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Old
01-04-2008, 09:51 AM
  #1
Ar-too
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Our scoring issues

Why do the CBJ have so much trouble scoring goals? That's the issue I bring forth in this thread. We dance around this topic alot in GDTs and such, but I'd like to delve a little deeper here. Is it lack of talent? Injuries? The system? 2 of the 3? All 3? What?

The reason I ask is because I was looking at our stats compared to other teams and every team in the league but us and St Louis has at least 3 double-digit goal-scorers, and Tkachuk has 9 for them, and Stempniak and Perron each have 8. One of those three should have 10 very soon.

For us, our closest to 10 are Fedorov and Novotny with 7 each, and I would argue no one else is really all that close. It's hard to say when Feds or Novo will actually get there. Feds hadn't scored in 9 games before his goal last night. Novotny scored 3 goals in 6 games between 12/21 and 12/31, but went 16 games without a goal before that.

What's the deal?

Personally, for anyone who's not convinced that we needed a bona fide scoring threat in the offseason, this should be proof enough I think. Some of our forwards were old (Feds), and some appear to have gotten old really fast (Modin, Vyborny). We needed a scorer and didn't make any real attempt to get one. This is a problem and I fear it will keep us chugging along at around .500 for the rest of the year because we can't win when we don't score.

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01-04-2008, 09:56 AM
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Injuries:
Vybes
Duvie
Modin
Peca

Slumps:
Chimera
Malhotra
Fritsche

My estimate is that we're missing 1 goal per night due to this list.
And 1 extra goal per night would have won us a lot of games.

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01-04-2008, 10:06 AM
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No talent
time to open the wallet

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01-04-2008, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipe dreams View Post
No talent
time to open the wallet
Like the Rangers and Kings...worked well for them.

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Old
01-04-2008, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PubOFH View Post
Like the Rangers and Kings...worked well for them.
What about the Flyers?

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Old
01-04-2008, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PubOFH View Post
Like the Rangers and Kings...worked well for them.

yes I here ya!!

do nothing keep getting 1 mill to 2 mill players and see how far we go
why would we want another dynamic fwd? that would be stupid
it would be a total waste of money.

NYR and Philly doesn't have anything to do with CBJ

why is this such an issue with everbody?

we have 10 million

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01-04-2008, 10:36 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PubOFH View Post
Like the Rangers and Kings...worked well for them.
Someone mentioned in the GDT the Kings' offseason splurge and how it hasn't paid off. The subsequent point was that coaching matters and developing players matters. I agree. My point is, since we know Hitch is a successful coach and that so far Howson has shown a restrained approach, when possible, to developing players, why not add the final component - talent? It's not like it's necessary to choose between them. The implication is that it doesn't matter how good your players are if the coaching and organ-eye-zation is a suck. Damn straight. But can players make a difference if your coaching and organ-eye-zation are solid? I'd like to find out.

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01-04-2008, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassť View Post
Someone mentioned in the GDT the Kings' offseason splurge and how it hasn't paid off. The subsequent point was that coaching matters and developing players matters. I agree. My point is, since we know Hitch is a successful coach and that so far Howson has shown a restrained approach, when possible, to developing players, why not add the final component - talent? It's not like it's necessary to choose between them. The implication is that it doesn't matter how good your players are if the coaching and organ-eye-zation is a suck. Damn straight. But can players make a difference if your coaching and organ-eye-zation are solid? I'd like to find out.
Definitely and we'll see such an upgrade(I hope) in the offseason. I don't think there are worthy risks to take at this moment and that probably explains his trepidation in this trade market.

Almost every team in the league has playoff aspirations right now. Its parity en masse. Noone is going to shed scoring talent without asking you for something big in return.

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01-04-2008, 10:41 AM
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I'm going to go with youth. Here's a list of our top 10 scorers, anyone 25 or younger is in bold. That's a lot of guys not to mention others like Joakim Lindstrom who will be be in the top 10 shortly or Beech, who is 26.

Nash 21
Zherdev 15
Fedorov 7
Novotny 7
Glencross 6
Fritsche 6
Chimera 5
Malhotra 5
Beech 5
Boll/Klesla/Peca 4

I really don't think it's a huge issue for us right now--we are finding ways to win games because our goal tending is fantastic. Also, last nights game with LA was won with our secondary scoring starting to come around. When you look at the central division there are only 2 teams with more GF than GA (Columbus & Detroit). When the season is all said and done we could (potentially) have one 45 goal scorer, one 30+ goal scorer, and 3 20 goal scorers. All of that without Modin who was second in goals last season (with 22).

That's progress.


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Old
01-04-2008, 10:46 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
Definitely and we'll see such an upgrade(I hope) in the offseason. I don't think there are worthy risks to take at this moment and that probably explains his trepidation in this trade market.

Almost every team in the league has playoff aspirations right now. Its parity en masse. Noone is going to shed scoring talent without asking you for something big in return.
Yep. I guess my frustration dates back to the previous offseason (I know), at which time I'd have liked to have seen at least one "skill" signing, so the team would be, hopefully, taking baby steps forward in the scoring department. As it is, you're right about most likely waiting until the offseason to address this.

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01-04-2008, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipe dreams View Post
No talent
time to open the wallet
ExGM-DM opened the wallet, got us Federov and that didn't work.

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Old
01-04-2008, 10:57 AM
  #12
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ExGM-DM opened the wallet, got us Federov and that didn't work.
True, but

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01-04-2008, 11:18 AM
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all points heard and most correct IMO.

but I feel we are 1-2 players short of making it and for me this season is a must
to much time energy and money invested and way to many disappointments.
this season has been great but to much BS for 7 years
players, management, coaching, ownership all knew what they were getting in to
and they owe it to the fans
get it done!!!!!

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01-04-2008, 11:19 AM
  #14
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Scoring is actually down this year. We have 103 goals at the halfway point of the season, last season we had 106.

Of course, we've allowed 26 less goals, which is why we have 8 more points.

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Old
01-04-2008, 11:43 AM
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i'd say its a lack of talent...yeah fritsche or chimmer might go on a hot streak but then they'll go back to being themselves and our scoring drops...don't break the bank this off season but get us some scoring !!

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01-04-2008, 11:55 AM
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I'm going with a lack of chemistry. Due to a lack of health, Hitch has had to patch together lines trying to get some semblance of chemistry.

If we had a healthy lineup throughout the first half, chances are the lines wouldn't be as jumbled and the players will have had the opportunity to develop chemistry.

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01-04-2008, 12:26 PM
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IMHO this team still lacks a true #1 center. I don't recall ever having one. When you think about it this team really only 1 maybe 2 dynamic scoring threats. When the other team only needs to bottle up Nash it's pretty easy to shutdown the scoring. Add a top 2 defenseman that can actually move the puck and the CBJ could easily become a consistent threat. I brought this up in the summer but the common opinion was let one of the younger guys step in. That has been the issue with the CBJ for a long time. Too many times the younger players are thrown in way to early. Just look what it did to Brule. I'm all for giving the younger players a chance but why not sign someone to a 3-4 deal and let the young guys develop and then either bring them up or trade them for other needs.

Another issue I see almost every game is the powerplay. Sometimes you would think they don't even practice it. It's especially glaring when you watch other games. Just watch the next CBJ powerplay and look at how "rushed" all the players look. They all seem to be in a hurry to get rid of the puck. Other teams know this and know all it takes is a little pressure. Just watch how relaxed a Detroit or Nashville powerplay seems compared to the CBJ.

Issue #3...Can anyone on this team hit the freaking net with a shot? On the rare occassion a shot actually does make it on net there is usually no one in position for the rebound. Maybe it's time for Hitch to use smaller nets in practice.

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01-04-2008, 12:26 PM
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Last season, the Speed Line of C/M/F was awesome... this year it has sputtered. I think we have decent, middle of the road talent, but they're not gelling for some reason. There are flashes of 5/6 games, like with Nasher and Z, but even that faded. I do love the fact our defense is finally doing well.

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01-04-2008, 12:28 PM
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Last season, the Speed Line of C/M/F was awesome... this year it has sputtered. I think we have decent, middle of the road talent, but they're not gelling for some reason. There are flashes of 5/6 games, like with Nasher and Z, but even that faded. I do love the fact our defense is finally doing well.

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01-04-2008, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macster View Post
I'm going with a lack of chemistry. Due to a lack of health, Hitch has had to patch together lines trying to get some semblance of chemistry.

If we had a healthy lineup throughout the first half, chances are the lines wouldn't be as jumbled and the players will have had the opportunity to develop chemistry.
I totally agree. Last season, the Speed Line of C/M/F was awesome... this year it has sputtered. I think we have decent, middle of the road talent, but they're not gelling for some reason. There are flashes of 5/6 games, like with Nasher and Z, but even that faded. I do love the fact our defense is finally doing well.

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01-04-2008, 12:31 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macster View Post
I'm going with a lack of chemistry. Due to a lack of health, Hitch has had to patch together lines trying to get some semblance of chemistry.

If we had a healthy lineup throughout the first half, chances are the lines wouldn't be as jumbled and the players will have had the opportunity to develop chemistry.
I totally agree. Last season, the Speed Line of C/M/F was awesome... this year it has sputtered. I think we have decent, middle of the road talent, but they're not gelling for some reason. There are flashes of 5/6 games, like with Nasher and Z, but even that faded. I do love the fact our defense is finally doing well.

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01-04-2008, 12:32 PM
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Nordique
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macster View Post
I'm going with a lack of chemistry. Due to a lack of health, Hitch has had to patch together lines trying to get some semblance of chemistry.

If we had a healthy lineup throughout the first half, chances are the lines wouldn't be as jumbled and the players will have had the opportunity to develop chemistry.
Vyborny not playing well and Modin being absent would be my big ones, and those coincide I think with your lack of chemistry due to personnel shuffling.

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01-04-2008, 12:34 PM
  #23
Nordique
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macster View Post
I'm going with a lack of chemistry. Due to a lack of health, Hitch has had to patch together lines trying to get some semblance of chemistry.

If we had a healthy lineup throughout the first half, chances are the lines wouldn't be as jumbled and the players will have had the opportunity to develop chemistry.
Vyborny not playing well and Modin being absent would be my big ones, and those coincide I think with your lack of chemistry due to personnel shuffling.

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Old
01-04-2008, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macster View Post
I'm going with a lack of chemistry. Due to a lack of health, Hitch has had to patch together lines trying to get some semblance of chemistry.

If we had a healthy lineup throughout the first half, chances are the lines wouldn't be as jumbled and the players will have had the opportunity to develop chemistry.
I think your spot on with this. We've seen that Hitch believes in pairings, he's found Novotny-Zherdev. He seems to like the idea of Nash-Modin. Problem is Modin hasn't been healthy since the first week of the season. And Federov with any of the youngsters seems to be working out.

Throw in the constant injuries to Peca, time missed by Vyborny, Malhotra, ect. and the lines had to be constantly jumbled.

If and when the team gets healthy which looks like it could be relatively soon, I think we'll see more "set lines" and as a result the chemistry will get better and the scoring will increase.

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Old
01-04-2008, 12:52 PM
  #25
dru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShelleyFan45 View Post
We've seen that Hitch believes in pairings, he's found Novotny-Zherdev. He seems to like the idea of Nash-Modin. Problem is Modin hasn't been healthy since the first week of the season. And Federov with any of the youngsters seems to be working out.
Which is why I don't think it's a chemistry problem. Personally, I think Fedorov with Glencross/Lindstrom or Lindstrom/Murray is pure genius on Hitchcock's behalf. Truly, Gallant would have never thought of this and ex-GMDM would have never allowed it to happen. Novotny/Zherdev and Fedorov/Youngsters are locks for the season in my book. Chimmera and Malhotra probably won't be seperated either because there is a history of chemistry there as well. A Nash/Peca/Modin line should be awesome too if it could stay healthy.

Vyborny... gee whiz, what happend to you man?

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