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Old
01-14-2008, 11:23 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Okay, so I'm sitting here watching the Pens hand us our butts in the first period and it got me to thinking...

I watch Crosby (and to a slightly lesser extent Malkin) and realize that he's simply in another league vis-a-vis anyone we have, both in terms of talent and physical abilities (i.e. strength & speed). Have the Rangers EVER had such a player (never mind two of them)? I mean, seriously, I've been a fan since the early 80s and I can't remember the team ever having a player that was hands down dominant the way that Crosby is.

I guess Leetch came close for a couple of years, but you're still talking about a guy who was maybe in the top ten and could on occasion take over a period, not a dominant consistant gamebreaker the way Crosby is. Even at Brian's height there were other defensemen such as Bourque, Coffey, MacInnis and Stevens that were arguably as good. You could make a case for perhaps Jags' first year after the lockout but you're talking about (what looks like) the last great year for a guy who's now in decline and whose true greatness occurred elsewhere. Even Mess had his most dominant years in Edmonton and really had more impact with the way he lifted the team than the way he dominated games personally.

Am I missing someone? Have we ever had a truly dominant player? Dammit, it's our turn! I want our Gretzky/Lemieux/Richard/Orr. Heck, I'll settle for our Ovechkin/Bure/Yzerman! (And no, Pavel's brief injury-riddled tenure doesn't count, fun as it was for the first 30 games or so...)
But, you HAD Gretzky!!! And dont give me the "we had Gretzky later on" thing, he was still friggin GRETZKY lol!!!

The Rangers have had a lot of huge star players. Unfortunately for them, building a team around those guys didnt always work. You cant fairly discount guys like Leech because there was also Bourque, Coffey, MacInnis and Stevens unless youre going to discount Crosby because theres also Ovechkin, Malkin, Lecavalier, etc. Same kind of thing... and if you notice, building a team around all of them isnt always working out, either.

Hey, at least you had them... the biggest stars the Islanders have had in the last fifteen years or so (besides the piles of rookies and young players that became stars after leaving) were Yashin and maybe Smyth. One of them we bought out, and the other was here for a few months. Other than that, all there is left is- Rick!

You have two guys NOW that are pretty much guaranteed HOFers. Some teams dont have that. My team doesnt have that.

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01-14-2008, 11:29 PM
  #27
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Who needs Crobsy when we have Prucha?

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01-15-2008, 12:31 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Vatchern View Post
We will have our time of a young star within cherepanov. you just wait.

This seems like a stretch. To assume he'll be anywhere near the type of "star" people are talking about in this thread is wishful thinking at best. I think he'll be a good offensive player for this team. But I think star is going a little overboard at this point.

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01-15-2008, 01:12 AM
  #29
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Cherepanov definitely has the potential to be a star, his talent is tremendous. I think you're vastly underrating him, robruckus.

If anything, I feel he'll definitely be a 1st line talent. 30-40 goals? 70-80 points? The kid's combo of talent and potential is exceptional.

There's a reason why he was pegged by as a sure-fire top-5 draft pick last year by nearly everyone, and everyone was in complete shock when he fell out of the top-10.

Some places even had him as the #1 overall pick. I thought Patrick Kane/Kyle Turris all of the way, but Cherepanov definitely could have been a #3.

I can't wait for this kid to come up.

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01-15-2008, 01:16 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
Cherepanov definitely has the potential to be a star, his talent is tremendous. I think you're vastly underrating him, robruckus.

If anything, I feel he'll definitely be a 1st line talent. 30-40 goals? 70-80 points? The kid's combo of talent and potential is exceptional.

There's a reason why he was pegged by as a sure-fire top-5 draft pick last year by nearly everyone, and everyone was in complete shock when he fell out of the top-10.

Some places even had him as the #1 overall pick. I thought Patrick Kane/Kyle Turris all of the way, but Cherepanov definitely could have been a #3.

I can't wait for this kid to come up.

I'll take your word for it as I haven't seen him on a consistent basis. What I have seen has been extremely good. I just think those are lofty expectations. I guess I feel like if the Rangers weren't worried about the transfer deal why were the other dozen teams that picked before us if this kid was so good?

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01-15-2008, 01:38 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
I'll take your word for it as I haven't seen him on a consistent basis. What I have seen has been extremely good. I just think those are lofty expectations. I guess I feel like if the Rangers weren't worried about the transfer deal why were the other dozen teams that picked before us if this kid was so good?
I agreed with you earlier in the year but after watching this kid on a consistent basis, he is going to be a star. Now I know that's a high stretched opinion, but he probably will be.

He's first line NHL material, he won't put up Crosby numbers but he can dabble with 75 points a year or just around a PPG player I'd say. His moves are pretty stunning, he should get a lot stronger and work on defense a little bit, so when he comes over here he'll surely be ready and he can step right in and make an impact.

The coming years are really smiling years for Ranger fans when you think of our promising prospects almost ready to arrive, granted we don't have eye popping ones, but from what we've seen from Cherry, Anisimov, and Sangs... this could be a sign of things to come.

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01-15-2008, 05:08 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by TheMetalChick View Post
But, you HAD Gretzky!!! And dont give me the "we had Gretzky later on" thing, he was still friggin GRETZKY lol!!!

The Rangers have had a lot of huge star players. Unfortunately for them, building a team around those guys didnt always work. You cant fairly discount guys like Leech because there was also Bourque, Coffey, MacInnis and Stevens unless youre going to discount Crosby because theres also Ovechkin, Malkin, Lecavalier, etc. Same kind of thing... and if you notice, building a team around all of them isnt always working out, either.

Hey, at least you had them... the biggest stars the Islanders have had in the last fifteen years or so (besides the piles of rookies and young players that became stars after leaving) were Yashin and maybe Smyth. One of them we bought out, and the other was here for a few months. Other than that, all there is left is- Rick!

You have two guys NOW that are pretty much guaranteed HOFers. Some teams dont have that. My team doesnt have that.
C'mon now. Saying that you haven't had that player either doesn't discount my point. And, no, a couple of good, but not great 90 point seasons out of Gretzky doesn't count. Nor do the Espo or Dionne seasons waaaaay past their prime.

And, by the way, you HAVE had that player. I'm guessing you've got to be younger than 35, because otherwise you'd recall a team with Mike "If I'd been a Ranger, I would've surpassed the current team record for goals in a season 6 times in my career" Bossy that won the Stanley Cup 4 years in a row. Sure, your recent drought is no doubt frustrating, but at least you had that guy ONCE. My team is 82 years old and has never had that guy.

And while I'm at it, Trottier wasn't that far removed from elite status himself - and you had your own Leetch in a guy by the name of Dennis Potvin. (No wonder they won 4 in a row...)


Last edited by BrooklynRangersFan: 01-15-2008 at 05:33 AM.
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Old
01-15-2008, 09:23 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by ZYanksRule View Post
Crosby is absolutely unreal. I really love watching him and malkin together; they are just incredibly fun to watch.
Agreed. Despite the loss last night, it was still fun to watch Crosby skate circles around our d-men.

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01-15-2008, 09:49 AM
  #34
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The Pens are one example, but how about two other teams - Ottawa and Detroit. Show me the top five draft pick either of those teams earned by "sucking". They got Spezza thanks to a foolhardy deal by Milbury, Heatley for Hossa, who himself wasn't a top ten pick, and Alfredsson was a 6th round pick. Actually Chris Phillips was #1 overall in 1996, but, frankly, he's not exactly the scintillating tlaent we're dsicussing here. Same goes for Redden.

And, Detroit...remind me where Datsyuk and Zetterberg were drafted?

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01-15-2008, 11:23 AM
  #35
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Isles sucked from their beginning, but steadily took them 5-7 years to build that team into a dynasty.

Then the Pens & Devs both sucked for many years, got them players like Lemieux/Jagr & Niedermayer/Shanahan(turned into Stevens).

Detroit & early 90's Philly sucked reeally really badly. Both teams ended up with numerous top 10 picks. Philly won the Lindros sweepstakes.

Minnesota/Dallas was horrible , bottom of the league until they got a #1 overall named Modano.

Quebec was a joke in the late 80's, then they seem to be picking top 5 for 5 years straight. Lindros turned into Forsberg and other valuable players.

Carolina & Tampa Bay spent alot of time in the cellar towards the late 90's, again, giving them multiple top picks.


Almost every team that has won the cup and stayed legit contenders has been helped by years of bad/awful play. Why are we not in this mix? Cause we tried to buy ourselves out of the bottom for years on end, giving us just enough talent to not be bottom dwellers, but also not make the playoffs.

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01-15-2008, 11:25 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Almost every team that has won the cup and stayed legit contenders has been helped by years of bad/awful play. Why are we not in this mix? Cause we tried to buy ourselves out of the bottom for years on end, giving us just enough talent to not be bottom dwellers, but also not make the playoffs.
Nail + head.

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01-15-2008, 03:06 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Okay, so I'm sitting here watching the Pens hand us our butts in the first period and it got me to thinking...

I watch Crosby (and to a slightly lesser extent Malkin) and realize that he's simply in another league vis-a-vis anyone we have, both in terms of talent and physical abilities (i.e. strength & speed). Have the Rangers EVER had such a player (never mind two of them)? I mean, seriously, I've been a fan since the early 80s and I can't remember the team ever having a player that was hands down dominant the way that Crosby is.

I guess Leetch came close for a couple of years, but you're still talking about a guy who was maybe in the top ten and could on occasion take over a period, not a dominant consistant gamebreaker the way Crosby is. Even at Brian's height there were other defensemen such as Bourque, Coffey, MacInnis and Stevens that were arguably as good. You could make a case for perhaps Jags' first year after the lockout but you're talking about (what looks like) the last great year for a guy who's now in decline and whose true greatness occurred elsewhere. Even Mess had his most dominant years in Edmonton and really had more impact with the way he lifted the team than the way he dominated games personally.

Am I missing someone? Have we ever had a truly dominant player? Dammit, it's our turn! I want our Gretzky/Lemieux/Richard/Orr. Heck, I'll settle for our Ovechkin/Bure/Yzerman! (And no, Pavel's brief injury-riddled tenure doesn't count, fun as it was for the first 30 games or so...)
Thats whats happens when the NHL rigs a behind closed doors lottery.. Pretty much saving the Penguins..

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01-15-2008, 04:04 PM
  #38
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the Penguins got those two players because they were the laughing stock of the NHL. How many last place finishes did they have? Do you really want the Rangers to go through that to get those players? I'm a Devils fan, and I think in order for the Rangers to get better is to copy what the Devils have done, build within. Don't sign other teams top players who add no team chemistry.
Why do you people seem to think the Pens were worst in the league SEVERAL years? Hell, we were in the playoffs for ten plus years straight while the Rangers were buying everything and still coming up short. And a Devils fan to say this, you have been able to hold your position in this division because and only because of Martin Brodeur. We were worst in the league ONCE during that time period. Did we get high picks? Yes. Are they helping the Pens do what they have been able to do the last few years .... yes, that's what they are supposed to do.

The Devils have been able to build from within, as you say, because hey have always had the better goaltender and there hasn't been any change in that for over a decade plus. So while everyone else has had to dip into free agency or give up picks or prospects to get that goaltender, the Devils have had that luxury of doing everything else.

Just wait until Brodeur retires ....... hell, do you know right now who would be next in line as Devil's goalie?

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01-15-2008, 04:12 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by BatonRougePen25 View Post
Why do you people seem to think the Pens were worst in the league SEVERAL years? Hell, we were in the playoffs for ten plus years straight while the Rangers were buying everything and still coming up short
Pens had the #5 pick in '02 & the #1 or 2 overall pick the next 4 years, yeah you guys sucked for several years, whats the problem?

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01-15-2008, 04:31 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Pens had the #5 pick in '02 & the #1 or 2 overall pick the next 4 years, yeah you guys sucked for several years, whats the problem?
Never mind the fact that the Crosby lottery was NOT the most fair way to handle it - there should have been some consideration to how teams finished in the years leading up to the lockout.

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01-15-2008, 04:37 PM
  #41
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Never mind the fact that the Crosby lottery was NOT the most fair way to handle it - there should have been some consideration to how teams finished in the years leading up to the lockout.
Yeah I screamed that on these boards back then

Not that i'm biased, I wouldve been happy if Chicago landed Sid.

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