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Which is the Better Moment: The Miracle on Ice or the 1972 Summit Series?

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Old
01-17-2008, 07:24 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by RedWingsGuy80 View Post
Well, I guess I've always been confused right off the bat as to why a magazine that is $3.99 in the U.S. is $6.99 in Canada and why things like a gallon a milk are a couple bucks more in Canada than in the U.S. I've never understood the whole thing as to why things have to be more expensive in Canada like that.

Do I feel that the U.S. is the only country that exists? I'll admit...absolutely...at times. I'm not saying all the time, but do I get that mentality sometimes? Absolutely! I mean, think about it. Did Neil Diamond ever sing a song called "Coming to Canada"? Were corporations like McDonald's and Nike founded in Canada? Aside from inventing hockey (although, I'll admit, that is a HUGE contribution) Canada just simply has NO historical value to me at all. What has Canada ever done for me? Is it Canada's troops over in Iraq and Afghanistan fighting for my freedom? No, unfortunately Canada could give a crap about my freedom as an American. Is it Canada's economy that allows me to have a job? Again, unfortunately the Canadian government could care less if I were sitting at home unemployed right now. So, I guess that's why it's so hard for me to respect something like the 1972 Summit Series. Because quite simply put, Paul Henderson is of no historic importance to me. None at all. His goal in the final game of that series means absolutely nothing to me. Why should it? Was it going to impact my life 8 years later when I was born? But was Mike Eruzione and Team USA's victory in Lake Placid, just 3 months before I was born, going to have an impact on my life? You darn right it was going to! I guess that's my biggest thing. I will admit, all but one of the times that I've been to Canada, everyone has been very kind and nice to me (with the exception of Vancouver, where everyone was just so mean to me). But aside from that, I guess I just can't bring myself to have respect for a country that hasn't done anything for me. And that's why I can't respect that goal that Henderson scored. It just simply means nothing to me. What did it do for my country and for my future? Nothing at all.

And again, like I mentioned, we (the U.S.) spit on Russia's dinner table when they invited us over for dinner, so they're never inviting us back over again. You guys (Canada) will ALWAYS be welcome ANYTIME until you spit on their dinner table. But until you do, you're golden.
A little advice. Stop it. You're embarrassing yourself.

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01-17-2008, 08:27 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by RedWingsGuy80 View Post
Well, I guess I've always been confused right off the bat as to why a magazine that is $3.99 in the U.S. is $6.99 in Canada and why things like a gallon a milk are a couple bucks more in Canada than in the U.S. I've never understood the whole thing as to why things have to be more expensive in Canada like that.

Do I feel that the U.S. is the only country that exists? I'll admit...absolutely...at times. I'm not saying all the time, but do I get that mentality sometimes? Absolutely! I mean, think about it. Did Neil Diamond ever sing a song called "Coming to Canada"? Were corporations like McDonald's and Nike founded in Canada? Aside from inventing hockey (although, I'll admit, that is a HUGE contribution) Canada just simply has NO historical value to me at all. What has Canada ever done for me? Is it Canada's troops over in Iraq and Afghanistan fighting for my freedom? No, unfortunately Canada could give a crap about my freedom as an American. Is it Canada's economy that allows me to have a job? Again, unfortunately the Canadian government could care less if I were sitting at home unemployed right now. So, I guess that's why it's so hard for me to respect something like the 1972 Summit Series. Because quite simply put, Paul Henderson is of no historic importance to me. None at all. His goal in the final game of that series means absolutely nothing to me. Why should it? Was it going to impact my life 8 years later when I was born? But was Mike Eruzione and Team USA's victory in Lake Placid, just 3 months before I was born, going to have an impact on my life? You darn right it was going to! I guess that's my biggest thing. I will admit, all but one of the times that I've been to Canada, everyone has been very kind and nice to me (with the exception of Vancouver, where everyone was just so mean to me). But aside from that, I guess I just can't bring myself to have respect for a country that hasn't done anything for me. And that's why I can't respect that goal that Henderson scored. It just simply means nothing to me. What did it do for my country and for my future? Nothing at all.

And again, like I mentioned, we (the U.S.) spit on Russia's dinner table when they invited us over for dinner, so they're never inviting us back over again. You guys (Canada) will ALWAYS be welcome ANYTIME until you spit on their dinner table. But until you do, you're golden.
I wish our signatures were allowed to be this big.



Friends! <3 I'm told there was no spitting during or after the dinner, in fact Georgey licked his plate clean.


Last edited by Garbs: 01-17-2008 at 08:37 AM.
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Old
01-17-2008, 09:00 AM
  #53
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[QUOTE=The Muffin Stud;12068818]Uh, currency exchange has nothing to do with determining what is democracy or communism nor does it determind if a country is "messed". Our dollar is curently very close to yours in value and the cost of items are closer to one another.




No. I will admit, American artist Neil Diamond has not written songs about Canada. However, Canadian musicians such as Stompin' Tom and The Guess Who certainly have. What is your point?



Are you joking? I pray to God you are. That comment alone proves how dimwitted you actually are. Read a newspaper buddy.

So, you HONESTLY, WHOLE-HEARTEDLY believe that right now, somewhere in an Afghani or Iraqi desert, there is a Canadian army fighting to try to destroy Osama Bin Laden and get vengeance for what happened on September 11, 2001? How can you sit here and tell me that a single canadian even gives a crap about how New York City nearly got blown to smithereens on that day? It wasn't Montreal that got hit! It wasn't CN tower that got hit! It was New York City, so why would you guys care?

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01-17-2008, 09:54 AM
  #54
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[QUOTE=RedWingsGuy80;12070693]
Quote:
So, you HONESTLY, WHOLE-HEARTEDLY believe that right now, somewhere in an Afghani or Iraqi desert, there is a Canadian army fighting to try to destroy Osama Bin Laden and get vengeance for what happened on September 11, 2001?

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/st...d-ca5c4993301d

One more time. Please stop.

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01-17-2008, 10:06 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by RedWingsGuy80 View Post

So, you HONESTLY, WHOLE-HEARTEDLY believe that right now, somewhere in an Afghani or Iraqi desert, there is a Canadian army fighting to try to destroy Osama Bin Laden and get vengeance for what happened on September 11, 2001? How can you sit here and tell me that a single canadian even gives a crap about how New York City nearly got blown to smithereens on that day? It wasn't Montreal that got hit! It wasn't CN tower that got hit! It was New York City, so why would you guys care?
What are you doing? How can you be 27 years old and so ignorant?

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01-17-2008, 10:12 AM
  #56
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[QUOTE=RedWingsGuy80;12070693]
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Originally Posted by The Muffin Stud View Post
Uh, currency exchange has nothing to do with determining what is democracy or communism nor does it determind if a country is "messed". Our dollar is curently very close to yours in value and the cost of items are closer to one another.




No. I will admit, American artist Neil Diamond has not written songs about Canada. However, Canadian musicians such as Stompin' Tom and The Guess Who certainly have. What is your point?



Are you joking? I pray to God you are. That comment alone proves how dimwitted you actually are. Read a newspaper buddy.

So, you HONESTLY, WHOLE-HEARTEDLY believe that right now, somewhere in an Afghani or Iraqi desert, there is a Canadian army fighting to try to destroy Osama Bin Laden and get vengeance for what happened on September 11, 2001? How can you sit here and tell me that a single canadian even gives a crap about how New York City nearly got blown to smithereens on that day? It wasn't Montreal that got hit! It wasn't CN tower that got hit! It was New York City, so why would you guys care?
Quote:
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What are you doing? How can you be 27 years old and so ignorant?


Answer:


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01-17-2008, 10:16 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by RedWingsGuy80 View Post

So, you HONESTLY, WHOLE-HEARTEDLY believe that right now, somewhere in an Afghani or Iraqi desert, there is a Canadian army fighting to try to destroy Osama Bin Laden and get vengeance for what happened on September 11, 2001? How can you sit here and tell me that a single canadian even gives a crap about how New York City nearly got blown to smithereens on that day? It wasn't Montreal that got hit! It wasn't CN tower that got hit! It was New York City, so why would you guys care?


Wait, wait...

Is this you?


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Old
01-17-2008, 10:26 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Sportacus View Post
Wait, wait...

Is this you?

haha, i think this has some relevance as well:


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Old
01-17-2008, 11:15 AM
  #59
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Strictly speaking hockey, the Summit Series was more important...actually it's not even close. God Bless Canada outlines this perfectly in his post above.

However, in terms of worldwide cultural relevance, it's got to be Miracle on Ice. The SS was about Canadian national identity and hockey. MOI was about American national identity but its significance transended the sport itself. It was never really about hockey...it went way beyond that.

The cultural importance of the Summit Series stops at the Canadian border; that's not neccessarily the case with Miracle and the United States.

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01-17-2008, 11:20 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Macman View Post
It was the defining Canadian moment of my generation. Not just sports moment, but any moment. Would most Americans say the same about the Miracle on Ice over something like the moon landing or Kennedy assassination? That's the difference IMO.
Anybody (from any country) that thinks a sporting event is more significant than the moon landing is an outright idiot.



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01-17-2008, 11:48 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by RedWingsGuy80 View Post
So, you HONESTLY, WHOLE-HEARTEDLY believe that right now, somewhere in an Afghani or Iraqi desert, there is a Canadian army fighting to try to destroy Osama Bin Laden and get vengeance for what happened on September 11, 2001? How can you sit here and tell me that a single canadian even gives a crap about how New York City nearly got blown to smithereens on that day? It wasn't Montreal that got hit! It wasn't CN tower that got hit! It was New York City, so why would you guys care?
Come on read for once and get your stuck up american head out of your a**

http://www.thewesternstar.com/index.cfm?sid=98360&sc=23
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/0...n.html?ref=rss
http://www.canada.com/cityguides/win...d-ca5c4993301d
http://politicom.moldova.org/stiri/eng/87762/

And americans wonder why people from other countries hate them.

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01-17-2008, 12:44 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Zine View Post
Anybody (from any country) that thinks a sporting event is more significant than the moon landing is an outright idiot.


If you're calling me an idiot, learn to read.

I called it the defining "Canadian moment" of my generation, which is precisely why the Miracle on Ice to an American doesn't compare.

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01-17-2008, 03:00 PM
  #63
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I am old enough to remember both events; I was eight years old during the Summit and sixteen during the Miracle. Having grown up in a part of Michigan where my family TV could pull in Canadian television, I vaguely recall the Summit games but specifically remember being very happy to see the Soviets get defeated at the end.

Conversely, I remember the Miracle in great detail; that was an incredible moment on so many fronts here in the USA. The joy created by bunch of college kids beating the Soviets at a game they had dominated at the Olympic level for so long was seemingly everywhere here; it was a symbolic flipping of the bird to a country who would have loved nothing more than to see democracy and personal freedoms go the way of the Dodo bird.

Which was better? As suggested earlier, probably the best way to gauge that would be to get some insight from some knowledgeable Russian fans as to which loss hurt more. As for me, I think the Miracle was better since it had the heavy underdog factor that the Summit didn’t. But that’s just my opinion.

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01-17-2008, 03:38 PM
  #64
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Come on read for once and get your stuck up american head out of your a**

http://www.thewesternstar.com/index.cfm?sid=98360&sc=23
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/0...n.html?ref=rss
http://www.canada.com/cityguides/win...d-ca5c4993301d
http://politicom.moldova.org/stiri/eng/87762/

And americans wonder why people from other countries hate them.
There's bad apples in EVERY country/culture. You should check the USA/Canada GDT for the WJC semi-final game to find some of those in your own country.

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01-17-2008, 03:41 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by RedWingsGuy80 View Post
Which is the better moment? The Miracle on Ice or the 1972 Summit Series?(specifically, Paul Henderson's series-clinching goal)

I don't think ANYTHING can compare to the Miracle on Ice. I mean, it was the ultimate sports upset. Enough said!
To me it depends on where you are from, If you are American its the 80 Olympics if you are Canadian its the Summit Series.

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01-17-2008, 03:42 PM
  #66
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Is the 72 Summit Series DVD good? Here's a link: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...-wl_item-added
I have a DVD set with all 8 games and it is awesome/

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01-17-2008, 04:46 PM
  #67
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Summit.

I'm Canadian. Basically this vote will go by which country you are from or which one you like more...

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01-17-2008, 07:11 PM
  #68
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RedWingsGuy80, if you're serious when you said that you found out that you just learned two weeks ago who Tretiak was, then you shouldn't be making an opinion on either the Miracle on Ice or the Summit Series, because you'll be talking from the perspective of sheer ignorance.

Also, a quick reminder: keep the politics out of this thread. This isn't the place to talk politics. And this is the History of Hockey section. Where HF's elite come to discuss the game. Ignorance is accepted, tolerated, and seemingly even encouraged by some in the NHL Forum. The bad posters do get run around here.

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01-17-2008, 07:39 PM
  #69
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Anybody (from any country) that thinks a sporting event is more significant than the moon landing is an outright idiot.


The fact that the moon landing was such a big deal reinforces the point that's being made about the Miracle on Ice. This was a HUGE deal because everything was a competition with the USSR. The idea of falling behind the Soviets in anything was unthinkable to any American, but it was happening time and time again. Where Canada was supposed to dominate the USSR on the ice, the US was supposed to dominate the Soviets everywhere else. But, again, the same way it transpired on the ice in the Summit series, the USSR was able to more than hold their own. It's no coincidence that Kennedy made it a point to make it to the moon before the Soviets in 1961, just four years after Sputnik made it into space.
In 1980, the Americans found themselves, once again, face to face with the Soviets, where they were the dominant country. College kids, representing one country facing professionals representing another. Countries who just so happened to be on the brink of nuclear war.
There was legitimate hate between the two countries, that's why I think the Miracle on Ice had an immensely larger cultural impact than the Summit Series. Being the underdog is what makes for a good story line, any sports movie you think of, there's a reason the protagonist is the underdog, and the favourite is the antagonist. The Summit Series featured better hockey, but as far as drama goes, they could make a movie out of the Miracle.

And RedWingsGuy80, please. No more. Seriously.

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01-17-2008, 08:15 PM
  #70
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My bad.


Last edited by hckyfan0099: 01-17-2008 at 08:19 PM. Reason: Brought in politics into it.
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Old
01-18-2008, 10:02 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWingsGuy80 View Post
Well, I guess I've always been confused right off the bat as to why a magazine that is $3.99 in the U.S. is $6.99 in Canada and why things like a gallon a milk are a couple bucks more in Canada than in the U.S. I've never understood the whole thing as to why things have to be more expensive in Canada like that.

Do I feel that the U.S. is the only country that exists? I'll admit...absolutely...at times. I'm not saying all the time, but do I get that mentality sometimes? Absolutely! I mean, think about it. Did Neil Diamond ever sing a song called "Coming to Canada"? Were corporations like McDonald's and Nike founded in Canada? Aside from inventing hockey (although, I'll admit, that is a HUGE contribution) Canada just simply has NO historical value to me at all. What has Canada ever done for me? Is it Canada's troops over in Iraq and Afghanistan fighting for my freedom? No, unfortunately Canada could give a crap about my freedom as an American. Is it Canada's economy that allows me to have a job? Again, unfortunately the Canadian government could care less if I were sitting at home unemployed right now. So, I guess that's why it's so hard for me to respect something like the 1972 Summit Series. Because quite simply put, Paul Henderson is of no historic importance to me. None at all. His goal in the final game of that series means absolutely nothing to me. Why should it? Was it going to impact my life 8 years later when I was born? But was Mike Eruzione and Team USA's victory in Lake Placid, just 3 months before I was born, going to have an impact on my life? You darn right it was going to! I guess that's my biggest thing. I will admit, all but one of the times that I've been to Canada, everyone has been very kind and nice to me (with the exception of Vancouver, where everyone was just so mean to me). But aside from that, I guess I just can't bring myself to have respect for a country that hasn't done anything for me. And that's why I can't respect that goal that Henderson scored. It just simply means nothing to me. What did it do for my country and for my future? Nothing at all.

And again, like I mentioned, we (the U.S.) spit on Russia's dinner table when they invited us over for dinner, so they're never inviting us back over again. You guys (Canada) will ALWAYS be welcome ANYTIME until you spit on their dinner table. But until you do, you're golden.

Considering whats going on in the world this is a pretty ignorant comment. American's should feel thankfull there are other countries in the world willing to lose life in a war dictated by a certain countries President's therory of Democracy

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01-18-2008, 12:42 PM
  #72
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Given what happened in the 2000 American presidential elections, it seems ironic that someone from the US would cast stones at the Canadian democratic process.

Regarding the original question, the Summit Series wins, hands down.
In 1972, the Soviet Union was a huge mystery, nobody over here knew anything about them.
Canada had to win the last 3 games, all in Moscow, the last one with a last minute goal, to win for the "decadent dogs of democracy".
Any Canadian over 40 can tell you where they were when Henderson scored (a la the Kennedy assassination)...as I recall, there was not even a live American broadcast of the MOI.
Not to be rude, but why is it the Miracle On Ice is still talked about to this day, while only a very few hockey people still talk about the Summit Series, and then it is only to crow about beating the "Commies" (and BARELY beating them at that)?

I was 8 when the Summit Series happened, and I have to admit I was glad that Team Canada won, even if Orr couldn't play in it. But within a few years it had just become another footnote in hockey history to me, a total hockey nut. Yet, 28 years later the Miracle on ice is still fresh, vital to this country's ego, and vastly more important in the long run than the Summit Series, except maybe to Paul Henderson!

Dunno, I guess I just don't see the long term effects of the Summit Series doing ANYTHING to/for hockey, except exposing the Canadian style of hockey as poor (at the time) in comparison to the Soviet's. And within a few years, more people were playing this much better, more entertaining style of hockey. Heck, the Oilers of the mid-late 80's may as well have had Russian names on their jerseys! They played it a bit more run-and-gun than the Soviets did, but the continuous headmanning, passing-to-an-area-instead-of-to-a-player that Gretzky stole from them, the dipsy-doodling and drop passes to the defensemen...all of that came about from the Soviet style of playing. Not that some weren't already doing it, but it became THE way to play the game by 1980 or so. The Canadian table-hockey style had run it's course by then. Even Ken Dryden acknowledged this in his fantastic opus "The Game" in 1983. He had a full chapter on the demise of Canadian hockey, and the revision the Summit Series caused in hockey thinking...and he claimed it was for the better! I would have to agree 100%. I grew up doing the up-and-down-the-wing thing, until about 1979, when I finally got a coach who made us learn to weave in-and-out of each others' way, and to pass the puck 15 feet to the open man, then trail behind him for a drop pass, etc. It opened the game up enormously, and made it easier to play and be successful at.

Anyway, sorry for the long speech. I'm sure had I lived 75 miles north (then I would have been in Canada) in 1972, I might feel differently about this. Nothing wrong with good old patriotism, and especially now when some are trying their best to ruin America with their anti-American views on the military and being a true patriot, and loving your country, not just your welfare check!

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01-18-2008, 01:27 PM
  #73
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Dunno, I guess I just don't see the long term effects of the Summit Series doing ANYTHING to/for hockey, except exposing the Canadian style of hockey as poor (at the time) in comparison to the Soviet's. And within a few years, more people were playing this much better, more entertaining style of hockey. Heck, the Oilers of the mid-late 80's may as well have had Russian names on their jerseys! They played it a bit more run-and-gun than the Soviets did, but the continuous headmanning, passing-to-an-area-instead-of-to-a-player that Gretzky stole from them, the dipsy-doodling and drop passes to the defensemen...all of that came about from the Soviet style of playing. Not that some weren't already doing it, but it became THE way to play the game by 1980 or so. The Canadian table-hockey style had run it's course by then. Even Ken Dryden acknowledged this in his fantastic opus "The Game" in 1983. He had a full chapter on the demise of Canadian hockey, and the revision the Summit Series caused in hockey thinking...and he claimed it was for the better! I would have to agree 100%. I grew up doing the up-and-down-the-wing thing, until about 1979, when I finally got a coach who made us learn to weave in-and-out of each others' way, and to pass the puck 15 feet to the open man, then trail behind him for a drop pass, etc. It opened the game up enormously, and made it easier to play and be successful at.
So the Summit Series had no long-term effects, but you go and list all the long-term effects anyway? I think you've unintentionally proven why the Summit Series was much more important and enduring.

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01-18-2008, 01:37 PM
  #74
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[QUOTE=RedWingsGuy80;12070693]
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Originally Posted by The Muffin Stud View Post
Uh, currency exchange has nothing to do with determining what is democracy or communism nor does it determind if a country is "messed". Our dollar is curently very close to yours in value and the cost of items are closer to one another.




No. I will admit, American artist Neil Diamond has not written songs about Canada. However, Canadian musicians such as Stompin' Tom and The Guess Who certainly have. What is your point?



Are you joking? I pray to God you are. That comment alone proves how dimwitted you actually are. Read a newspaper buddy.

So, you HONESTLY, WHOLE-HEARTEDLY believe that right now, somewhere in an Afghani or Iraqi desert, there is a Canadian army fighting to try to destroy Osama Bin Laden and get vengeance for what happened on September 11, 2001? How can you sit here and tell me that a single canadian even gives a crap about how New York City nearly got blown to smithereens on that day? It wasn't Montreal that got hit! It wasn't CN tower that got hit! It was New York City, so why would you guys care?
Are you kidding me?
Are you ****ing kidding me!!??
You need to look outside of your *******, closed minded ideological box that you are in, and see that the whole ****ing world isn't as stupid and ignorant as you are.

I need to go hit something right now

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01-18-2008, 02:39 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Macman View Post
So the Summit Series had no long-term effects, but you go and list all the long-term effects anyway? I think you've unintentionally proven why the Summit Series was much more important and enduring.

All it really did was speed up the evolution of the game by 10 years. The Miracle is STILL revered, in fact it was named the GREATEST sporting moment of the 20th Century. It's impact is STILL being felt, in so many more ways than anything that came of the Summit Series.

My lasting memory of the Summit Series in Bobby Clarke doing what he did best: slash a player in the ankle to injure him, because he couldn't win otherwise. Typical of the day, I guess. Low class, no sportsmanship cheaters. The US won by pure hard work, and talent, and will power. THAT is the difference.

jiggs 10 is offline  
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