaberle allows Fergy the ability to either trade Carlo or even Kabs since they are all similar offensive type first and not defensive dmen..

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01-22-2004, 04:53 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by wasting time
By losing Berg we would be losing our second best or best defensive D man this year. I don't like this deal at all.
No. Berg's pretty much useless.

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Old
01-22-2004, 04:56 PM
  #25
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I say make a pitch for Bondra and Gonchar, we can afford them both

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