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Joe Sakic vs Valery Kharlamov

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01-15-2008, 07:43 PM
  #1
Hawkman
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Joe Sakic vs Valery Kharlamov

1. Who was better and why? 2. If they had both played in the NHL, who would have been a better NHL player and why? 3. Who would you take first in a fantasy hockey draft and why? Kharmalov - "He was fast and so hard to defend against out there. I admired the way he kept everyone on their toes. He was simply outstanding." -Don Awrey, Team Canada ‘72


Last edited by Hawkman: 01-16-2008 at 02:10 AM.
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01-16-2008, 02:07 AM
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38 views and no posts!

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01-16-2008, 03:40 AM
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Nalyd Psycho
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Way too hard to say mainly because they are too different. If you ever get a chance, watch some Kharlamov, Youtube has some clips. He's silk. possibly the most beautiful player ever. While Sakic is the type of guy you don't realize just dominated a game. For skill forwards, they are about as different as you can get.

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01-16-2008, 05:04 AM
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This is very hard to compare. Kharlamov was a beauty on skates and could probably outdangle everyone at that time. But he is definitely not as effective as Sakic. If someone put a gun on my chest I would probably take Sakic, but if you take a linemate into that equation and pick Mikhailov next to Kharlamov I probably take Kharlamov. Very hard for me.

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01-16-2008, 03:13 PM
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Big Phil
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Overall you'd have to take Sakic. Kharlamov was a beautiful player but we never saw him in an 82 game NHL schedule. Could he have won the Hart, the Conn Smythe, two Cups and led the playoffs twice in points? I dont know, but Sakic did. Now we cant penalize him because he wasnt allowed to be in the NHL but an assumption would be that he'd be much like Fedorov. Smooth, fast, effective. That's my comparison to be honest.

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01-16-2008, 03:46 PM
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IMO:
Kharlamov before first car accident in 1976 >> Fedorov
Kharlamov after 1976 = Fedorov

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01-17-2008, 01:34 AM
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Fredrik_71
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A question; Would you pick Sakic over Gretzky?

For the rest of the world oustside of north america thats what you do if you pick Sakic over Kharlamov

/Cheers...

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01-17-2008, 07:15 AM
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How can anyone pick Sakic over Kharlamov ? You dont need to be a russian/russian hockey fan to pick Kharlamov .....

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01-17-2008, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FredrikFromSweden View Post
For the rest of the world oustside of north america thats what you do if you pick Sakic over Kharlamov
It's true. But most people here are from North America :-)
Anyway, IMO Kharlamov was better player than Sakic. And I saw enough of both. Kharlamov is on Hull-LaFleur-Bossy level.

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01-17-2008, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FredrikFromSweden View Post
A question; Would you pick Sakic over Gretzky?

For the rest of the world oustside of north america thats what you do if you pick Sakic over Kharlamov

/Cheers...
Except Gretzky was better than Kharlamov, and thus your analogy is invalid.

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01-17-2008, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PuckGuy0218 View Post
Except Gretzky was better than Kharlamov, and thus your analogy is invalid.
In NHL.

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01-17-2008, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avy View Post
In NHL.
And even internationally.

Kharlamov, as impressive as he was in the 1972 Summit Series, never ripped teams apart on the international stage the way Gretzky did in his prime. Prior to the 1996 World Cup, Gretzky won the scoring title every international tournament that he ever played in. And who could forget Gretzky's 21 points in a mere 9 games at the 1987 Canada Cup?

Besides, you say "in the NHL". Well, isn't that kind of a big deal? The NHL, during both players careers, was by the far the best league in the world. And Gretzky dominated the NHL far more than Kharlamov dominated the Russian league. This is even more impressive considering the NHL had a lot more parity than the Russian league, and thus Gretzky actually had to play against good teams more often than not. In contrast, Kharlamov got to take his stacked CSKA team, where pretty much the best 20 players in the entire Russian league were stacked on one team, and play against outmatched opponents every single game.

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01-17-2008, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PuckGuy0218 View Post
Besides, you say "in the NHL". Well, isn't that kind of a big deal? The NHL, during both players careers, was by the far the best league in the world.
It's a typical North American arrogance.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PuckGuy0218 View Post
In contrast, Kharlamov got to take his stacked CSKA team, where pretty much the best 20 players in the entire Russian league were stacked on one team, and play against outmatched opponents every single game.
It's simply not true, especially in the 70-ties when Kharlamov was playing. For example, you can take Russian players from Summit Series 72 and from Challenge Cup 79 and check their club teams.
CSKA really got stacked from the beginning of the 80-ties (under Tikhonov). Before that, it was similar let's say to Montreal dynasty years.

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01-17-2008, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reks View Post
It's true. But most people here are from North America :-)
Anyway, IMO Kharlamov was better player than Sakic. And I saw enough of both. Kharlamov is on Hull-LaFleur-Bossy level.
Well, maybe on the Bossy level

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01-17-2008, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pappyline View Post
Well, maybe on the Bossy level
Well, my detailed comparison of that group would go like that

Kharlamov = LaFleur (of course, Lafleur is RW, while Kharlamov is LW) >= Bossy >= Makarov



Honestly, I saw not enough of Hull to have a precise position for him in this ranking but probably

Hull = Kharlamov, Lafleur


Last edited by Reks: 01-17-2008 at 08:36 AM.
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01-17-2008, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PuckGuy0218 View Post
Except Gretzky was better than Kharlamov, and thus your analogy is invalid.
Yeah, you are probably right. But Kharlamov brings the same feelings to many europeans as Gretzky to you. Its more than points in the equation and who knows what had happen if Kharlamov played in the NHL. As Gretzky he could lift a team to new hights.

My father can't stop speaking about Kharlamov and has made me watch a lot of games with him. I was a Gretzky fan during my younger years and my father went crazy about it. My problem with Gretzky today is that when I look at a game with him NOBODY on the ice dares to tackle him. Whats up with that? You look sideways at Gretzky and you get a goon chasing you for the rest of the season, from EVERY other canadian team in the NHL!

Buts thats another thread

/Cheers...

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01-17-2008, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reks View Post
Well, my detailed comparison of that group would go like that

Kharlamov = LaFleur (of course, Lafleur is RW, while Kharlamov is LW) >= Bossy >= Makarov



Honestly, I saw not enough of Hull to have a precise position for him in this ranking but probably

Hull = Kharlamov, Lafleur
I have seen all three. It is definitely:

Hull (Bobby) >Kharlamov, Lafleur

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01-17-2008, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pappyline View Post
I have seen all three. It is definitely:

Hull (Bobby) >Kharlamov, Lafleur
To really appreciate Kharlamov one needs to see USSR vs Czech Republic games in the 70-ties. Almost each of them was a real war on the ice.

But I respect your opinion, of course. Have you ever had a chance to see Firsov?

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01-17-2008, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FredrikFromSweden View Post
My problem with Gretzky today is that when I look at a game with him NOBODY on the ice dares to tackle him.
Contrary to that, Kharlamov was always a special target for almost all NHL teams:
72 - Bobby Clarke
74 - Rick Ley
76 - Van Impe

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01-17-2008, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PuckGuy0218 View Post
And even internationally.

Kharlamov, as impressive as he was in the 1972 Summit Series, never ripped teams apart on the international stage the way Gretzky did in his prime. Prior to the 1996 World Cup, Gretzky won the scoring title every international tournament that he ever played in. And who could forget Gretzky's 21 points in a mere 9 games at the 1987 Canada Cup?

Besides, you say "in the NHL". Well, isn't that kind of a big deal? The NHL, during both players careers, was by the far the best league in the world. And Gretzky dominated the NHL far more than Kharlamov dominated the Russian league. This is even more impressive considering the NHL had a lot more parity than the Russian league, and thus Gretzky actually had to play against good teams more often than not. In contrast, Kharlamov got to take his stacked CSKA team, where pretty much the best 20 players in the entire Russian league were stacked on one team, and play against outmatched opponents every single game.
You have a little problem - in Russia best player not always best on scoresheet. Mikhailov, Firsov, Maltsev have better international resume (better than Gretzky), he was best scorer in Russia only one year... yet he considered as arguable the best, most talented russian player ever. Kharlamov is Orr of russian hockey if you want.

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01-17-2008, 09:10 AM
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A good North American comparison for Kharlamov is probably Rocket Richard. They're similar not neccessarily in terms of style of play but overall impact they had on the ice. In addition, they share the same 'reverence' certain fans have for them.

Gretzky>Kharlamov
Richard=Kharlamov
Sakic<Kharlamov

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01-17-2008, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reks View Post
To really appreciate Kharlamov one needs to see USSR vs Czech Republic games in the 70-ties. Almost each of them was a real war on the ice.

But I respect your opinion, of course. Have you ever had a chance to see Firsov?
To my regret, I never had a chance to see Firsov but I understand he was something special.

You obviously saw a lot more of Kharlomov than I did but I saw a lot more of Hull than you did. When they went head to head in the 74 summit, IMO, Hull was the superior player.

Just so you know, I have Hull in my all time top 5, Not too far off the usual top 4. The more I learn about Kharlomov, I lean more & more to him as a top 10 all time.

It is all opinion anyway. You have yours & I have mine. There are no right or wrong answers here.

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01-17-2008, 09:34 AM
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Well, I have never seen Firsov's play either.
Sometime ago I created a thread Bobby Hull vs Anatoly Firsov on this board. I hoped that somebody would direct me to any footage of him in the Internet. No luck so far ...

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01-17-2008, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Reks View Post
Well, I have never seen Firsov's play either.
Sometime ago I created a thread Bobby Hull vs Anatoly Firsov on this board. I hoped that somebody would direct me to any footage of him in the Internet. No luck so far ...
I saw Firsov play a few times when I was a child and he was dominating. But it was always against Canadian amateur teams, so it's difficult to say how good he really was. It's too bad he didn't play in '72. Or Hull and Orr. It would have been something to see.

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01-17-2008, 12:38 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FredrikFromSweden View Post
Yeah, you are probably right. But Kharlamov brings the same feelings to many europeans as Gretzky to you. Its more than points in the equation and who knows what had happen if Kharlamov played in the NHL. As Gretzky he could lift a team to new hights.

My father can't stop speaking about Kharlamov and has made me watch a lot of games with him. I was a Gretzky fan during my younger years and my father went crazy about it. My problem with Gretzky today is that when I look at a game with him NOBODY on the ice dares to tackle him. Whats up with that? You look sideways at Gretzky and you get a goon chasing you for the rest of the season, from EVERY other canadian team in the NHL!

Buts thats another thread

/Cheers...
By tackling do you literally mean tackle or do you mean checking him?

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