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JD's one big mistake - backup goalie

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01-12-2008, 09:04 AM
  #1
execwrite
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JD's one big mistake - backup goalie

JD has done a fantastic job, but his one big mistake is, ironically, in goal.

Toivonen is not NHL ready. Struggled last year in Boston, doing the same here.

When you make a mistake, the only thing you can do is fix it.

What are the Blues options for a veteran backup? I read somewhere that Curtis Joseph is playing - how about him?

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=227049&hubname=

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01-12-2008, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by execwrite View Post
JD has done a fantastic job, but his one big mistake is, ironically, in goal.

Toivonen is not NHL ready. Struggled last year in Boston, doing the same here.

When you make a mistake, the only thing you can do is fix it.

What are the Blues options for a veteran backup? I read somewhere that Curtis Joseph is playing - how about him?

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=227049&hubname=
The only reason you would pick up a CuJo would be, if you were desperate with nothing and ready to give up on the season. I can think of 200 other goalies in NHL, AHL, and ECHL I would rather have than Joseph for a playoff run. In his prime, he wasn't the guy. Toivy had a bad game and so did the rest of the team. Two games readily stand out when the Blues D didn't show up Colorado and this one. Who was the victim in goal both games? Toivonen. What is his save pctg minus those two games?

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01-12-2008, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by PerryTurnbullfan View Post
The only reason you would pick up a CuJo would be, if you were desperate with nothing and ready to give up on the season. I can think of 200 other goalies in NHL, AHL, and ECHL I would rather have than Joseph for a playoff run. In his prime, he wasn't the guy. Toivy had a bad game and so did the rest of the team. Two games readily stand out when the Blues D didn't show up Colorado and this one. Who was the victim in goal both games? Toivonen. What is his save pctg minus those two games?

Name one.

Toivonen was not victim. He committed the crime of letting three goals go right through him. Not acceptable from an NHL goalie.

The backup goalie needs to be a veteran. Not a kid who rarely gets to play. Not fair to the kid.

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01-12-2008, 10:07 AM
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If Fleury comes back before the trade deadline, you can have Sabourin for additional cover, really cheap.


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01-12-2008, 10:08 AM
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Toivonen and maybe a 7th round pick
for
Soderberg and Bacashihua

Does anyone actually feel that Toivonen has been that much more steady than Cash to make these moves anywhere near equal.

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01-12-2008, 11:01 AM
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youd think with the very small amount of active threads on the blues board youd be able to determine if what you are posting is a repeat from 12 hours ago or not

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01-12-2008, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by execwrite View Post
The backup goalie needs to be a veteran. Not a kid who rarely gets to play. Not fair to the kid.
I agree ... but if you send Toivonen to Peoria, then he's splitting time with Schwarz. Is that necessarily good for either guy? Both of them need to play as much as possible, and I don't think there's an open spot in the AHL where some NHL team has next-to-nothing for goalie prospects and could use someone else's netminder.

CuJo is finished. Yes, he helped win the Spengler Cup - and so did Kirby Law and Yves Sarault. I'm not about to advocate we go get either of those guys to help improve scoring. Getting CuJo would be a purely sentimental move that might get fans to buy tickets so they could see Joseph sitting on the bench and maybe actually play a game - but a reliable backup? I don't think so.

The solution? Right now, the only option we have would be to swap Toivonen for Schwarz and let Hannu log some games in Peoria - but there's cap considerations in that; if the Blues are going to upgrade at the deadline, they need to consider if they can swap Hannu for Marek and still make the moves they want to make.

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01-12-2008, 11:09 AM
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Hey, y'all could have grabbed Patzold.

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01-12-2008, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Irish Blues View Post
I agree ... but if you send Toivonen to Peoria, then he's splitting time with Schwarz. Is that necessarily good for either guy? Both of them need to play as much as possible, and I don't think there's an open spot in the AHL where some NHL team has next-to-nothing for goalie prospects and could use someone else's netminder.

CuJo is finished. Yes, he helped win the Spengler Cup - and so did Kirby Law and Yves Sarault. I'm not about to advocate we go get either of those guys to help improve scoring. Getting CuJo would be a purely sentimental move that might get fans to buy tickets so they could see Joseph sitting on the bench and maybe actually play a game - but a reliable backup? I don't think so.

The solution? Right now, the only option we have would be to swap Toivonen for Schwarz and let Hannu log some games in Peoria - but there's cap considerations in that; if the Blues are going to upgrade at the deadline, they need to consider if they can swap Hannu for Marek and still make the moves they want to make.
You're probably right. Schwarz is the likely candidate, but there must be a veteran out there somewhere.

I don't really have a problem with Schwarz and Toivonen each playing 40 games in the AHL. That's plenty of work. Whichever kid sits in St. Louis is going to get a lot less work than that.

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01-12-2008, 01:11 PM
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The answer is, indeed, to swap Toivy for Schwarz for some games, and have Walmsly work intensely with the former.

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01-12-2008, 03:48 PM
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How about Yann Danis from Montreal?

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01-12-2008, 04:43 PM
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[QUOTE=execwrite;11999666]Name one.

QUOTE]

Like I said. Every goalie in the NHL, AHL, ECHL, powder puff, you name it. I would rather have them than Joseph. He is done. He is the last guy in hockey I want as a backup, if the game matters. I didn't see any goals go in from beyond the blue line. Let's leave Joseph in the past where his memories are good. If you want to bring up Schwarz and Toivonen still has options, then what could it hurt? Maybe Peoria will play for him. The Blues sure didn't. As little as he gets to play, he could probably use a conditioning assignment anyway.

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01-12-2008, 06:28 PM
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Man, and I though I'd gone off the deep-end with the Turek comparison....

Exec, dude, you're beyond the deep-end at this...seriously, Curtis Joseph?

Why not dig up the bones of Jacque Plante...at least he was an elite tender in his day....CuJo was never "elite".

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01-12-2008, 06:37 PM
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Cujo is in the same league as Turek; great during the regular season, choke when it matters. Remember that we are still rebuilding, we are not concerned about getting a "vet" to back up Manny, we are concerned about grooming his replacement (when he decides to hang em' up).

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01-12-2008, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by StLooFrenchy View Post
Cujo is in the same league as Turek; great during the regular season, choke when it matters. Remember that we are still rebuilding, we are not concerned about getting a "vet" to back up Manny, we are concerned about grooming his replacement (when he decides to hang em' up).
I'm still advocating the "dig up Plante" strategy.

It's solid.

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01-12-2008, 06:55 PM
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I'm still advocating the "dig up Plante" strategy.

It's solid.
I do like your plan, but why stop there? Somebody must know where Glenn Hall is buried.

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01-12-2008, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by BluesDarb View Post
Man, and I though I'd gone off the deep-end with the Turek comparison....

Exec, dude, you're beyond the deep-end at this...seriously, Curtis Joseph?

Why not dig up the bones of Jacque Plante...at least he was an elite tender in his day....CuJo was never "elite".
My firiend - there are seven NHL teams that disagree with you. I guess you know better than they do.

------------------


Leafs, Rangers inquire on CuJo's return


Curtis Joseph

Darren Dreger
1/12/2008 6:03:58 PM
Sources tell TSN both the Toronto Maple Leafs and New York Rangers have made last minute inquiries into Curtis Joseph's plan to return to the NHL.

On Friday, sources said Joseph had narrowed the field to two teams, the Calgary Flames and the San Jose Sharks. However, late calls from the two Eastern Conference clubs has slowed the 40 year olds decision as to where he intends to resume his career but he's expected to make his decision in the next two days.

Its believed Flames coach Mike Keenan reached out to Joseph this week to acknowledge the checkered past between he and Joseph was just that, the past.

Similar to the Flames, the San Jose Sharks are looking for insurance, a veteran presence to take some of the heat off starting goaltender Evgeni Nabokov, the only NHL goalie to start every game this season.

Sources say Tampa Bay, Pittsburgh and Ottawa also expressed interest in Joseph, with the Senators a highly attractive fit for the veteran. However, sources say the Senators have not been willing to make a play and unless they come in at the last minute, Joseph will be heading west.

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01-12-2008, 07:02 PM
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I fail to see what any of that has to do with the Blues..

The Flames are trying to make a serious move in the postseason, so are the Sharks.

The Leafs are just clueless on what to do to stop their slide.

The Sens, that just doesn't make sense.

The Rangers are insane if they think that Joseph is a better fit in net for them than Henrik.

Edmonton is a cellar-dweller and just don't know what to do.

Pittsburgh makes no sense, unless they think Fleury isn't going to be healthy at all the rest of the year....Tampa is mired in hockey-hell and way worse off than the Blues in net.

None of the teams mentioned are in a similar position to the Blues.

What does that prove?

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01-12-2008, 07:48 PM
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Cujo could'nt win the prize in the Red Wing sweater. Osgood did.

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01-12-2008, 07:58 PM
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Doesn't Toivonen have to clear waivers to be sent down on anything more than a conditioning stint?

using: http://www.nhlscap.com/waivers.htm

Quote:
Hannu Toivonen signed an entry-level contract in 2003 at the age of 19, meaning he was exempt from waivers for 5 years. Going into the 2007-08 season, he has only played in 38 games and is in his 5th season, meaning he is exempt from waivers until either the end of the 2007-08 season or he plays in 42 NHL games [whichever comes first]; he will not be exempt from waivers in 2008-09
He's currently played 52 games so doesn't that mean he's gotta clear waivers?

http://www.forecaster.ca/hockeynews/...layer.cgi?3098

Quote:
TOTAL GP
NHL 52


Last edited by WalterSobchak: 01-12-2008 at 08:09 PM.
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01-12-2008, 08:03 PM
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BluesDarb
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Originally Posted by ZaphodBeeblebrox View Post
Doesn't Toivonen have to clear waivers to be sent down on anything more than a conditioning stint?
That's the question I'd like answered...I think Hannu could benefit from a stretch of starts....and maybe being up with the big club would benefit Marek...getting to practice up with the 'big boys' could be a confidence builder.

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01-12-2008, 08:47 PM
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execwrite
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Originally Posted by BluesDarb View Post
I fail to see what any of that has to do with the Blues..

The Flames are trying to make a serious move in the postseason, so are the Sharks.

The Leafs are just clueless on what to do to stop their slide.

The Sens, that just doesn't make sense.

The Rangers are insane if they think that Joseph is a better fit in net for them than Henrik.

Edmonton is a cellar-dweller and just don't know what to do.

Pittsburgh makes no sense, unless they think Fleury isn't going to be healthy at all the rest of the year....Tampa is mired in hockey-hell and way worse off than the Blues in net.

None of the teams mentioned are in a similar position to the Blues.

What does that prove?
You understand all these teams are interested in Joseph as a backup, just like the Blues would be, right?

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01-12-2008, 09:09 PM
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Yeah, but they mentioned the reason in the article as been Lundqvist's recent struggles.

That implies that they'd at least initially be using Cujo probably every third or fourth start.

That's more than a backup. Now, if they had listed their backup's struggles as the reason, then it would be a strickly 'backup' role.

You don't look for a different person to ride the bench after mentioning your starter's troubles. You look for someone who can get in and play a fair amount, to take pressure off your starter.

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01-12-2008, 09:34 PM
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Another one of these threads?

Slumping forward/defenseman = Trade ASAP
Losing streaks = rebuild again
and just now: Goalie has 1 or more bad starts in a row = not NHL quality/ get CuJo


The team is playing really good hockey, and most of the problems are solving themselves. Patience worked earlier this season, and will work by the end of the season. Just sit back, and relax. If this is JD's only "mistake" then we're in good hands.

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01-12-2008, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluesDarb View Post
Man, and I though I'd gone off the deep-end with the Turek comparison....

Exec, dude, you're beyond the deep-end at this...seriously, Curtis Joseph?

Why not dig up the bones of Jacque Plante...at least he was an elite tender in his day....CuJo was never "elite".
**** that he wasnt, he's played for one good team in his career and he still mananges to do well. look at his sv percentage and then think about how ****** his D was in 90% of those seasons, he would absolutely be an upgrade, he would be a valuable veteran in the dressing room, and he still can steal a game like he did when he was elite. having said that he probably wont sign with the blues becuase he'll want to play for a contender

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