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Grant Fuhr vs Vladislav Tretiak

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Old
01-17-2008, 11:04 AM
  #26
Yoshimitsu
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Originally Posted by Avy View Post
South Korea is not great hockey country.
Wow, I can't believe it went over your head this badly.

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01-17-2008, 11:13 AM
  #27
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South Korea is not great hockey country.
And Russia hasn't produced many all-time great goaltenders, the point still stands.

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01-17-2008, 11:20 AM
  #28
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And Russia hasn't produced many all-time great goaltenders, the point still stands.
Yes but this one was product of himself.

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01-17-2008, 11:22 AM
  #29
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Maybe I'm biased, but Fuhr is my choice.

Although Tretiak's jersey is cooler(I have a CSKA jersey with Tretiak on the back) Go crazy penguin with a stick!

Fuhr made up for his lack of size so well, and I loved him in net for the Blues...even when he was way past his prime.

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01-17-2008, 11:46 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Macman View Post
And how clutch was Tretiak in the final three games in Moscow?
I don't know how you can say a guy who won four Stanley Cups and two Canada Cups and was usually left to his own devices in Edmonton wasn't a big game player. I can't think of another goalie who did as much as Fuhr did with as little defensive support as he usually got.

Both were excellent goalies.
Tretiak was 20 at the time of the Summit Series......that's today's equivalent of a 1988 born goalie. Just the fact that he was able to compete in the Summit Series at such a young age shows his greatness. 99.9% of NHL goalies would be lit up like a lamp in a tourney like that at the age of 20.


Fuhr got ample defensive support in the Canada Cups yet still let in weak goals. Like I said, Fuhr could make that key stop, however, true clutch goalies don't let in weak goals at any time in important games...which Fuhr routinely did.

IMO of course.

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01-17-2008, 12:12 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Zine View Post
Tretiak was 20 at the time of the Summit Series......that's today's equivalent of a 1988 born goalie. Just the fact that he was able to compete in the Summit Series at such a young age shows his greatness. 99.9% of NHL goalies would be lit up like a lamp in a tourney like that at the age of 20.


Fuhr got ample defensive support in the Canada Cups yet still let in weak goals. Like I said, Fuhr could make that key stop, however, true clutch goalies don't let in weak goals at any time in important games...which Fuhr routinely did.

IMO of course.

Maybe your memory of Fuhr is better than mine, but I don't remember him routinely letting in soft goals, particularly during the Canada Cups. He was a gambling, reflex goalie who relied on his athleticism to stop pucks, not sound positioning, so I don't doubt he guessed wrong periodically. But for sheer athleticism and confidence, there have been few better than him.

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01-17-2008, 12:48 PM
  #32
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around what year would people say fuhr started to decline. i remember him in his days playing for the blues. granted this was the tail end of his career so i dont know how good he truly was.

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01-17-2008, 01:03 PM
  #33
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how many of us has seen Tretiak play other than the games vs Canada/International play ,to make an expert judgement on this question ?

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01-17-2008, 01:58 PM
  #34
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Is there a goalie in the history of the game who faced more 3-on-2s, 3-on-1s, 2-on-1s than Grant Fuhr?

The whole reason the run-and-gun style worked was because you knew that if two teams were trading chances, Fuhr would save more than the other guy.

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01-17-2008, 02:14 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Schitzo View Post
Is there a goalie in the history of the game who faced more 3-on-2s, 3-on-1s, 2-on-1s than Grant Fuhr?

The whole reason the run-and-gun style worked was because you knew that if two teams were trading chances, Fuhr would save more than the other guy.
The reason the run-and-gun worked was because nobody could match Edmonton's offense. Fuhr was important but he wasn't the reason it was successful. In fact, Moog basically had the same winning % and sv% as Fuhr did with the 1980's Oilers.

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01-17-2008, 02:46 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Zine View Post
Fuhr was NEVER a clutch goaltender. What Fuhr was brilliant at was making that key save at critical points in the game
Correct me if I'm wrong but isnt that the definition of clutch making key saves at crucial points in the game?

Besides I'll send you footage of the '87 Canada Cup. Check out Game #2 of the finals once overtime hits. Fuhr saved the bacon of Team Canada. Without him there are no Gretzky/Lemieux heroics.

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01-17-2008, 03:19 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong but isnt that the definition of clutch making key saves at crucial points in the game?

Besides I'll send you footage of the '87 Canada Cup. Check out Game #2 of the finals once overtime hits. Fuhr saved the bacon of Team Canada. Without him there are no Gretzky/Lemieux heroics.
send me footage id love to watch it

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01-17-2008, 03:25 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schitzo View Post
Is there a goalie in the history of the game who faced more 3-on-2s, 3-on-1s, 2-on-1s than Grant Fuhr?

The whole reason the run-and-gun style worked was because you knew that if two teams were trading chances, Fuhr would save more than the other guy.
Is there a team in the history of the game who could score more than the Oilers?

No.

The whole reason the run-and-gun style worked is because they would consistently score more than the rest of the league.

(See: 1982, where they scored a goal a game more on average than anyone in their division)

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01-17-2008, 03:31 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by RedWingsGuy80 View Post
Ok, fair enough, but then, here's my second argument. Is Grant Fuhr such a legendary goalie that he is known as the greatest goalie to ever hail from his country? Unfortunately, no. Is Tretiak the greatest goaltender in the history of Russia? You bet your f***ing a** he is!!!!
Therefore, Arturs Irbe is better than Grant Fuhr.

And Yutaka Fukufuji is better than Grant Fuhr.

Please don't circumvent the profanity filter.

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01-17-2008, 05:00 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Zine View Post
You have no clue what you're talking about if you think Larionov was even close to the best Russian center of all time......easily the weakest link of the KLM line.
I very much agree that he was the weakest player of the entire Green unit, but Larionov is one of the best centers in Soviet history.

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01-17-2008, 05:53 PM
  #41
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I'd take Tretiak before Fuhr... But the margin is very slim. Would be a great poll.

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01-17-2008, 06:14 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
I'd take Tretiak before Fuhr... But the margin is very slim. Would be a great poll.
I would as well. Barely. I'd probably be happy with either one of them.

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01-17-2008, 06:42 PM
  #43
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haha...what an awesome thread. As a young 'tender growing up in eastern Manitoba, those were my two favourite goalies. I had both of their goaltending "how to" books and would read them both religiously.

Grant Fuhr is definitely my all time favourite, and I hate it when people dump on him. (Glad nobody's brough up the "white menace" that he fought) His reflexes were incredible, and he played the majority of his career on a team where he had next to NO defence!!! The entire team was offence, offence, offence, so Fuhr's back there to stop 3-on-1 after 3-on-1. It was ridiculous.

Still, Tretiak was a machine...tough to compare the two.

Oh, and don't forget about how great Fuhr was at handling the puck! He had the league record for goalie assists in a season at one point...

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01-17-2008, 07:41 PM
  #44
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I would as well. Barely. I'd probably be happy with either one of them.
...Hey, how's that list going?

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01-17-2008, 09:27 PM
  #45
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I'm a failure, so I'm just posting the links to my Tretiak jersey pics.

http://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?i...3746661za0.jpg (front)

http://img250.imageshack.us/my.php?i...1948265uv0.jpg (back)


Last edited by BluesDarb: 01-17-2008 at 09:29 PM. Reason: stupid pictures!
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01-17-2008, 09:54 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Zine View Post
The reason the run-and-gun worked was because nobody could match Edmonton's offense. Fuhr was important but he wasn't the reason it was successful. In fact, Moog basically had the same winning % and sv% as Fuhr did with the 1980's Oilers.

Not in the playoffs. Regular season is one thing but playoffs is another.

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01-17-2008, 10:23 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
I'd take Tretiak before Fuhr... But the margin is very slim. Would be a great poll.
I'm too new to start one here, but http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t...6#post12069910

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01-18-2008, 12:24 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong but isnt that the definition of clutch making key saves at crucial points in the game?

Besides I'll send you footage of the '87 Canada Cup. Check out Game #2 of the finals once overtime hits. Fuhr saved the bacon of Team Canada. Without him there are no Gretzky/Lemieux heroics.
Thing is, a true clutch goalie wouldn't have given up 5 goals in the first place...much less 16 in the 3 game final; not to mention it was against a rather sub-par Soviet squad when compared to past Soviet teams.
Like I said, Fuhr was a master of making that big save late in the game to keep his team afloat; however, that's only after already letting in 4-5 goals.

Clutch is the ability to totally shut the door in big games, and/or singlehandely winning a game by yourself. Clutch IS NOT being relatively average for 60 minutes then being great in overtime. Fuhr NEVER showed that he could steal a game all by himself on any consistant basis.


Last edited by Zine: 01-18-2008 at 12:43 AM.
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01-18-2008, 09:58 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Zine View Post
Thing is, a true clutch goalie wouldn't have given up 5 goals in the first place...much less 16 in the 3 game final; not to mention it was against a rather sub-par Soviet squad when compared to past Soviet teams.
Like I said, Fuhr was a master of making that big save late in the game to keep his team afloat; however, that's only after already letting in 4-5 goals.

Clutch is the ability to totally shut the door in big games, and/or singlehandely winning a game by yourself. Clutch IS NOT being relatively average for 60 minutes then being great in overtime. Fuhr NEVER showed that he could steal a game all by himself on any consistant basis.
When was Tretiak "stealing" games ??? 95% of the games he played in his career his team was a significant favorite.

Apart from the Summit Series, games against the Flyers, Habs, and Canada Cup games against Canada, when was Tretitak ever facing an equal team, or better yet one better than his ??

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01-18-2008, 10:16 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Zine View Post
Thing is, a true clutch goalie wouldn't have given up 5 goals in the first place...much less 16 in the 3 game final; not to mention it was against a rather sub-par Soviet squad when compared to past Soviet teams.
Like I said, Fuhr was a master of making that big save late in the game to keep his team afloat; however, that's only after already letting in 4-5 goals.

Clutch is the ability to totally shut the door in big games, and/or singlehandely winning a game by yourself. Clutch IS NOT being relatively average for 60 minutes then being great in overtime. Fuhr NEVER showed that he could steal a game all by himself on any consistant basis.
Everyone always goes on about Roy being this goalie that steals games. Then why was Fuhr the one that played in all these types of games? Fuhr only won the Vezina once because his GAA was always high but you could ask every GM in the league who they'd want in any big game and they all would give you the same answer - Grant Fuhr.

As far as the '87 Canada Cup being a sub par Soviet team, if you look at the teams, the Soviet team was more skilled than Canada team was overall. Once you got past the top 4 or 5 guys on both teams the Soviets were probably more skilled.

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