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The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Which is the Better Moment: The Miracle on Ice or the 1972 Summit Series?

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Old
01-18-2008, 02:42 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by brownman View Post
Something tells me that was also the feeling in 1980...only magnified like 60 times
I dont know about that. The US team didnt have to go and play in Russia and deal with the Soviet "police"

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01-18-2008, 02:43 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by jiggs 10 View Post
All it really did was speed up the evolution of the game by 10 years. The Miracle is STILL revered, in fact it was named the GREATEST sporting moment of the 20th Century. It's impact is STILL being felt, in so many more ways than anything that came of the Summit Series.

My lasting memory of the Summit Series in Bobby Clarke doing what he did best: slash a player in the ankle to injure him, because he couldn't win otherwise. Typical of the day, I guess. Low class, no sportsmanship cheaters. The US won by pure hard work, and talent, and will power. THAT is the difference.
Well, all of that and the Soviets pulling their starting goalie (you know the guy who played all of their games being pulled.

Something people always seem to neglect when mentioning the series.

Its like playing thos great NJ teams with the backup in. Sure its still a great team....but its missing its best part.

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01-18-2008, 02:59 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by RedWingsGuy80 View Post
What has Canada ever done for me?
Aside from provinging much of your lumber, by far most of your oil, and many other such raw goods...here are some simpler things you can thank Canada for:

Hockey
Basketball
Baseball
Lacrosse
Insulin
Telephone
Lightbulb
Zipper
Pacemaker
Standard Time
Electron Microscope
Blackberry
Radio Voice Transmission
Pablum
Electric Oven
Walkie Talkie
Paint Roller
Plexiglass

But im sure none of these has ever impacted your life.....

Quote:
Is it Canada's troops over in Iraq and Afghanistan fighting for my freedom?
No, no one is in Iraq fighting for your freedom. Not even America. Dont buy everything Mr. Bush tells you.

And yes, we went to Afghanistan to help fight for you after 9/11.

We also were fighting for years in WW2 while you sat at home building up your forces. Your welcome.

Quote:
Is it Canada's economy that allows me to have a job?
Partially, yes. Being the USA's biggest oil contributor plays a large roll in this, but there is far more to it than that.

Quote:
I will admit, all but one of the times that I've been to Canada, everyone has been very kind and nice to me (with the exception of Vancouver, where everyone was just so mean to me).
Based on your posts in this thread, I am going to assume this is because you opened your mouth. If this is the case, well done Vancouver.

Quote:
But aside from that, I guess I just can't bring myself to have respect for a country that hasn't done anything for me.
What a bitter life you must lead if you only respect someone who "does something for you".

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01-18-2008, 03:09 PM
  #79
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The fact that the moon landing was such a big deal reinforces the point that's being made about the Miracle on Ice. This was a HUGE deal because everything was a competition with the USSR. The idea of falling behind the Soviets in anything was unthinkable to any American, but it was happening time and time again. Where Canada was supposed to dominate the USSR on the ice, the US was supposed to dominate the Soviets everywhere else. But, again, the same way it transpired on the ice in the Summit series, the USSR was able to more than hold their own. It's no coincidence that Kennedy made it a point to make it to the moon before the Soviets in 1961, just four years after Sputnik made it into space.
In 1980, the Americans found themselves, once again, face to face with the Soviets, where they were the dominant country. College kids, representing one country facing professionals representing another. Countries who just so happened to be on the brink of nuclear war.
There was legitimate hate between the two countries, that's why I think the Miracle on Ice had an immensely larger cultural impact than the Summit Series. Being the underdog is what makes for a good story line, any sports movie you think of, there's a reason the protagonist is the underdog, and the favourite is the antagonist. The Summit Series featured better hockey, but as far as drama goes, they could make a movie out of the Miracle.

And RedWingsGuy80, please. No more. Seriously.
There was most definitely a legitimate hate between Canada and the USSR in that series.

People seem to forget that Canada was in fact a part of the Cold War. Hell it basically kicked off right here in Ottawa:

Quote:
In September 1945, a young Russian man symbolically ushered in the Cold War when he walked into Ottawa newsroom and announced he had proof of a widespread Soviet spy ring operating in Canada.
http://history.cbc.ca/history/?MIval...id=1&page_id=1

There was deep hatred amongst the teams.

The cultural impact aside, the hockey ramifications were much greater with the Summit Series.

It was the first time the Soviets actually faced another countries best players. The first time they were truly measures. It ushered in a new age in both western and eastern hockey, as both sides walked away with new techniques.

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01-18-2008, 03:16 PM
  #80
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the miracle on ice wasnt just an upset. It lifted up our citizens and gave them something to cheer for in a time of depression. I wrote a paper on it. If you want to see my full argument tell me or ask me to pm it to you

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01-18-2008, 03:18 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by SilverSeven View Post
Its like playing thos great NJ teams with the backup in. Sure its still a great team....but its missing its best part.

no its not. Not at all. Do you really think the next best Russian goalie was somebody like Clemenson? That other guy would have been the skill level of a Khabibulin, and part of the reason he was pulled was because the Americans had him figured out. As for your stupid soviet police comment, lets make this clear. The players on Canada were grown men, certainly capable of dealing with outside distractions like the soviet police. The players on the US were 19 and 20 year old kids. To put it in terms you might understand, it would be like a worse version of this year's US WJC team beating the Canadian Men's team.

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01-18-2008, 03:22 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by SilverSeven View Post
The cultural impact aside, the hockey ramifications were much greater with the Summit Series.
I think this is exactly what it comes down to. Culturally speaking, the Miracle on Ice was infinitely more than the Summit Series. Strictly relating to hockey, the Summit Series definitely has the edge. The Miracle game wasn't about hockey, it was about the U.S. beating the Soviets, the Series was about Canada proving they dominated hockey.
As for the question asked in this thread, either one can be the right answer. For me, the best MOMENT is about which was the more important in the broadest sense of the word. The Summit Series was more important to hockey, but the Miracle is as historically important as any sporting event is going to get.

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01-18-2008, 03:25 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
no its not. Not at all. Do you really think the next best Russian goalie was somebody like Clemenson? That other guy would have been the skill level of a Khabibulin, and part of the reason he was pulled was because the Americans had him figured out. As for your stupid soviet police comment, lets make this clear. The players on Canada were grown men, certainly capable of dealing with outside distractions like the soviet police. The players on the US were 19 and 20 year old kids. To put it in terms you might understand, it would be like a worse version of this year's US WJC team beating the Canadian Men's team.
I think that's way off, personally. Having dealt with corrupt foreign police, I can't begin to describe what a powerless feeling it is when you know someone can imprison you and you won't be able to do anything about it. Now, I don't know the extent of the Canadian team's problems with the Soviet police, but I imagine the KGB was no joke.

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01-18-2008, 03:26 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by SilverSeven View Post
We also were fighting for years in WW2 while you sat at home building up your forces. Your welcome.


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Originally Posted by SilverSeven View Post

Based on your posts in this thread, I am going to assume this is because you opened your mouth. If this is the case, well done Vancouver.


pwnd^2

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Old
01-18-2008, 03:28 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by adam sinister View Post
I think that's way off, personally. Having dealt with corrupt foreign police, I can't begin to describe what a powerless feeling it is when you know someone can imprison you and you won't be able to do anything about it. Now, I don't know the extent of the Canadian team's problems with the Soviet police, but I imagine the KGB was no joke.
in something that received this much international attention I am sure the Canadian team did not feel like they would be going to jail for no reason. Let's try to keep this realistic. This wasn't Stalinist Russia anymore, this was during Detente.

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01-18-2008, 03:34 PM
  #86
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i dont know about the rest of this thread but id assume as grand an event that russia and canada playing was i think the upset of amatuers beating professionals (80 olympics) is the bigger event.

imagine if the top college hockey players of the year or top junior players went against the nhl all stars and beat them in a game. thats the kind of upset the olympics were. at least the summit series was canadas best professionals against the russians.

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01-18-2008, 03:35 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSeven View Post
Aside from provinging much of your lumber, by far most of your oil, and many other such raw goods...here are some simpler things you can thank Canada for:

Hockey
Basketball
Baseball
Lacrosse
Insulin
Telephone
Lightbulb
Zipper
Pacemaker
Standard Time
Electron Microscope
Blackberry
Radio Voice Transmission
Pablum
Electric Oven
Walkie Talkie
Paint Roller
Plexiglass

But im sure none of these has ever impacted your life.....



No, no one is in Iraq fighting for your freedom. Not even America. Dont buy everything Mr. Bush tells you.

And yes, we went to Afghanistan to help fight for you after 9/11.

We also were fighting for years in WW2 while you sat at home building up your forces. Your welcome.



Partially, yes. Being the USA's biggest oil contributor plays a large roll in this, but there is far more to it than that.



Based on your posts in this thread, I am going to assume this is because you opened your mouth. If this is the case, well done Vancouver.



What a bitter life you must lead if you only respect someone who "does something for you".
I didn't know Edison was Canadian. In fact, I know he wasn't, and he didn't invent it there, either. But you make a good point. Of course, I could do the exact same with American inventions, but why bother?

Anyway, I think the Miracle was better and meant more to the US than the Summit Series did to Canada. But I'm American, so I could be wrong. From a strictly hockey standpoint, maybe the Summit Series was slightly more important. But on any other basis, the Miracle On Ice was the bigger event.

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Old
01-18-2008, 03:40 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by SilverSeven View Post
Aside from provinging much of your lumber, by far most of your oil, and many other such raw goods...here are some simpler things you can thank Canada for:

Telephone
.
Yeah thanks for stealing that from Maucci.

While I don't care for American Nationalism, Canadian smugness is just as bad.

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01-18-2008, 03:48 PM
  #89
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I would say the Miracle On Ice, because of the player matchup. College kids against one of the best teams ever? If that game is played 100 times the Russians win 99 of them. If the Summit Series is played 100 times, you probably get a 55-45 or 60-40 outcome either way. How can this not be a better moment, as the topic is asking?


I don't get how one can argue that Tretiak being pulled is a factor in the decision without mentioning the removal of Kharlamov. I would say the latter carries more weight, since it was the opposing team resorting to dirty tatics to do it and not a choice.


Perhaps the Summit Series is argued as being equal so hotly by some because there is not as much to 'hang the hat on.'
"We are the best at a game."
"What else?"
"........................"
(This is purely sports related, not anything else.)

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Old
01-18-2008, 03:55 PM
  #90
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as mentioned in the video, this Russian team beat several nhl teams in the run up to the olympics, including the eventual STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS. Let's try and keep this in perspective. Without the miracle on ice we do not get players like Modano, Roenick, Weight, Tkachuk, Amonte etc. The United States was a nothing hockey nation until this. This put a nation on the map and as a result has produced some very good players.

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01-18-2008, 05:07 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by jiggs 10 View Post
I didn't know Edison was Canadian. In fact, I know he wasn't, and he didn't invent it there, either. But you make a good point. Of course, I could do the exact same with American inventions, but why bother?
Actually, Edison didn't "invent" the light bulb either, he just improved on an idea which had been created 50 or so years prior. The Canadian connection surrounds the idea that Edison purchased the patent from Canadian inventors Henry Woodward and Matthew Evans. However, Edison did significantly improve the technology behind it.

As for the original question, it completely depends on how you are looking at the question (based upon hockey or culture) and your nationality. As a Canadian, of course i carry stronger sentiments towards the Summit Series which, in my opinion, had a greater impact on the game of hockey. However, I do recognize the cultural impact of the US beating the Soviets in 1980 as well as the impact on US hockey development. adam sinister summed it up fairly well...

Quote:
I think this is exactly what it comes down to. Culturally speaking, the Miracle on Ice was infinitely more than the Summit Series. Strictly relating to hockey, the Summit Series definitely has the edge. The Miracle game wasn't about hockey, it was about the U.S. beating the Soviets, the Series was about Canada proving they dominated hockey.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jiggs 10
The Miracle is STILL revered, in fact it was named the GREATEST sporting moment of the 20th Century. It's impact is STILL being felt, in so many more ways than anything that came of the Summit Series.
Once again, this all depends on which publication / media source you're reading. In a recent issue of The Hockey News ("60 Moments That Changed The Game"), The Summit Series was listed as #6 whereas the Miracle on Ice was listed as #10.

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01-18-2008, 05:12 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by RedWingsGuy80 View Post
Which is the better moment? The Miracle on Ice or the 1972 Summit Series?(specifically, Paul Henderson's series-clinching goal)

I don't think ANYTHING can compare to the Miracle on Ice. I mean, it was the ultimate sports upset. Enough said!


It's not even close. Miracle is one of the greatest sports moments in history anywhere, not just Canada. That's no knock on Canada, just Miracle has bigger historical implications....IMO.

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01-18-2008, 05:26 PM
  #93
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I think everyone is better off just adding the OP to their ignore lists. The thread was an interesting idea, the rest of the posts he made are just meant to piss people off.


Back on topic:


The US might have been the biggest underdog in history in the matchup against the Soviets, that's why I would choose it, AND the fact that it wasn't a 1 game wonder. They still had to win the Gold afterwards.

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01-18-2008, 05:29 PM
  #94
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Once again, this all depends on which publication / media source you're reading. In a recent issue of The Hockey News ("60 Moments That Changed The Game"), The Summit Series was listed as #6 whereas the Miracle on Ice was listed as #10.
Come on...where is the Hockey News published again? Canada...

Not a very convincing argument.

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01-18-2008, 05:35 PM
  #95
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Come on...where is the Hockey News published again? Canada...

Not a very convincing argument.
And where are you from again.......? You have just as much bias. As pointed out way early in the thread, country of orgin will decide the poll. Considering most Americans really don't have a clue about the Summitt Series, there's no way they'd pick it. As a Canadian, there is no way anyone is going to convince me that the Summitt series wasn't more important in the hockey world.

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01-18-2008, 05:41 PM
  #96
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And where are you from again.......? You have just as much bias. As pointed out way early in the thread, country of orgin will decide the poll. Considering most Americans really don't have a clue about the Summitt Series, there's no way they'd pick it. As a Canadian, there is no way anyone is going to convince me that the Summitt series wasn't more important in the hockey world.

Homerism has no bounds.


I love how you have to resort to insults to try and drive home your opinion.

I actually have the Series and have watched it. The Americans made up of a bunch of nobodys, impresses me more than a team full of HOF NHL players. That's just me.

Curious....what team was considered better on the Soviet side, the 1972 team or the team that went into the 1980 Olympics?


Last edited by CapitalsCupFantasy: 01-18-2008 at 05:47 PM.
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01-18-2008, 05:53 PM
  #97
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The Miracle was the biggest upset win of all time. But I certainly don't equate that with "best moment".

The Summit Series had infinitely more at stake, and subplots and twists and turns of epic proportions. As a former Classics student, it strikes me as almost Homeric.

To me, the Iliad is a much more compelling story than David and Goliath, but I don't imagine I'm in the majority.

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01-18-2008, 06:02 PM
  #98
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The 80 win gets the hype because it was more recent & it was the Americans who pulled off the upset. If Canada had done it, it would have been huge in Canada but a minor story in the US.

When the 72 summit started, I was in Paris wondering if I would get any news of the games at all (Paris isn't exactly a hockey hotbed). To my surprise, I picked up the International Herald Tribune & the headline was "USSR upsets Canadian professionals 7-2" so the fact that Canada lost the first game was Big news in Europe at the time.

Personally. I was almost hoping Canada would lose based on the shabby & political way they cobbled together the team. Also, I remember being at the CHIN picnic at Toronto island that summer & Paul henderson got up on stage & bragged how they would anniliate the Russians. Kind of interesting that he became the hero in a tight series.

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01-18-2008, 06:13 PM
  #99
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I haven't read any of the posts here, but I can say that even though I'm Canadian, and it was a great moment, the Miracle on Ice is tops. Easily.

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01-18-2008, 08:21 PM
  #100
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Some more thoughts on this. Canada is a hockey nation. The game was invented in Canada and Canadians are passionate about hockey above all other sports. The Summit series was all about pride. Canada wanted to prove we were the best. Going into that series we thought we would blow the Soviets away and prove our superiority once & for all. For political reasons (Eagleson) we didn't send our best & we certainly didn't prepare. We found ourselves in a hole but rallied to win. Still it was a hollow victory. After all, we were supposed to blow them away.

The 80 American Olympic win on the other hand was totally unexpected. A great achievment but really a fluke. As I said before, If Canada had pulled off that upset, it would only have been a big story only in Canada but since the Americans did it, it is the biggest upset in history.

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