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Old
01-21-2008, 03:19 PM
  #76
Ross MacLochness
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I predict these lines will last two games.

They'll beat the Bruins tomorrow on Guaranteed Win Night then go into New Jersey and get smoked on Guaranteed Loss Night and we'll see something new after the all-star break.

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01-21-2008, 03:20 PM
  #77
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When I look at the lineup, I tend to see pairings that work well together. For instance:

Plekanec-Kovalev, Higgins-Ryder, Koivu-Ryder, Kostitsyn-Plekanec... those end up forming the top two lines.
Further down, I have Latendresse-Lapierre, Dandenault-Kostopoulos.. and that's it. None of these players in my view work very well together, which is why it's always so awkward putting those lines together.

I'd probably stick SKost on the third line with Lats and Lapierre, just to see what happens.. and then call the menagerie of crap that's left the fourth line.

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01-21-2008, 03:20 PM
  #78
Qui Gon Dave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moe Wanchuk View Post
Nice to hear that D'Agostini has got his game back on track. Any reason for his slow start that you know of?

What about Valentenko? I've heard good things about his play as of late. Is there a physical side to his game that would help at the NHL level or is he still a year or two away?
D'Ago had a leg injury early in the year so as a guy who relies on his skating to give him an edge, that literally put him off his stride. I'm not sure that accounts entirely for his play early on though. I think he struggled a little in establishing his game at the level he wanted without the supporting cast he had there last year. He meshed well with Grabs/Kost by playing his game, which worked well with those two. Maybe he expected more of himself than he or the team could do early on while they were getting used to all the new team members?

Lately, he has been either good or excellent. When he gets his feet and hands moving at top speed, he plays his best. The combination of speed, acceleration and agility can help him in most situations, but when his hands can keep up with the rest of him, he becomes really dangerous. Lately, everything has clicked for him and a 9 game point streak and a 5 game goal scoring streak reflect that nicely. There has been talk in the past that maybe he could replace Ryder next year. It probably wouldn't work out that nicely immediately, but if he can keep developing, he could be a better all around player with potentially similar scoring abilities. That's a way in the future though, but it will be interesting to see just what he can contribute in a few years time. He sure has some nice attributes that could be of use: speed, puck handling, shooting skills, right handed, 2 way player, can be used on the PP or PK. For now though, it's fun watching him tear apart defences

As for Valentenko, from a conservative view point, probably a year or so away. But I said similar things about Sergei Kostitsyn and Ryan O'Byrne this year. Weeks/Days before they were called up. I don't think he is ready yet, he has more to prove at the AHL level, but he is getting there. Physically, he can really p**s other teams off. He can move the puck well and shoot it too. I think his way into the NHL is as Bouillons replacement. Cubes contract runs out about the same time Tank might be ready (if we give him lots of time) so it could be a nice fit. But if Pavel can continue his recent surge in form for the rest of the season, he may challenge for a place out of camp next year, or early in the season like O'Byrne. He had a slow, at times brutal start to the season but he is one of Hamilton's best Dmen of late. He has the size/strength and skating to get by at a higher level, his experience and decision making though will be key. When he plays smart, he is the guy we can currently see playing. When he reacts to every play instead of thinking what he should be doing, like the start of the season, then he looks bad. I'm not sure how his decisions would fair in the NHL. That and the lack of experience of N.American hockey are the main things holding him back at the moment IMO.

I think for the time being, we should be glad he is doing as well as he is of late and see if he can:
A/ continue it and
B/ improve on it

If he can, then he may well be another kid forcing his way onto the roster sooner than later.

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01-21-2008, 03:21 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by VAN-HAB View Post
let's not forget that once Sergei was called up the team played a much better hockey. Send him back to Hamilton and the team will collapse
Yeah... had nothing to do with Huet...

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01-21-2008, 03:21 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Mats NAslund View Post
Higgins Koivu Ryder ---- About time, need to get this guy back on his horse. I like S. kost but Ryder will prove valuable if he can snap out of it. This is the only to get him back on track. Play him where he was successful in the past.

A. Kositsyn Plekanec Kovalev ---No Surprise here

Steve Bégin Bryan Smolinski Sergei Kostitsyn. -----At first Glance, what the hell!

Guillaume Latendresse, Maxim Lapierre, Tom Kostopoulos Mathieu Dandenault all practice on the forth line.

http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/244224.html
God. Shoot me now.

What the hell is carbo's fixation with Higgins Koivu Ryder??

Jesus...

We had amazing lines going, scored somethign liek 20 goals in 4 games...and that lasted all of what 6 games? Now we're back to the same old one line crap?

Just when I was starting to get on the Carbo bandwagon...he again shows complete lack of judgement and knee jerk rookie coach mistakes. So we had one bad game in NY...lets meltdown and abandon those lines copmpletely...ya that's the ticket!


Last edited by yukoner: 01-21-2008 at 03:26 PM.
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Old
01-21-2008, 03:21 PM
  #81
Reuben
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
No sarcasm here.

There's no ****ing surprise that Carbonneau was going to do this. Sergei Kostitsyn will be back in Hamilton within the week and we'll be back to being a team that can barely score over 2 goals a game, that will go into a defensive shell and blow a bunch of leads.
Sergei isn't exactly lighting it up now, not that i expect him to at all. I woudln't send him down either but something is going to have to be done when people return from injured reserve. im just guessing here but i'd imagine Gainey and Carbo consult on who gets called up and sent down. let's not get carried away here at this point in time Sergei isn't some sort of offensive catalyst so i don't seeing it having a huge impact offensively with the team. sure it very slightly thins out our offensive options but that's about it.

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01-21-2008, 03:22 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Ross MacLochness View Post
I predict these lines will last two games.

They'll beat the Bruins tomorrow on Guaranteed Win Night then go into New Jersey and get smoked on Guaranteed Loss Night and we'll see something new after the all-star break.
That's exactly what I said on another forum.
Quite predictable.

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Old
01-21-2008, 03:25 PM
  #83
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I wish locke got a chance on a scoring line, or at least hope he does sometime as he has been great in the ahl since been getting sent down. i like the top two lines but i'd rather have lapierre and lats with s-kost since begin and smolinski have no offense.

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Old
01-21-2008, 03:26 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by zx81 View Post
Yeah some more line changes.
Ridiculous.

Just go back to

Lats-Koivu-S kost
Kovy-Pleks -A kost
Higgins-Laps-Ryder


Last time Koivu had a good game (against Chicago) it was with Lats and S. Kost.

Carbs changed his lines after one bad game , made them worse and he's now totally confused.
Typical.
Pretty much. You gotta wonder what the hell runs through this guys head sometimes...

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Old
01-21-2008, 03:26 PM
  #85
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interesting line. Maybe the 3rd may show us a new facet of kosty jr plays (more grint)

I cross my fingers that he will not end into an European hockey style (play perephical like sansonov for example)

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01-21-2008, 03:32 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reuben View Post
Sergei isn't exactly lighting it up now, not that i expect him to at all. I woudln't send him down either but something is going to have to be done when people return from injured reserve. im just guessing here but i'd imagine Gainey and Carbo consult on who gets called up and sent down. let's not get carried away here at this point in time Sergei isn't some sort of offensive catalyst so i don't seeing it having a huge impact offensively with the team. sure it very slightly thins out our offensive options but that's about it.
Sergei is just trying to force passes and plays right now, as a young player often does. It doesn't help that Higgins is slumping and not shooting and Koivu never shoots the puck. Sergei would be best suited in these new lines to be playing with Lats and Lapierre, Lapierre shoots too much for his own good and Latendresse has no problems getting rebounds. S. Kostitsyn with Smoke and Begin is going to be a disaster.. He's going to handle the puck and look for a pass and see that Begin is either lying injured on the ice or somewhere off checking someone and Smolinski, well ****, who cares where he is. He's gonna be all alone and I predict he'll have a high turnover rate.

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Old
01-21-2008, 03:34 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Mats NAslund View Post
Higgins Koivu Ryder ---- About time, need to get this guy back on his horse. I like S. kost but Ryder will prove valuable if he can snap out of it. This is the only to get him back on track. Play him where he was successful in the past.

A. Kositsyn Plekanec Kovalev ---No Surprise here

Steve Bégin Bryan Smolinski Sergei Kostitsyn. -----At first Glance, what the hell!

Guillaume Latendresse, Maxim Lapierre, Tom Kostopoulos Mathieu Dandenault all practice on the forth line.

http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/244224.html

What did Steve Begin do to deserve to play on the 3rd line??? He is probably the worst player on the team skillwise. He can't score goals or setup plays, all he can do is skate hard, hit a little bit and penalty kill.....after that he has nothing to offer.

The lines should be....

A Kostitsyn - Pleks - Kovalev
Higgins - Koivu - S Kostitsyn
Latendresse - Lapierre - Ryder
Begin/Dandenault - Smokes - Kostopoulos

Those lines were working great, we were scoring a lot of goals using those lines and everybody seemed to play well with each other....but I guess when your teams head coach is Guy Carbonneau....you can't get used to playing with the same players. He doesn't seem to like when players get comfortable and play well together....he has to switch it up and put players together that don't have the same skill levels.

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01-21-2008, 03:48 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Sergei is just trying to force passes and plays right now, as a young player often does. It doesn't help that Higgins is slumping and not shooting and Koivu never shoots the puck. Sergei would be best suited in these new lines to be playing with Lats and Lapierre, Lapierre shoots too much for his own good and Latendresse has no problems getting rebounds. S. Kostitsyn with Smoke and Begin is going to be a disaster.. He's going to handle the puck and look for a pass and see that Begin is either lying injured on the ice or somewhere off checking someone and Smolinski, well ****, who cares where he is. He's gonna be all alone and I predict he'll have a high turnover rate.
1)Higgins may be slumping, but you can't say he isn't shooting the puck. I personally think he's playing too conservative, not taking any chances on offense and not forechecking enough. But thats just me.

2)I agree with you 100% on the 3rd line, but Begin will most likely give a solid effort tonight. I don't see this line clicking though. The Kostitsyn brothers together would be ideal, but our 2nd (1st) line can't be broken up at this point.

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01-21-2008, 04:20 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
I love the third line, finally Carbonnea realizes that S. Kostitsyn needs to play with some offensively gifted forwards, especially pass first kinda players. The only thing I'm worried about is S. Kostitsyn and Begin being paired together, it's almost a bit too much finesse on one line.
The sarcasm thing is getting old dude..

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
Can you lay off the ****ing sarcasm for a while.. it's seems to be you only method of communication lately, it's ****ing annoying...

and this isn't sarcasm...
Indeed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash13 View Post
- 65676868768

His sarcasm has been one of the bright spots on these boards since Saturday. This board has been nothing short of pathetic after ONE loss.
Sarcasm can be funny. (See: Brownman for best examples)

WTK was a pretty good poster, but lately I feel he's bitter or something..

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01-21-2008, 04:23 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by AD View Post
WTK was a pretty good poster, but lately I feel he's bitter or something..
Koivu **** in his cereal.

BONG.

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Old
01-21-2008, 04:40 PM
  #91
Reuben
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Originally Posted by Puckhead58 View Post
What did Steve Begin do to deserve to play on the 3rd line??? He is probably the worst player on the team skillwise. He can't score goals or setup plays, all he can do is skate hard, hit a little bit and penalty kill.....after that he has nothing to offer.

The lines should be....

A Kostitsyn - Pleks - Kovalev
Higgins - Koivu - S Kostitsyn
Latendresse - Lapierre - Ryder
Begin/Dandenault - Smokes - Kostopoulos

Those lines were working great, we were scoring a lot of goals using those lines and everybody seemed to play well with each other....but I guess when your teams head coach is Guy Carbonneau....you can't get used to playing with the same players. He doesn't seem to like when players get comfortable and play well together....he has to switch it up and put players together that don't have the same skill levels.
you should be thankful Lemaire isn't our coach then he's juggling lines way more often than our coach. I don't know what the big deal is, when something isn't working you don't repeatedily keep doing the same thing. that would be a perfect definition of stupidity.

Begin will play no more than 12 minutes per game max, so what line he's on isn't particularly relevant. if we called the line Begin is on the 4th line would that make you happy? in reality it makes no difference.

Speaking of Lemaire he put Todd Fedoruk out on the pp a few times last time i watched them play, i suppose that must make him a crappy coach right? even though there was reasons to do so.

Just because you don't happen to see or understand the reasons coaches juggle there lines or put lines together that you don't happen to agree with doesn't make them wrong of poor coaches they have there reasons and they are usually based from logic.

get used to Carbo being here. your going to have come to terms with it because you can expect him to be here for a few more years at least. no amount of whining is going to change that. yeah i know hard to believe but true... constant whining about the coach and his decisions is a futile waste of time and this message board has seen enough whining about everything under the sun to last a lifetime.

this board has increasingly become a bunch of out to lunch whining and less and less actually substance. I'm at a point where i'm actually ready to call it quits here which i'm sure would make some posters very happy. at least some folks won't have me countering there bizarro world stats like our 4th liners play as much as our top lines or Carbo was the reason we lost.

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01-21-2008, 05:56 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross MacLochness View Post
I predict these lines will last two games.

They'll beat the Bruins tomorrow on Guaranteed Win Night then go into New Jersey and get smoked on Guaranteed Loss Night and we'll see something new after the all-star break.
I'm less optimistic. It will work against Boston, then be shutdown against the devils and it will never click. Carbo gave it a try for over 3 weeks, and it failed, is it supposed to magically start working again?

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Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
When I look at the lineup, I tend to see pairings that work well together. For instance:

Plekanec-Kovalev, Higgins-Ryder, Koivu-Ryder, Kostitsyn-Plekanec... those end up forming the top two lines.
Further down, I have Latendresse-Lapierre, Dandenault-Kostopoulos.. and that's it. None of these players in my view work very well together, which is why it's always so awkward putting those lines together.

I'd probably stick SKost on the third line with Lats and Lapierre, just to see what happens.. and then call the menagerie of crap that's left the fourth line.
I'm not sure that the Koivu-Ryder is really efficient anymore, but yeah, there used to be a chemistry. The pairing of Kevin with lappy and Lats could work, certainly more than freaking Begin-Smolinski-Kostitsyn.

I just hate this freaking organization. "So... we need to make a spot for a vet, so let's just toss this rookie with two complete washed up players to have a good excuse to send him down to the minors."

I think at some point in time, if Carbo keeps juggling lines, he should definitely think about breaking up Kovalev's line, as it seems to be becoming pretty inconsistent at EV recently. Something along the lines of:

Higgins-Koivu-A.Kostitsyn
S.Kost-Plekanec-Kovalev

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Old
01-21-2008, 05:58 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Mats NAslund View Post
Higgins Koivu Ryder ---- About time, need to get this guy back on his horse. I like S. kost but Ryder will prove valuable if he can snap out of it. This is the only to get him back on track. Play him where he was successful in the past.

A. Kositsyn Plekanec Kovalev ---No Surprise here

Steve Bégin Bryan Smolinski Sergei Kostitsyn. -----At first Glance, what the hell!

Guillaume Latendresse, Maxim Lapierre, Tom Kostopoulos Mathieu Dandenault all practice on the forth line.

http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/244224.html
Streit - Smolinski - Kostitsyn wouldn't be bad. Begin needs to be on the 4th line or scratched.

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01-21-2008, 06:00 PM
  #94
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Cool, we lost 1-2 games and now we shuffle the lines YET again. The lines were great as they were, but I guess they forget their winning period very fast.

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01-21-2008, 06:18 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Reuben View Post
you should be thankful Lemaire isn't our coach then he's juggling lines way more often than our coach. I don't know what the big deal is, when something isn't working you don't repeatedily keep doing the same thing. that would be a perfect definition of stupidity.

Begin will play no more than 12 minutes per game max, so what line he's on isn't particularly relevant. if we called the line Begin is on the 4th line would that make you happy? in reality it makes no difference.

Speaking of Lemaire he put Todd Fedoruk out on the pp a few times last time i watched them play, i suppose that must make him a crappy coach right? even though there was reasons to do so.

Just because you don't happen to see or understand the reasons coaches juggle there lines or put lines together that you don't happen to agree with doesn't make them wrong of poor coaches they have there reasons and they are usually based from logic.

get used to Carbo being here. your going to have come to terms with it because you can expect him to be here for a few more years at least. no amount of whining is going to change that. yeah i know hard to believe but true... constant whining about the coach and his decisions is a futile waste of time and this message board has seen enough whining about everything under the sun to last a lifetime.

this board has increasingly become a bunch of out to lunch whining and less and less actually substance. I'm at a point where i'm actually ready to call it quits here which i'm sure would make some posters very happy. at least some folks won't have me countering there bizarro world stats like our 4th liners play as much as our top lines or Carbo was the reason we lost.
You can juggle lines but doing it too often will cause your players to have 0 chemistry between them and not know their roles anymore( Higgins example). You lose focus and confidence.

Begin playing 12min a game is irrelevant?..dude, you realize that's more than 1/6th of the game?..12min is HUGE for a guy who should be playing 8min MAX.

Lemaire is not a crappy coach, doesnt mean putting Fedoruk on the PP is a good idea. Did it help them??..Even if it did, its only temporary.

It has nothing to do with us ''not understanding'' the reason of his line juggling. As far as im concerned, after watching every game this season, its a known fact that Higgins-Koivu-Ryder doesnt work. We have no reason to believe it will.
SK-Koivu-Lats did work however, and having a very capable foward(Higgins) on third line made our team more offensively balanced.
Everybody knows Begin-Smokes-SK isnt gonna work. You dont need to have coached 20years in the NHL to figure that one out. Might work by fluke for a game or two but thats it.

At this point in the season, we shouldn't be juggling the lines anymore. We're 1pt out of 2nd in the East for most pts, we're not suppose to be juggling lines here...we ain't in 9th-10th.

Carbo can coach the way he wants, as long as we win he's got a safe spot. Someone will always be complaining about some move regardless of the outcome, thats not just for hfboards, that's just life man.

Still, some people are right to question his lines. SK-Begin-Smokes is not a line that's gonna work and he could have been a bit more inventive for a 3rd line.

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01-21-2008, 06:28 PM
  #96
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I don't know what the big deal is, when something isn't working you don't repeatedily keep doing the same thing. that would be a perfect definition of stupidity.
Exactly.

And Koivu Higins Ryder line has not been a consistently top line since half way through LAST season.

So why in the world does Carbo keep going back to it?

By your own definition, its a stupid decision.

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01-21-2008, 06:39 PM
  #97
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The Lats-Koivu-Kost line was working well.
Koivu was basically a "pt per game" center with those 2.

The line had a bad game in Boston and Carbo changed it. Talk about patience.

Koivu scored his last goal assisted by Lats and Kost.

This line shouldn't have been changed.

Freaking stupid line juggling.

We need stability !

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01-21-2008, 06:39 PM
  #98
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Anyone else has the feeling that Ryder will never come back on track?
He made his mark playing on a line with a skilled center in the NHL, he wont get back on track playing on the 4th line.

He will be motivated if this is whats going on, he knows his job and contract for next season (habs or otherwise) is on what he does for the rest of the season.

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01-21-2008, 06:48 PM
  #99
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Exactly.

And Koivu Higins Ryder line has not been a consistently top line since half way through LAST season.

So why in the world does Carbo keep going back to it?

By your own definition, its a stupid decision.
why does he keep going back to it? Most likely lack of other options. Options are limited at RW. when the Kovalev line stays in tact, i don't see a whole lot of options do you?

you seem to think you know better than someone who's been around nhl hockey for decades so why don't you tell me instead of asking.

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01-21-2008, 06:55 PM
  #100
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I dont have a problem with the top 6 forwards. The 4th looks allright too. I dont feel so good about the 3rd line. Smolinski is starting to play better but he's not really producing offense, he's not really winning battles on the boards, he's not really skating that well, so that pretty much makes him useless right now.

I hope begin goes on one of those scoring tears like in 05/06

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