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Bergeron's penalty and Don Cherry's idiotic rant

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01-25-2004, 08:32 AM
  #1
Bruwinz37
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Bergeron's penalty and Don Cherry's idiotic rant

First I want to preface this by saying I am talking about the real Don Cherry who I usually think is great, but was making an ass out of himself last night.

Everyone remember Bergeron's high stick? Was it a penalty...sure....but it should have been matching minors! Why is a forward (Donald Audette) allowed to be skating backwards in his defensive zone preventing Bergeron from forechecking. Neither Dale or Gord picked this up but I was livid. Yes Bergeron got his stick up, but only because he was trying to avoid the interference. The officiating is SO bad in the NHL that this stuff goes unnoticed all the time. I thought it was a terrible case of poor officiating and wanted to see who else agreed.

If anyone saw HNIC after the Leafs game they would have shown Don Cherry getting on Bergeron and Audette (two visor wearing french guys) and explained that this was a lack of carelessness by Bergeron. In between periods Cherry went on to explain that most of the problem was because they wear so much equipment that they have lose respect of the stick. This may be true but it is real frustrating to see a public figure (respected?) to be spouting off on a harmless stick infraction when he doesnt even bring up guys like Keith Tkachuk or Bill Guerin for some of their cross check to the faces which are far worse but because they are good old fashioned tough North Americans he gives them a free pass. I thought it was a pretty shameful performance and perhaps it was because it was Bergeron that I picked up on it, but his bias really showed last night.


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01-25-2004, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruwinz20
First I want to preface this by saying I am talking about the real Don Cherry who I usually think is great, but was making an ass out of himself last night.

Everyone remember Bergeron's high stick? Was it a penalty...sure....but it should have been matching minors! Why is a forward (Donald Audette) allowed to be skating backwards in his defensive zone preventing Bergeron from forechecking. Neither Dale or Gord picked this up but I was livid. Yes Bergeron got his stick up, but only because he was trying to avoid the interference. The officiating is SO bad in the NHL that this stuff goes unnoticed all the time. I thought it was a terrible case of poor officiating and wanted to see who else agreed.

If anyone saw HNIC after the Leafs game they would have shown Don Cherry getting on Bergeron and Audette (two visor wearing french guys) and explained that this was a lack of carelessness by Bergeron. In between periods Cherry went on to explain that most of the problem was because they wear so much equipment that they have lose respect of the stick. This may be true but it is real frustrating to see a public figure (respected?) to be spouting off on a harmless stick infraction when he doesnt even bring up guys like Keith Tkachuk or Bill Guerin for some of their cross check to the faces which are far worse but because they are good old fashioned tough North Americans he gives them a free pass. I thought it was a pretty shameful performance and perhaps it was because it was Bergeron that I picked up on it, but his bias really showed last night.
I've said it before....Don Cherry's bombastic rhetoric makes him akin to Vince McMahon, but I have to revise that because the WWE is all purely showbiz anyway.

He's actually more of a boob like Terry Bradshaw....


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01-25-2004, 10:13 AM
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Don Cherry never picks on his favorites...He loves Joe, Guerin and Keith, but NEVER gets on them for their stick swinging.....He loves Domi and had nothing to say when he knocked out Ulf (well deserved) or elbowed Neidermayer...If you fight and commit stick fouls, it's fine, but God forbid you do it if you wear a visor...

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01-25-2004, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8
Don Cherry never picks on his favorites...He loves Joe, Guerin and Keith, but NEVER gets on them for their stick swinging.....He loves Domi and had nothing to say when he knocked out Ulf (well deserved) or elbowed Neidermayer...If you fight and commit stick fouls, it's fine, but God forbid you do it if you wear a visor...


Right on! Plus, if Bergeron was from Brampton and not suburban Quebec City, Cherry would be tellling kids "see that there, he goes to the next and does what he has to do to get it done. That's hockey, kids."

He has too many drinks on his ice.

BTw, I say all this, yet I agree with the penalty call for high sticking. I think it was the only valid call made against either team last night.


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01-25-2004, 12:06 PM
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I was ticked at the game over that specific penalty- and if Grapes knew about Bergeron he'd realize he has some big ones. I've seen him 'hunt' for a hit which blows me away. He'll hit Chara or Roberts two guys I saw him amazingly go out of his way to hit when he really should have turned off and got into the play. With eye injuries what they are you have to think of wearing a shield- I'm suprised something along the lines of hard plastic goggles that don't fog up haven't been developed. The Count is one tough kid imo even if he doesn't or can't fight.

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01-25-2004, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKH
I was ticked at the game over that specific penalty- and if Grapes knew about Bergeron he'd realize he has some big ones. I've seen him 'hunt' for a hit which blows me away. He'll hit Chara or Roberts two guys I saw him amazingly go out of his way to hit when he really should have turned off and got into the play. With eye injuries what they are you have to think of wearing a shield- I'm suprised something along the lines of hard plastic goggles that don't fog up haven't been developed. The Count is one tough kid imo even if he doesn't or can't fight.

Exactly.....Since when can't you be tough if you don't fight? Some members here actually think that Bergeron needs to drop the gloves if he's going to actually have the audacity to throw a clean check.....Imagine that....Peter Forsberg is generally regarded by the same people to be "tough" and he hasn't fought in, um,,,,,oh yeah forever....


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01-25-2004, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8
Exactly.....Since when can't you be tough if you don't fight? Some members here actually think that Bergeron needs to drop the gloves if he's going to actually have the audacity to throw a clean check.....Imagine that....

tough doesn't equal fighting...period.

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You don't play for that long , not fighting, at that level without some degree of being tough.

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01-25-2004, 01:08 PM
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I saw Cherry's first intermission rant also. He said the majority of the high sticks are done by players wearing visors. Also he said the majority of them were European and French Canadian. WTF? I like Cherry, but again, he is off base with this. If Tucker wore a visor would he be saying this? Also as many of you have pointed out in this thread, he never picks on his favorites.

As a side note, Cherry was all talkative at the end of the game last night. Why? Because the Leafs won. Plain and simple. This guy has become such a kiss-ass for the Make-beleafs it is sickening. When Toronto loses on a Saturday night, Cherry is usually snarky and takes issue with an opposition player or the refs. Too bad. When he was more pro-Boston, he was a lot easier to take,

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01-25-2004, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim O'Reilly
I saw Cherry's first intermission rant also. He said the majority of the high sticks are done by players wearing visors. Also he said the majority of them were European and French Canadian.

so high sticking is a Euro/Quebec thing ???

Why the guys we see on tv talking about hockey never know anything about hockey ???

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01-26-2004, 12:18 AM
  #10
Tim O'Reilly
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Originally Posted by reffree
so high sticking is a Euro/Quebec thing ???

Why the guys we see on tv talking about hockey never know anything about hockey ???
Good question. Cherry does know his stuff, but, as in the case of Sydney Crosby, if he doesn't like you, he'll be all over you.

Funny though he is a big fan of his former player Jason Spezza, and he never talks about the fact he wears a visor?

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01-26-2004, 12:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim O'Reilly
Good question. Cherry does know his stuff, but, as in the case of Sydney Crosby, if he doesn't like you, he'll be all over you.

Funny though he is a big fan of his former player Jason Spezza, and he never talks about the fact he wears a visor?

I don't know why anyone still cares about what Don Cherry says.

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01-26-2004, 12:43 AM
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Was he was targeting the kid outright or was he using that penalty and Bergeron to highlight a point he wanted to make? If you read it that he was bashing the kid you are probably reading way too much into it. His point that due to equipment players don't respect each other seems pretty valid. Players wear all this body armor and don't respect each other anymore...he's right on point. Cherry can be off the wall…isn't it why people tune in to the broadcast? I usually get a kick out of him and can't take every word seriously. But I still find that he gives props to the B’s more then not.

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01-26-2004, 12:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jr77812
Was he was targeting the kid outright or was he using that penalty and Bergeron to highlight a point he wanted to make? If you read it that he was bashing the kid you are probably reading way too much into it. His point that due to equipment players don't respect each other seems pretty valid. Players wear all this body armor and don't respect each other anymore...he's right on point. Cherry can be off the wall…isn't it why people tune in to the broadcast? I usually get a kick out of him and can't take every word seriously. But I still find that he gives props to the B’s more then not.
He was targeting French and Euro players who wear visors and Bergeron was one of his examples in this obviously well researched expose

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01-26-2004, 01:12 AM
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It will be interesting to see his thoughts now that Tie Domi's trying a visor.

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01-26-2004, 01:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jr77812
Was he was targeting the kid outright or was he using that penalty and Bergeron to highlight a point he wanted to make? If you read it that he was bashing the kid you are probably reading way too much into it. His point that due to equipment players don't respect each other seems pretty valid. Players wear all this body armor and don't respect each other anymore...he's right on point. Cherry can be off the wall…isn't it why people tune in to the broadcast? I usually get a kick out of him and can't take every word seriously. But I still find that he gives props to the B’s more then not.
I think you missed the point of the thread. First off it was a harmless high stick. Second he made mention that it was two guys who were wearing visors.....like he has any proof that they commit more infractions (and they both happen to be French Canadian). He made mention that it was mostly Euros and the French that wear visors earlier in the night.

The point I was making is that he never takes anyone else to task if they happen to speak English and drop the gloves. Fact is if he wants to talk about a lack of respect and high sticking infractions his rant should start and end with Keith Tkachuk....but he wont because he isnt from Europe or Quebec.

A lot of what Cherry says has a lot of validity....especially when he talks to kids on how to play the game and the way he looks for safety in other aspects of the game, but last night was blatant racism IMO and it was pathetic.

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01-26-2004, 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted by BartG101
It will be interesting to see his thoughts now that Tie Domi's trying a visor.
He commented on that and said that Domi's son or nephew (cant remember which) would be ashamed of him. Sad.

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01-26-2004, 04:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Bruwinz20
I think you missed the point of the thread. First off it was a harmless high stick. Second he made mention that it was two guys who were wearing visors.....like he has any proof that they commit more infractions (and they both happen to be French Canadian). He made mention that it was mostly Euros and the French that wear visors earlier in the night.

The point I was making is that he never takes anyone else to task if they happen to speak English and drop the gloves. Fact is if he wants to talk about a lack of respect and high sticking infractions his rant should start and end with Keith Tkachuk....but he wont because he isnt from Europe or Quebec.

A lot of what Cherry says has a lot of validity....especially when he talks to kids on how to play the game and the way he looks for safety in other aspects of the game, but last night was blatant racism IMO and it was pathetic.
Point taken...That's why I asked the question. I know he can be off the wall and I missed the comments. I'm surprised he picked on Bergeron though and was curious whether he was really bashing Bergeron or just guys who wear shields indiscriminately...or I guess in this case guys who speak with a French accents too.

BTW "harmless high stick"...is there such a thing?

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01-26-2004, 11:49 AM
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Jeff from Maine
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Since When

Since when cant a forward skate backwards through his own zone?

It may be part of the systems problem that is prevelant in hockey, BUT it IS legal!

And regardless of WHY Bergerons stick got up...IT GOT UP! Penalty...end of discussion.

BTW...a "harmless" high stick.

How do we define "harmless"? Is it because by the godd graces of the Lord Bergeron didnt carve someones face up?

Are you not one of those who says that you cant go by the result of the high stick? A high stick is a high stick....whether or not it draws blood or not.

Going by your own statements in that original post...he was VERY careless. You yourself said he got his stick up trying to avoid interference..or whatever.

Extremely careless. You can avoid interference without high sticking.

Later

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01-26-2004, 12:03 PM
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Bergerons penalty was a "typical" blown call by the refs this year.

I'd swear that at times it looks like they are "getting back" at Boston for some of thier constant whining (ie- Glen Murray) about non-calls. And I'm not talking about the Panthers game only.

Maybe this should be under a different thread, but it sure takes a lot of the fun out of watching a great game when the refs seem to have thier own agenda. How can you look right at an infraction and call NOTHING- while the other ref 75 fet away sees the same thing and calls it ? Happens ALL the time.

We've seen the "favoritism" bestowed upon the Lefs and Habs in the playoffs (IMO)from the on-ice officials and thats almost enough to make me stop watching.

Where is the accountability for blown calls ? I think Stewie is smoking something.
-Piels

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01-26-2004, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff from Maine
Since when cant a forward skate backwards through his own zone?

It may be part of the systems problem that is prevelant in hockey, BUT it IS legal!

And regardless of WHY Bergerons stick got up...IT GOT UP! Penalty...end of discussion.

BTW...a "harmless" high stick.

How do we define "harmless"? Is it because by the godd graces of the Lord Bergeron didnt carve someones face up?

Are you not one of those who says that you cant go by the result of the high stick? A high stick is a high stick....whether or not it draws blood or not.

Going by your own statements in that original post...he was VERY careless. You yourself said he got his stick up trying to avoid interference..or whatever.

Extremely careless. You can avoid interference without high sticking.

Later
Agreed...hence the reason why the NHL went to 2 min. minor / 4 min. double minor / 5 minute major system for meting out the infraction.

He obviously didn't mean it but he did it all the same....2 minutes.

The Cherry rant is unjustified of course but that's not unusual coming from him.


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01-26-2004, 06:05 PM
  #21
Bruwinz37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff from Maine
Since when cant a forward skate backwards through his own zone?

It may be part of the systems problem that is prevelant in hockey, BUT it IS legal!

And regardless of WHY Bergerons stick got up...IT GOT UP! Penalty...end of discussion.

BTW...a "harmless" high stick.

How do we define "harmless"? Is it because by the godd graces of the Lord Bergeron didnt carve someones face up?

Are you not one of those who says that you cant go by the result of the high stick? A high stick is a high stick....whether or not it draws blood or not.

Going by your own statements in that original post...he was VERY careless. You yourself said he got his stick up trying to avoid interference..or whatever.

Extremely careless. You can avoid interference without high sticking.

Later
I figured you would chime in and try to make this some type of anti-Bergeron thread sooner or later.

I will take each of your points one at a time!

The point about the forward skating backwards in his own defensive zone was that the ref missed the interference call! This hurts the game because it prevents forechecking! Get it!?

It was considered harmless in RELATION to intentional cross checks to the face!!!!! That is the point of the thread! Why does Cherry not bring up violent cross checks to the face with ill intent and brings up a minor grazing because the kid is from Quebec! Get it!?

Finally...I never said it wasnt a penalty! It certainly was! I said it should be matching! YAY!

Jeff, you are usually pretty thorough, but please take the time to read my post in the proper context. I am not saying that Bergeron didnt deserve the call. The points of my post were two fold. One the refs cant ignore interference when it is that blatant because it really is hurting the game and the second point was to criticize Don Cherry and his racist act that he was putting on Saturday night which I assume you missed. The point certainly was not to absolve Bergeron of fault....how you read that into this is beyond me.

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01-26-2004, 06:27 PM
  #22
Jeff from Maine
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Sorry About That

Sorry about that, I misread you. I wasnt taking an anti-Patrice slant either...I dont see how you arrived at that either

I do however recognize you when you say that Cherry certainly slants to anti-European. I hesitate to toss out the racist comment. But he certainly does have a bias.

But, I thought/could have sworn, that I have seen numerous quotes attributed to Cherry inwhich he praises, effusively, Bergeron. If thats the case, I doubt that his rant was intentionally ripping towards Bergeron....as much as it appears to be the case.

As far as refs missing calls...I agree. Its prevelant and a piece of the degredation of the quality of the play in the league.

Later

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01-26-2004, 06:35 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff from Maine
Sorry about that, I misread you. I wasnt taking an anti-Patrice slant either...I dont see how you arrived at that either

I do however recognize you when you say that Cherry certainly slants to anti-European. I hesitate to toss out the racist comment. But he certainly does have a bias.

But, I thought/could have sworn, that I have seen numerous quotes attributed to Cherry inwhich he praises, effusively, Bergeron. If thats the case, I doubt that his rant was intentionally ripping towards Bergeron....as much as it appears to be the case.

As far as refs missing calls...I agree. Its prevelant and a piece of the degredation of the quality of the play in the league.

Later
JFM, if you heard him Saturday you would see why I threw out the racist statement. Stereotyping like it was his job. Not that I havent laughed at his act before...it just got really silly when he doesnt call out his favorites when they intentionally cross check someone in the face and then brings up Bergeron and Audette as part of the lack of respect in the NHL. It was stupid. Of course Bergeron should have controlled his stick, but it barely grazed Audette and wasnt a big deal. What is a big deal is Keith Tkachuk cross checking someone in the face.

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01-27-2004, 02:57 AM
  #24
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Xenophobe or Francophobe may be betters words to describe his off the wall rant then racist. I bet he just loves Brashear and Worrell.
:p

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01-27-2004, 03:02 AM
  #25
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Xenophobia aside...he has given the B's and specifically Bergeron props this year. There are a lot of teams and players he slams but rarely are the B’s on that end of the stick. He still loves Boston and you can tell every time he’s in town the years behind the B’s bench were some of his best and he's constantly talking about those years.

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