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Old
01-21-2008, 11:33 AM
  #26
Speedtrials
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Originally Posted by BroadwayBlues View Post
What I'm afraid of: is will Sather go and trade some of our young studs like Cherepanov and Sanguinetti for a "quick fix" and get someone like Sundin.

I pray not.
I really hope he doesn't do that either. I don't think he would, as he really hasn't given up any top prospects for rentals since he has been here.

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01-21-2008, 01:37 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Speedtrials View Post
I really hope he doesn't do that either. I don't think he would, as he really hasn't given up any top prospects for rentals since he has been here.
Ummm.....

Prior to the lockout, Sather probably had the 2nd worst trading history in the NHL for GM's at teh time.

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01-21-2008, 01:59 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
More luck then genius. What would you have said if they both test the UFA waters instead of signing with Philly?

He would have wasted a 1st rounder.

He overpaid a great deal for Hartnell. 5.2 million per year? Seems like a little to much I think.

And Timonen at 8 million for a #2 guy is a bit much as well.

But they have paid dividends for the Flyers so it's a win win for them and the players.
If they didn't sign with the Flyers, they wouldn't have given up a 1st rounder.

$4.2 for Hartnell and $6.3 for Timonen, who is a #1 defenseman. He isn't at the uber-elite Lidrstom/Pronger/Nidermayer level, but he's a top defenseman

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Old
01-21-2008, 02:01 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan View Post
If they didn't sign with the Flyers, they wouldn't have given up a 1st rounder.

$4.2 for Hartnell and $6.3 for Timonen, who is a #1 defenseman. He isn't at the uber-elite Lidrstom/Pronger/Nidermayer level, but he's a top defenseman
Rozsival at 4.6 mill or so vs. Timmonen at 6.3..... it isn't even close. I'd take Timmonen every time.

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01-21-2008, 02:08 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by hlundqvist30 View Post
Ummm.....

Prior to the lockout, Sather probably had the 2nd worst trading history in the NHL for GM's at teh time.
If you look at what I wrote I said Sather hasn't given up any top prospects for rentals since he has been here, which is true. The only prospects he has really given up for playoff rentals, were marginal guys like Novak, and Kondratiev, in the Bure and Sykora trades. If you want to say he has made poor trades outside of a desperate push for the playoffs, I agree. However, when it comes to giving away a top prospect for a veteran who will only play a few months for us, he really hasn't done that.

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01-21-2008, 02:11 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Speedtrials View Post
If you look at what I wrote I said Sather hasn't given up any top prospects for rentals since he has been here, which is true. The only prospects he has really given up for playoff rentals, were marginal guys like Novak, and Kondratiev, in the Bure and Sykora trades. If you want to say he has made poor trades outside of a desperate push for the playoffs, I agree. However, when it comes to giving away a top prospect for a veteran who will only play a few months for us, he really hasn't done that.
That clears it up more, but to an extent I disagree. Manny Malhotra was a top prospect which he gave up for Rucinsky at the deadline. Yea, he didn't pan out, but that isn't the point. You are correct in stating we haven't made any full out Forsberg or Tkachuck type moves, but every time you trade a 2nd rounder or mid level prospect, it adds up.

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01-21-2008, 02:22 PM
  #32
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F - the Flyers and any other team not named the NY Rangers. I can careless what they did. Take notes u said... I'll wipe my ass with those notes you say we should take. I hope we see them in the playoffs, Please... NYR 4 LIFE.. We will make the playoffs!

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01-21-2008, 02:30 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by hlundqvist30 View Post
That clears it up more, but to an extent I disagree. Manny Malhotra was a top prospect which he gave up for Rucinsky at the deadline. Yea, he didn't pan out, but that isn't the point. You are correct in stating we haven't made any full out Forsberg or Tkachuck type moves, but every time you trade a 2nd rounder or mid level prospect, it adds up.
Yeah he did give up a few too many picks when he first got here. When it comes to the Malhotra's, Lundmarks, and Brendl's, I think he was eager to get rid of them as he could probably tell none of them were too good. As for the Malhotra for Rucinsky deal, we actually got an interesting prospect back in the late Roman Lyashnko. Tragically though, the young man took his life. So that deal wasn't a straight up case of dealing a promising young player, for a playoff rental.

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01-21-2008, 02:42 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Speedtrials View Post
Yeah he did give up a few too many picks when he first got here. When it comes to the Malhotra's, Lundmarks, and Brendl's, I think he was eager to get rid of them as he could probably tell none of them were too good. As for the Malhotra for Rucinsky deal, we actually got an interesting prospect back in the late Roman Lyashnko. Tragically though, the young man took his life. So that deal wasn't a straight up case of dealing a promising young player, for a playoff rental.
Yea I know about Lyashenko, and did you really think he was promising? I thought he was projected to be 4th liner at best.

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01-21-2008, 02:46 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Hartnell makes 4.2M a year for nex 6 years.
Timonen 6.3M.
Briere at 6.5M
Richards was resigned 5.75M a year

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=430336


Fans say trade Jagr or Shanny or both... but do you think you will ever have 2 600 goal scorers on the same team? Ever again?

Rangers need a minor trade.
Went by this

http://tsf.waymoresports.thestar.com...layer.cgi?2167

http://tsf.waymoresports.thestar.com...player.cgi?123

Cap hit counts for what the team is charged with, what they are being paid is completly different.

And the Rangers need more than just a minor tweaking. ALOT MORE

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01-21-2008, 02:49 PM
  #36
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i was the one that wanted Hartnell last year. And most people laughed, we still need a big physical forward that can play. When our oldest player is our biggest physical forward, there is a problem. Hossa is big but not physical at all. Imagine if we had Hartnell at least someone other than Dubinsky, Prucha and Avery would go to the net.
To bad Shanny stopped being a physical player 2 years before he left Detroit

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Old
01-21-2008, 02:53 PM
  #37
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Is it bad when outside of Hollweg and Orr, the winger with the most hits on the team is only 175 pounds? Ok well Avery would have more if he played more games, but that's besides the point.

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Old
01-21-2008, 03:16 PM
  #38
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Philly has turned their entire program around very quickly while this administration's apologists keep telling us what a great job Sather has done. Rangers are no better at the moment than they were 8 years ago. The future may be minimally brighter or it may not be. We won't know that for another couple of years.

Philly has moved personnel wisely and drafted wisely. Sather, on the other hand, is still building around Jagr. He's a genius.

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Old
01-21-2008, 03:16 PM
  #39
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I know it has been said before, but there is a BIG difference between giving up on a last place in the NHL team (the Flyers last year) and giving up on a team that is sitting JUST outside the playoffs before the All-Star break. I understand that the Rangers are in a bad spot right now, but who's to say they don't bring it together during the rbeak and come out working hard and showing how much talent there really is on this team??

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01-21-2008, 07:57 PM
  #40
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1 thing i think most people miss is that the flyers had some of the talent there last year, however they didnt perform up to there capabilites. i did not think richards would take the leap he has but carter, umberger, richards, nitty all struggled last year very badly. holmgren has made some great moves but hartnell is still overpaid in my mind. i dont think any move he made has been a bad move at all. the impressive thing like people have said is the depth they have upfront. they also have guys in the minors who can be called up and not look out of place. their procpect pool at forward is very good in high end and 3/4th line talent. sadly they have no goalie in the system who is even an nhl caliber backup. rangers are in a tough spot as they want to make the playoffs and may not want to trade some vets. i would try to reload and trade dtraka and the like as they still could very easily make th eplayoffs whiel still dealing those guys. jagr represents the big ?. do you build around him now to make a serious run? or trade him for a ******** of talent and reload with drury and gomez. to me if they dont plan to resign him i would trade him. however will he want to be paid more than gomez and drury? with his ego who knows.

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Old
01-21-2008, 11:20 PM
  #41
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It's not like the Flyers planned on being one of the worst teams in the NHL.Paul Holmgren made two separate trades with the Islanders for Alexei Zhitnik and Mike York in an effort to get the Flyers going in the right direction.Trading for Zhitnik meant taking on additional salary.The Flyers had too many injuries last season.They were the worst team in the NHL at this time last season.The Rangers are 1 point out of a playoff spot.
I tend to think that Holmgren is just a genius, but you might be right. My thinking when the deals were made is that Homer was trying to acquire assets that might gain in value while on the Flyers and then he could flip them. It worked with Zhitnik and we got Coburn out of him (best trade Holmgren made) and didn't work with York, who was a bum.

The Flyers also got a bit lucky as they had quite a few guys in the system who just weren't ready last year, but now they are (Richards, Carter, Umberger).

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01-22-2008, 04:49 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Philly has turned their entire program around very quickly while this administration's apologists keep telling us what a great job Sather has done. Rangers are no better at the moment than they were 8 years ago. The future may be minimally brighter or it may not be. We won't know that for another couple of years.

Philly has moved personnel wisely and drafted wisely. Sather, on the other hand, is still building around Jagr. He's a genius.
And there are people who make excuses for Jagr and want him around past this season.

How the Rangers should have given a 35 year old Nylander a four year contract to appease the big baby?

Please

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Old
01-22-2008, 04:54 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Gags1288 View Post
I tend to think that Holmgren is just a genius, but you might be right. My thinking when the deals were made is that Homer was trying to acquire assets that might gain in value while on the Flyers and then he could flip them. It worked with Zhitnik and we got Coburn out of him (best trade Holmgren made) and didn't work with York, who was a bum.

The Flyers also got a bit lucky as they had quite a few guys in the system who just weren't ready last year, but now they are (Richards, Carter, Umberger).
Holmgren did an excellent job.The Flyers OHL scout(Dennis Patterson/John Chapman)does an excellent job.Justin Williams.Jeff Carter.The Rangers wouldn't have taken Carter if he was there in 2003.Mike Richards.The Flyers were high on Marc Staal and Bobby Sanguinetti.I detest the Flyers but give credit where credit is due

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01-22-2008, 04:57 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by hlundqvist30 View Post
Rozsival at 4.6 mill or so vs. Timmonen at 6.3..... it isn't even close. I'd take Timmonen every time.
The Rangers are really rushing to give Roszival $4.6 million.Sather hasn't discussed a contract for Roszival with Rich Winter.You would think the Rangers would have exchange offers with Winter at this point in the process.I wouldn't give Roszival a penny over $4 million and that seems to be pushing it based on his play this season plus his knee history

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Old
01-22-2008, 05:05 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by The Chariot View Post
I'm pretty amazed at the Flyers and their complete turnaround from last seasons suckfest. That team was so god awful last year and right now they look almost unbeatable 4 lines deep.

One thing for sure, that team plays tough. When teams see the Flyers coming their way they know its going to be a physical challenge win or lose.

In fact at this point, despite the negatives of all the suspensions they had to deal with earlier in the season, I think teams are intimidated by Philly.

Not just physically either. They are hot and have somehow managed to amass incredible depth on their roster. Every night they have a different hero

That c-blocking move to nab Timmo and Hartnel before July 1st was freaking genius.

The Rangers GM should take notes
Thanks for the compliment. I don't have time to read this entire thread right now, so if I'm being repetitive please forgive.

First off, please go across the river and tell Brodeur to be "intimidated" by us, because apparently he hasn't gotten the memo.

Next up, I think what people miss with Homer's "genius" is who is gave away and who he got in return.

He turned Alexei Zhitnik into Braydon Coburn who is quickly becoming nearly EVERYONE's favorite d-man. Braydon has all the goods and his speed is utterly amazing for someone his size. Coburn is also the guy that got drafted higher than Phaneuf (sp)

He turned Calder into Lasse Kukkonen. While Lasse is not playing of late (who knows why?), he is another potential top-paring d-man.

Peter Forsberg became Scottie Upshall and Ryan Parent--who is supposedly the cornerstone of the trade--time will tell. Then the Forsberg pick was given back for the rights to Timmonen and Hartnell.

I'm not sure you can get the same for Shanny as we did for Forsberg. Don't get me wrong, I love Shanny and really wish he signed with us post-lock-out--but the key was finding a team beyond desperation--between the possible move and the need to get to the playoffs to "secure" staying--they were just ripe for the picking.

Anyhoo, I think you guys are far better than your record shows. Best of luck the best of the way (except when you play us, of course). I have no doubt that you guys can turn it around.

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