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The Rebuild/Tank Thread

View Poll Results: Would you accept the Leafs going through a long rebuilding process?
Yes, it's been a long time coming 236 90.08%
No, we have to try to win now 26 9.92%
Voters: 262. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-04-2008, 10:15 PM
  #51
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01-04-2008, 10:22 PM
  #52
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Here is a list of all the finalists and Stanley Cup winners since the 1980 Islanders. I wanted a massive test sample just to see how its been done.

Quote:
1980-81 New York Islanders Al Arbour Minnesota North Stars Glen Sonmor 4-1 Wayne Merrick (5:37, 1st)
1981-82 New York Islanders (PW) Al Arbour Vancouver Canucks (CC) Roger Neilson 4-0 Mike Bossy (5:00, 2nd)
1982-83 New York Islanders (PW) Al Arbour Edmonton Oilers (CC) Glen Sather 4-0 Mike Bossy (12:39, 1st)
1983-84 Edmonton Oilers (CC) Glen Sather New York Islanders (PW) Al Arbour 4-1 Ken Linseman (0:38, 2nd)
1984-85 Edmonton Oilers (CC) Glen Sather Philadelphia Flyers (PW) Mike Keenan 4-1 Paul Coffey (17:57, 1st)
1985-86 Montreal Canadiens (PW) Jean Perron Calgary Flames (CC) Bob Johnson 4-1 Bobby Smith (10:30, 3rd)
1986-87 Edmonton Oilers (CC) Glen Sather Philadelphia Flyers (PW) Mike Keenan 4-3 Jari Kurri (14:59, 2nd)
1987-88 Edmonton Oilers (CC) Glen Sather Boston Bruins (PW) Terry O'Reilly 4-0 Wayne Gretzky (9:44, 2nd)
1988-89 Calgary Flames (CC) Terry Crisp Montreal Canadiens (PW) Pat Burns 4-2 Doug Gilmour (11:02, 3rd)
1989-90 Edmonton Oilers (CC) John Muckler Boston Bruins (PW) Mike Milbury 4-1 Craig Simpson (9:31, 2nd)
  • Islanders - chose 1st in 72, 1st in 73, 4th in 74
  • Minnesota - chose 6th in 74, 4th in 75, 3rd in 76, 7th in 77, 1st in 78, 6th in 79
  • Oilers - (Wayne for free), 6th in 80, 8th in 81 (Phenomenal drafting on both those seasons)
  • Montreal - 1st in 80, 7th in 81 (Habs rebuilt without high picks)
  • Calgary - started choosing at 13th. Players did carry over from the WHA.


Quote:
1990-91 Pittsburgh Penguins (PW) Bob Johnson Minnesota North Stars (CC) Bob Gainey 4-2 Ulf Samuelsson (2:00, 1st)
1991-92 Pittsburgh Penguins (PW) Scotty Bowman Chicago Blackhawks (CC) Mike Keenan 4-0 Ron Francis (7:59, 3rd)
1992-93 Montreal Canadiens (PW) Jacques Demers Los Angeles Kings (CC) Barry Melrose 4-1
1993-94 New York Rangers (E) Mike Keenan Vancouver Canucks (W) Pat Quinn 4-3 Mark Messier (13:29, 2nd)
1994-95 New Jersey Devils (E) Jacques Lemaire Detroit Red Wings (W) Scotty Bowman 4-0 Neal Broten (7:56, 2nd)
1995-96 Colorado Avalanche (W) Marc Crawford Florida Panthers (E) Doug MacLean 4-0 Uwe Krupp (4:31, 3rd OT)
1996-97 Detroit Red Wings (W) Scotty Bowman Philadelphia Flyers (E) Terry Murray 4-0 Darren McCarty (13:02, 2nd)
1997-98 Detroit Red Wings (W) Scotty Bowman Washington Capitals (E) Ron Wilson 4-0 Martin Lapointe (2:26, 2nd)
1998-99 Dallas Stars (W) Ken Hitchcock Buffalo Sabres (E) Lindy Ruff 4-2 Brett Hull (14:51, 3rd OT)
1999-2000 New Jersey Devils (E) Larry Robinson Dallas Stars (W) Ken Hitchcock 4-2 Jason Arnott (8:20, 2nd OT)
  • Penguins - 1st in 84, 2nd in 85, 4th in 86, 5th in 87, 4th in 88, 5th in 90
  • Chicago - 3rd in 84, 8th in 87, 8th in 88, 6th in 89
  • Montreal built this time without tanking
  • Rangers - 9th in 81, 7th in 85, 9th in 86
  • New Jersey - 8th in 82, 6th in 83, 2nd in 84, 3rd in 85, 3rd in 86, 2nd in 87, 12th in 88, 5th in 89, 3rd in 91, 11 in 91
  • Detroit - 4th in 83, 7th in 84, 8th in 85, 1st in 86, 11th in 87, 11 in 89, 3rd in 90, 10th in 91
  • Colorado (Quebec) - 9th in 87, 3rd in 88, 1st in 89, 1st in 90, 1st in 91, 4th in 92, 10th in 93, 12th in 94
  • Dallas Stars/Minnesota - 6th in 87, 1st in 88, 7th in 89, 8th in 90, 8th in 91
  • Philadelphia - 4th in 90, 6th in 91, 7th in 92
  • Buffalo - Made it without high drafting
Quote:
2000-01 Colorado Avalanche (W) Bob Hartley New Jersey Devils (E) Larry Robinson 4-3 Alex Tanguay (4:57, 2nd)
2001-02 Detroit Red Wings (W) Scotty Bowman Carolina Hurricanes (E) Paul Maurice 4-1 Brendan Shanahan (14:04, 2nd)
2002-03 New Jersey Devils (E) Pat Burns Mighty Ducks of Anaheim (W) Mike Babcock 4-3 Michael Rupp (2:22, 2nd)
2003-04 Tampa Bay Lightning (E) John Tortorella Calgary Flames (W) Darryl Sutter 4-3 Ruslan Fedotenko (14:38, 2nd)
2004-05 Not awarded due to the cancellation of the 2004-05 season.
2005-06 Carolina Hurricanes (E) Peter Laviolette Edmonton Oilers (W) Craig MacTavish 4-3 Frantisek Kaberle (4:18, 2nd)
2006-07 Anaheim Ducks (W) Randy Carlyle Ottawa Senators (E) Bryan Murray 4-1 Travis Moen (15:44, 2nd)
  • Colorado (Quebec) - 9th in 87, 3rd in 88, 1st in 89, 1st in 90, 1st in 91, 4th in 92, 10th in 93, 12th in 94
  • New Jersey - 8th in 82, 6th in 83, 2nd in 84, 3rd in 85, 3rd in 86, 2nd in 87, 12th in 88, 5th in 89, 3rd in 91, 11 in 91
  • Detroit - 4th in 83, 7th in 84, 8th in 85, 1st in 86, 11th in 87, 11 in 89, 3rd in 90, 10th in 91
  • Anaheim - 4th in 93, 2nd in 94, 4th in 95, 9th in 96, 5th in 98
  • Carolina/Hartford - 10th in 89, 9th in 91, 9th in 92, 2nd in 93, 5th in 94, 2nd in 2003, 4th in 2004, 3rd in 2005
  • Tampa - 1st in 92, 3rd in 93, 8th in 94, 5th in 95, 7th in 97, 1st in 98, 8th in 2000, 3rd in 2001
  • Edmonton - 7th in 93, 4th in 94, 6th in 95, 6th in 96
  • Ottawa - 2nd in 92, 1st in 93, 3rd in 94, 1st in 95, 1st in 96, 12th in 97, 2nd in 2001

More then 95% of the teams which made it to the finals went through years of high draft picks and low finishes.

This is for all the naysayers who think a little tanking and selecting high DOESN'T WORK. Lets face it with 40+ years NO CUP AND NO FINALS. Its about time we look into other avenues.

Many point to the 80's and say "Well we tanked all those years how come we didn't win?"

Ghetto scouting staff, Minimal budget, Incompetent management staff

1st rounder (Scott Niermayer) for Tom Kurvers, Courtnall for Kordic, to name a few


Last edited by LTL: 01-04-2008 at 10:30 PM.
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Old
01-04-2008, 10:23 PM
  #53
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I don't know if tanking is the right word for it, but it doesn't bother me if we keep losing.

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01-04-2008, 10:27 PM
  #54
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Count me in, Ive been saying this for two years now. If Gretzky can be traded, Sundin can be traded.

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01-04-2008, 10:32 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acekicker123 View Post
Hey guys, a valid point was brought up by Suntouchable about how prospects can turn out to be busts. That's a definite possibility so I thought it would be good to take a look at the recent sucesses of these top 5 picks of a draft many of us are currently aiming for.

The analysis will be very simple. We'll look back upon the top 5 picks from the draft years 1997-2004, as it may be too soon to judge from '05 onwards, and then categorize those players into the following choices:

A) Elite NHL player, perennial all-star
B) Very good NHL player, may make a few all-star appearances
C) Solid NHL player, one of the better ones on a team
D) Average NHL player
E) Borderline NHL player, Bust

Players that are still quite young or may have yet to get a good chance to succeed, I will provide a small range to give a rough guage of their potential.

1997:

1) Joe Thornton- A
2) Patrick Marleau- B
3) Olli Jokinen- A/B
4) Roberto Luongo- A
5) Eric Brewer-C

1998:

1) Vincent Lecavalier- A
2) David Legwand- B
3) Brad Stuart- C
4) Bryan Allen- C
5) Vitali Vishnevsky- D

1999:

1) Patrik Stefan-D
2) Daniel Sedin-A/B
3) Henrik Sedin-A/B
4) Pavel Brendl- E
5) Tim Connolly- B/C

2000:

1) Rick DiPietro- B
2) Dany Heatley- A
3) Marian Gaborik- A
4) Rostislav Klesla- C
5) Raffi Torres- C

2001:

1) Ilya Kovalchuk- A
2) Jason Spezza- A
3) Alexandr Svitov- D/E
4) Stephen Weiss- B
5) Stanislav Chistov- D/E

2002:

1) Rick Nash- A
2) Kari Lehtonen- B
3) Jay Bouwmeester- A
4) Joni Pitkanen- B
5) Ryan Whitney- A/B

2003:

1) Marc-Andre Fleury- B/C
2) Eric Staal- A
3) Nathan Horton- B
4) Nikolai Zherdev- A/B
5) Thomas Vanek- A

2004:

1) Alexander Ovechkin- A
2) Evgeni Malkin- A
3) Cam Barker- B/C
4) Andrew Ladd- C
5) Blake Wheeler- B

Ok, here are the statistical breakdowns of these 40 picks:

A- 13
A/B- 5
B- 8
B/C- 3
C- 6
C/D- 0
D- 2
D/E- 2
E- 1

Essentially, when you're picking a top 5 pick, you really should be aiming for at least a big-time impact all-star. As such, a crude way of measuring success from these figures would be to look at how many times A's, A/B's or B's were selected.

Chance of drafting at least an all-star:
Totalling up A's, A/B's and B's yields 25, where 25/40 = 62.5%.

Chance of drafting at least a solid player who can contribute:
Adding up (A, A/B, B, B/C, C) yields 34, where 34/40 = 85%

Limitations of this method (many):

- Most of these guys are in the 25-30 range, so there's still plenty of time for them to get better or worse
- The rating system is obviously subjective and everyone would have their own opinions
- The general strengths of the draft years are different as well

That being said, it's still pretty clear that the top five of a draft is not as much of a crapshoot as one be led to believe, particularly in a draft as strong as this one. In addition, the Leafs have had a history of making pretty good picks despite the rarity of 1st and 2nd rd picks, and often picking in the bottom half of every round.

This is not at all scientific folks, but I just thought it'd be fun to do (it was) and it would be cool to talk about.
Just to add to this...

Let me remind everyone; The Goal of Hockey is to win the Stanley Cup.

So with that said, let's look at the last 15 Stanley Cup winners...

2007: Anaheim Ducks - Chris Pronger (2nd, 1993), Scott Niedermayer (3rd, 1991), Teemu Selanne (10th, 1988)
2006: Carolina Hurricanes - Eric Staal (2nd, 2003), Cory Stillman (6th, 1992), Rod Brind'Amour (9th, 1988)
2004: Tampa Bay Lightning - Vincent Lecavalier (1st, 1998), Cory Stillman (6th, 1992)
2003: New Jersey Devils - Scott Niedermayer (3rd, 1991), Scott Stevens (5th, 1982)
2002: Detroit Red Wings - Brendan Shanahan (2nd, 1987), Steve Yzerman (4th, 1983)
2001: Colorado Avalanche - Peter Forsberg (6th, 1991), Ray Bourque (8th, 1979)
2000: New Jersey Devils - Scott Niedermayer (3rd, 1991), Scott Stevens (5th, 1982), Jason Arnott (7th, 1993), Bobby Holik (10th, 1989)
1999: Dallas Stars - Mike Modano (1st, 1988), Darryl Sydor (7th, 1990), Derian Hatcher (8th, 1990)
1998: Detroit Red Wings - Brendan Shanahan (2nd, 1987), Steve Yzerman (4th, 1983), Larry Murphy (4th, 1980), Martin Lapointe (10th, 1991)
1997: Detroit Red Wings - Brendan Shanahan (2nd, 1987), Steve Yzerman (4th, 1983), Larry Murphy (4th, 1980), Martin Lapointe (10th, 1991)
1996: Colorado Avalanche - Mike Ricci (4th, 1990), Peter Forsberg (6th, 1991)
1995: New Jersey Devils - Scott Niedermayer (3rd, 1991), Scott Stevens (5th, 1982), Bill Guerin (5th, 1989), John MacLean (6th, 1983), Bobby Holik (10th, 1989)
1994: New York Rangers - Brian Leetch (9th, 1986)
1993: Montreal Canadiens - Kirk Muller (2nd, 1984), Brian Bellows (2nd, 1982), Vincent Damphousse (6th, 1986)
1992: Pittsburgh Penguins - Mario Lemieux (1st, 1984), Ron Francis (4th, 1981), Larry Murphy (4th, 1980), Tom Barasso (5th, 1983), Jaromir Jagr (5th, 1990)

The following players were all Top 10 picks in the draft, and all played an important part in winning the cup during those post-seasons. Note that there were more top 10 picks on all of these teams (Rob Niedermayer in 2007, for example).

If this doesn't show the importance of top 10 picks, I don't know what will...

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01-04-2008, 10:33 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stajan Fan View Post
If Gretzky can be traded, Sundin can be traded.
You forgot the part about Sundin having a No Trade Clause and his desire to retire a Leaf

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01-04-2008, 10:34 PM
  #57
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IMO getting a star via the draft is less important than building up your core of support players and giving them a chance to play together and get to know each other's games and as people. Once you have that, you get get the star via trade or free agency.

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01-04-2008, 10:44 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leftindust View Post
Just to add to this...

Let me remind everyone; The Goal of Hockey is to win the Stanley Cup.

So with that said, let's look at the last 15 Stanley Cup winners...

2007: Anaheim Ducks - Chris Pronger (2nd, 1993), Scott Niedermayer (3rd, 1991), Teemu Selanne (10th, 1988)
2006: Carolina Hurricanes - Eric Staal (2nd, 2003), Cory Stillman (6th, 1992), Rod Brind'Amour (9th, 1988)
2004: Tampa Bay Lightning - Vincent Lecavalier (1st, 1998), Cory Stillman (6th, 1992)
2003: New Jersey Devils - Scott Niedermayer (3rd, 1991), Scott Stevens (5th, 1982)
2002: Detroit Red Wings - Brendan Shanahan (2nd, 1987), Steve Yzerman (4th, 1983)
2001: Colorado Avalanche - Peter Forsberg (6th, 1991), Ray Bourque (8th, 1979)
2000: New Jersey Devils - Scott Niedermayer (3rd, 1991), Scott Stevens (5th, 1982), Jason Arnott (7th, 1993), Bobby Holik (10th, 1989)
1999: Dallas Stars - Mike Modano (1st, 1988), Darryl Sydor (7th, 1990), Derian Hatcher (8th, 1990)
1998: Detroit Red Wings - Brendan Shanahan (2nd, 1987), Steve Yzerman (4th, 1983), Larry Murphy (4th, 1980), Martin Lapointe (10th, 1991)
1997: Detroit Red Wings - Brendan Shanahan (2nd, 1987), Steve Yzerman (4th, 1983), Larry Murphy (4th, 1980), Martin Lapointe (10th, 1991)
1996: Colorado Avalanche - Mike Ricci (4th, 1990), Peter Forsberg (6th, 1991)
1995: New Jersey Devils - Scott Niedermayer (3rd, 1991), Scott Stevens (5th, 1982), Bill Guerin (5th, 1989), John MacLean (6th, 1983), Bobby Holik (10th, 1989)
1994: New York Rangers - Brian Leetch (9th, 1986)
1993: Montreal Canadiens - Kirk Muller (2nd, 1984), Brian Bellows (2nd, 1982), Vincent Damphousse (6th, 1986)
1992: Pittsburgh Penguins - Mario Lemieux (1st, 1984), Ron Francis (4th, 1981), Larry Murphy (4th, 1980), Tom Barasso (5th, 1983), Jaromir Jagr (5th, 1990)

The following players were all Top 10 picks in the draft, and all played an important part in winning the cup during those post-seasons. Note that there were more top 10 picks on all of these teams (Rob Niedermayer in 2007, for example).

If this doesn't show the importance of top 10 picks, I don't know what will...
Idea scammer

J/K. As I posted I fully agree with needing highly chosen young stars to be a part of a championship team. The only other way is to have your GM absolutely rip off AT LEAST 3 other GM's to stock pile your team somehow.

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01-04-2008, 10:47 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovetheleafs View Post
Idea scammer

J/K. As I posted I fully agree with needing highly chosen young stars to be a part of a championship team. The only other way is to have your GM absolutely rip off AT LEAST 3 other GM's to stock pile your team somehow.
Sorry, it took me a while to complete that post, and I started it before you had posted yours (thread was only 2 pages long when I started it actually).

Just more info to prove we NEED to rebuild.

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01-04-2008, 10:59 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leftindust View Post
Just to add to this...

Let me remind everyone; The Goal of Hockey is to win the Stanley Cup.

So with that said, let's look at the last 15 Stanley Cup winners...

2007: Anaheim Ducks - Chris Pronger (2nd, 1993), Scott Niedermayer (3rd, 1991), Teemu Selanne (10th, 1988)
2006: Carolina Hurricanes - Eric Staal (2nd, 2003), Cory Stillman (6th, 1992), Rod Brind'Amour (9th, 1988)
2004: Tampa Bay Lightning - Vincent Lecavalier (1st, 1998), Cory Stillman (6th, 1992)
2003: New Jersey Devils - Scott Niedermayer (3rd, 1991), Scott Stevens (5th, 1982)
2002: Detroit Red Wings - Brendan Shanahan (2nd, 1987), Steve Yzerman (4th, 1983)
2001: Colorado Avalanche - Peter Forsberg (6th, 1991), Ray Bourque (8th, 1979)
2000: New Jersey Devils - Scott Niedermayer (3rd, 1991), Scott Stevens (5th, 1982), Jason Arnott (7th, 1993), Bobby Holik (10th, 1989)
1999: Dallas Stars - Mike Modano (1st, 1988), Darryl Sydor (7th, 1990), Derian Hatcher (8th, 1990)
1998: Detroit Red Wings - Brendan Shanahan (2nd, 1987), Steve Yzerman (4th, 1983), Larry Murphy (4th, 1980), Martin Lapointe (10th, 1991)
1997: Detroit Red Wings - Brendan Shanahan (2nd, 1987), Steve Yzerman (4th, 1983), Larry Murphy (4th, 1980), Martin Lapointe (10th, 1991)
1996: Colorado Avalanche - Mike Ricci (4th, 1990), Peter Forsberg (6th, 1991)
1995: New Jersey Devils - Scott Niedermayer (3rd, 1991), Scott Stevens (5th, 1982), Bill Guerin (5th, 1989), John MacLean (6th, 1983), Bobby Holik (10th, 1989)
1994: New York Rangers - Brian Leetch (9th, 1986)
1993: Montreal Canadiens - Kirk Muller (2nd, 1984), Brian Bellows (2nd, 1982), Vincent Damphousse (6th, 1986)
1992: Pittsburgh Penguins - Mario Lemieux (1st, 1984), Ron Francis (4th, 1981), Larry Murphy (4th, 1980), Tom Barasso (5th, 1983), Jaromir Jagr (5th, 1990)

The following players were all Top 10 picks in the draft, and all played an important part in winning the cup during those post-seasons. Note that there were more top 10 picks on all of these teams (Rob Niedermayer in 2007, for example).

If this doesn't show the importance of top 10 picks, I don't know what will...
2008: Toronto Maple Leafs - Mats Sundin (1st, 1989), Chad Kilger (4th, 1995), Boyd Devereaux (6th, 1996), Mark Bell (8th, 1998), Nik Antropov (10th, 1998), and most importantly, Wade Belak (12th, 1994)

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01-04-2008, 11:00 PM
  #61
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I'd like to Support Tanking, but only if I knew it'd work.

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01-04-2008, 11:04 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asdf View Post
2008: Toronto Maple Leafs - Mats Sundin (1st, 1989), Chad Kilger (4th, 1995), Boyd Devereaux (6th, 1996), Mark Bell (8th, 1998), Nik Antropov (10th, 1998), and most importantly, Wade Belak (12th, 1994)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leftindust View Post
The following players were all Top 10 picks in the draft, and all played an important part in winning the cup during those post-seasons.
Forget the Cup, those guys can't help get us into the Playoffs...

I think what's most telling is when you compare Sundin and Antropov to the other teams listed.

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01-04-2008, 11:06 PM
  #63
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Sorry, it took me a while to complete that post, and I started it before you had posted yours (thread was only 2 pages long when I started it actually).

Just more info to prove we NEED to rebuild.
I know I was just ribbing you

It took me almost 20 minutes for my post

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01-04-2008, 11:08 PM
  #64
LTL
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HERE IS A BEAUTY OF A QUESTION:

When was the last time the leafs had a top 5 pick?

1989 3 C Scott Thornton


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01-04-2008, 11:10 PM
  #65
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Stamkos in a Leaf uniform. Seems to good to be true. But the day we draft him if we ever did, I'd put it up there as one of the greatest days in franchise history in the past 40 years for sure...

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01-04-2008, 11:16 PM
  #66
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Crazy part about the 80's was, as bad as the management was the leafs were actually drafting a damn good nucleus:

1982
24 R Gary Leeman
1983
7 R Russ Courtnall
1984
4 D Al Iafrate
1985
1 L Wendel Clark
1986
6 C Vincent Damphousse
1987
7 D Luke Richardson

THEN it came crashing down in the drafting department after this period

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01-04-2008, 11:20 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovetheleafs View Post
Crazy part about the 80's was, as bad as the management was the leafs were actually drafting a damn good nucleus:

1982
24 R Gary Leeman
1983
7 R Russ Courtnall
1984
4 D Al Iafrate
1985
1 L Wendel Clark
1986
6 C Vincent Damphousse
1987
7 D Luke Richardson

THEN it came crashing down in the drafting department after this period
The thing is and/or was, it seems that for every one gem the Leafs draft, there are 4 busts. One thing I have to admit though is JFJ has not done a bad job, he just needs to keep his damn picks. As dumb as he can be, I for some reason have faith that we will hold on to our pick. I just think even HE realizes how good this draft class is, or at least let's hope the scouting staff told while holding a gun to his head.

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01-04-2008, 11:22 PM
  #68
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Tanking is the way to go, but it hurts to see Sundin and Kaberle suffer on such a lousy team.

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01-04-2008, 11:24 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovetheleafs View Post
Crazy part about the 80's was, as bad as the management was the leafs were actually drafting a damn good nucleus:

1982
24 R Gary Leeman
1983
7 R Russ Courtnall
1984
4 D Al Iafrate
1985
1 L Wendel Clark
1986
6 C Vincent Damphousse
1987
7 D Luke Richardson

THEN it came crashing down in the drafting department after this period
Well, what's sad is the fact that these picks weren't even that great. I know hindsight is 20/20, but Neely went two picks after Courtnall, Iafrate could have been Gary Roberts, Damphousse could have been Brian Leetch a couple of picks later, and Luke Richardson was picked over Joe Sakic, the guy the Leafs really wanted, but Ballard vetoed because he wanted a dman.

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01-04-2008, 11:32 PM
  #70
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Count me in..and thank you for finally going out and actually creating this thread...and those who have gone out and backed up statistically that high draft picks DO make a difference thank you!

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01-04-2008, 11:35 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by SundintoSteen View Post
The thing is and/or was, it seems that for every one gem the Leafs draft, there are 4 busts. One thing I have to admit though is JFJ has not done a bad job, he just needs to keep his damn picks. As dumb as he can be, I for some reason have faith that we will hold on to our pick. I just think even HE realizes how good this draft class is, or at least let's hope the scouting staff told while holding a gun to his head.
Honestly I think some intervention from above would happen if Fergy tries to move that 1st rounder. I think we'll see a prospect go before a 1st rounder is moved. Who knows how high that pick will be come April.

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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Well, what's sad is the fact that these picks weren't even that great. I know hindsight is 20/20, but Neely went two picks after Courtnall, Iafrate could have been Gary Roberts, Damphousse could have been Brian Leetch a couple of picks later, and Luke Richardson was picked over Joe Sakic, the guy the Leafs really wanted, but Ballard vetoed because he wanted a dman.
Of course there were stars picked after the ones I posted but each one of those players had pretty decent success in the NHL. Leeman being the worst of the bunch BUT he did get 51 goals that one year in 89.

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01-04-2008, 11:38 PM
  #72
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Count me in..and thank you for finally going out and actually creating this thread...and those who have gone out and backed up statistically that high draft picks DO make a difference thank you!
Believe me it was a long time coming on this board. The battles that have happened on this exact issue have been endless. With Leftindust's and my post alone "the proof is in the pudding" as they say.

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01-04-2008, 11:38 PM
  #73
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I would think that pretty much any informed Leaf fan would be in favour of a rebuild. It is really a damn shame that Ferguson gave all those NTC's. Imagine being able to move McCabe, Tucker, Kubina and Sundin at the deadline with ease for a good amount of future picks and prospetcs. I love Sundin, but I think he should pull a Ray Bourque. He will command some serious trade value.

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01-04-2008, 11:40 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by fourofakindfowl View Post
I would think that pretty much any informed Leaf fan would be in favour of a rebuild. It is really a damn shame that Ferguson gave all those NTC's. Imagine being able to move McCabe, Tucker, Kubina and Sundin at the deadline with ease for a good amount of future picks and prospetcs. I love Sundin, but I think he should pull a Ray Bourque. He will command some serious trade value.
The sad part is he had the chance and didn't take it.

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01-04-2008, 11:44 PM
  #75
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We need to get Kilger his cup, Dammit!

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