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01-21-2008, 12:18 PM
  #1
PKtrollban
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SE division situation

What do you think about the fact that the leader of the SE division could make the playoffs even if the 9th team has more points in bank ? Would you be upset if the Habs was that 9th team ?

Imo, that rule is ridiculous. That division is ridiculous. The 8 better teams should be allowed in the playoffs. The teams in the east should play as much games vs any other teams in the same conference. Not more games vs teams in their division. I know it creates rivalry, but teams in strong divisions will have a lot more hard time making the playoffs. And reserving the 3rd playoff spot to the division leader is also ridiculous.

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01-21-2008, 12:28 PM
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Souray44
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I've never liked this rule but since the SE plays itself so much its likely the division leader will be in the top 8 in points. The rule is insane though and i've been afraid of a situation arising such as this since it was put into place. It's better to finish 6th than 4th or 5th because you'll get to play the SE division champ rather than finishing 4th and playing the 5th place team who has more points than the 3rd place team.

Hopefully that made some sense.

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01-21-2008, 12:28 PM
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Yeah, it doesn't make much sense.
Not only is a more deserving team out of the playoffs but the team that finishes 6th in the division is rewarded by playing the weakest playoff team in the conference.
They have to change that. Rank all teams 1 through 8 and leave it at that.

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01-21-2008, 12:29 PM
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Le Tricolore
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Teams in the NE play Boston 8 times a year.

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01-21-2008, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCMario View Post
What do you think about the fact that the leader of the SE division could make the playoffs even if the 9th team has more points in bank ? Would you be upset if the Habs was that 9th team ?

Imo, that rule is ridiculous. That division is ridiculous. The 8 better teams should be allowed in the playoffs. The teams in the east should play as much games vs any other teams in the same conference. Not more games vs teams in their division. I know it creates rivalry, but teams in strong divisions will have a lot more hard time making the playoffs. And reserving the 3rd playoff spot to the division leader is also ridiculous.
The only team I can say I wouldn't be upset for is Toronto. Any other team Montreal included I would be hella pissed to see that.

I honestly think that IS what will happen this season too, and the team that gets the shaft will contest it to the point where the rule will be removed probably by next season.

Personally, I think that rule is the dumbest rule to ever surface in professional sports.

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01-21-2008, 12:40 PM
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It is ridiculous. But I won't complain if the Habs finish 9th and have more points than the 3rd only because I would defend it if my team was in SE division

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01-21-2008, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoMo316 View Post
It is ridiculous. But I won't complain if the Habs finish 9th and have more points than the 3rd only because I would defend it if my team was in SE division
Badass avatar man. Makes me happy to see Smoke finally getting some recognition.

I almost pulled a Price when I seen it.

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01-21-2008, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Badass avatar man. Makes me happy to see Smoke finally getting some recognition.

I almost pulled a Price when I seen it.
Credits go to Habs425 for making it and Chomsky for the idea ()

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01-21-2008, 01:42 PM
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I believe it won't end up that way. The end of the season has a ton of divisional play, so I think that someone will emerge from that division with enough points to at least be 8th. That they'll 3rd is another issue entirely.

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01-21-2008, 02:36 PM
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I will bet anyone that at least 2 se teams make the playoffs.

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01-21-2008, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by JMMR View Post
I will bet anyone that at least 2 se teams make the playoffs.

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01-21-2008, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMMR View Post
I will bet anyone that at least 2 se teams make the playoffs.
would you bet your house on it?

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01-21-2008, 03:13 PM
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dj4aces
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Consider, for a moment: What if it was your division that was "doing poorly." Let's assume that Montreal leads the division with 87 points at the end of the (hypothetical) season, and as a result, is 3rd overall. Following this line of thought, Florida has 90 points, but finishes 9th overall. How would you all feel? Would you be happy Montreal is in the playoffs, or would you be disappointed that Florida didn't make it in, but you all did?

I'm not trying to stir things up, I'm just genuinely curious how you all would feel if the shoe was on the other foot.

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01-21-2008, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dj4aces View Post
Consider, for a moment: What if it was your division that was "doing poorly." Let's assume that Montreal leads the division with 87 points at the end of the (hypothetical) season, and as a result, is 3rd overall. Following this line of thought, Florida has 90 points, but finishes 9th overall. How would you all feel? Would you be happy Montreal is in the playoffs, or would you be disappointed that Florida didn't make it in, but you all did?

I'm not trying to stir things up, I'm just genuinely curious how you all would feel if the shoe was on the other foot.
I'd consider expanding to another obscure southern American market.

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01-21-2008, 03:21 PM
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I'd consider expanding to another obscure southern American market.
New Orleans Cajuns?

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01-21-2008, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by dj4aces View Post
I'm not trying to stir things up, I'm just genuinely curious how you all would feel if the shoe was on the other foot.
Honestly, that's a strange question. The issue isn't how it feels for the various parties, the issue is that the present system Isn't Fair. Obviously the teams who are going to miss the playoff because they can no longer benefit from being first in their division will be pissed, but something's gonna give.

Teams in sucky divisions already benefit from playing against sucky team more often. They don't need any straight ticket to the playoff.

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01-21-2008, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dj4aces View Post
Consider, for a moment: What if it was your division that was "doing poorly." Let's assume that Montreal leads the division with 87 points at the end of the (hypothetical) season, and as a result, is 3rd overall. Following this line of thought, Florida has 90 points, but finishes 9th overall. How would you all feel? Would you be happy Montreal is in the playoffs, or would you be disappointed that Florida didn't make it in, but you all did?

I'm not trying to stir things up, I'm just genuinely curious how you all would feel if the shoe was on the other foot.
Obviously anyone would be happy to be in the crapshoot that is the playoffs, but we'd be hearing from the glorious SE division about how it's not deserved and the alignment should be changed.

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01-21-2008, 03:31 PM
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dj4aces
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
Obviously anyone would be happy to be in the crapshoot that is the playoffs, but we'd be hearing from the glorious SE division about how it's not deserved and the alignment should be changed.
Bingo! That's the point I was trying to make. If you all made it at the expense of a SE division team, they would be complaining. Just like how you all would be complaining if a SE division team made it at the expense of your team. Or a Central division team made it at the expense of a Pacific division team.

I'm pretty sure nothing would change, though. Teams will be rewarded for taking their division with a playoff berth.

You can make some of the people happy all of the time, and you can make all of the people happy some of the time, but you can't make all of the people happy all of the time. And that's what this boils down to.

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01-21-2008, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by JMMR View Post
I will bet anyone that at least 2 se teams make the playoffs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
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Originally Posted by cjbhab View Post
would you bet your house on it?
JMMR might sound like he's exaggerating, but I'm suspecting he's one of the few that considered the fact that the end of the schedule is weighted towards a lot on intra-division match-ups.

The mere fact that those 5 teams will be playing each other almost exclusively during the last 2 weeks or so (just like the habs will be playing mostly NE teams at that time), should help prop one or two of these teams into a playoff spot. At the same time, some of the teams in the other divisions will slow down as they play their own intra-division match-ups.

It's clear the SE is much weaker than the rest of the conference but the way the schedule is designed and the fact that they play each other 8 games should lead to a few of them eeking in. This thread would have more importance if the schedule slated for next year was currently in effect (6 intra-divisional match-ups per team).

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01-21-2008, 03:37 PM
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I too, find it ridicule and the 8 best teams should be in the playoff period. As for the people who stating that the SE teams play themselves so often that their best representative should be in the playoff, my answer is no because they play against weak teams, right now, all this points out is: "who's the best of the worse" team.

However, by doing this, the league will promote its sports in all geographic area of the east american coast and generate interest throught the US. It's sucks that this rule only exist because of $$. It's even worse when you can see how much interest those teams attract in their stand (except when the habs are visiting the florida region)

Basically, I beleive it is in placefor the sole purpose of Marketing and Business for the NHL regardless of the logic and talent the teams really have.

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01-21-2008, 03:38 PM
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Considering a team in the SE division has one two of the last three, and appeared in 3 of the last 5 Cup Finals, I don't think it's that big of a deal.

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01-21-2008, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by dj4aces View Post
Bingo! That's the point I was trying to make. If you all made it at the expense of a SE division team, they would be complaining. Just like how you all would be complaining if a SE division team made it at the expense of your team. Or a Central division team made it at the expense of a Pacific division team.

I'm pretty sure nothing would change, though. Teams will be rewarded for taking their division with a playoff berth.

You can make some of the people happy all of the time, and you can make all of the people happy some of the time, but you can't make all of the people happy all of the time. And that's what this boils down to.
Justice isn't about making people happy. Its about treating people fairly.

Of course there will allways be "happy" people and "unhappy" people. But that's besides the point.


If a serial murderer gets off without any jail time.. I'm pretty sure, he'll be happy.

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01-21-2008, 03:48 PM
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PKtrollban
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dj4aces View Post
Consider, for a moment: What if it was your division that was "doing poorly." Let's assume that Montreal leads the division with 87 points at the end of the (hypothetical) season, and as a result, is 3rd overall. Following this line of thought, Florida has 90 points, but finishes 9th overall. How would you all feel? Would you be happy Montreal is in the playoffs, or would you be disappointed that Florida didn't make it in, but you all did?

I'm not trying to stir things up, I'm just genuinely curious how you all would feel if the shoe was on the other foot.
I wouldn't mind because if the Habs have less points than the 9th team, they're not cup contender anyway. It sure would suck for the 9th team tho, and that's the whole point. The rule should be, 'the 8 better teams are in the playoffs' and there shouldn't be any divisions, only a conference. So all the teams would have equal chances to make the playoffs.

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01-21-2008, 04:10 PM
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Well, although I do have the same impression that the SE teams are "weaker", one could argue that it's the parity in their division that lowers the leading teams' point totals.

Carolina has a better record against other teams in its conference than the 8th place Islanders or 9th place Rangers (division excluded).

So I don't think it's fair to label them as weak. If everyone played the same amount of games against EACH team in the conference, then point totals would make sense for standings and the division leader shouldn't get a freebie. But, as it is, with 32 games played intra-division, I think it's fair.

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01-21-2008, 04:11 PM
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This division the SE is weak, but yet Carolina and Tampa have won the Cup coming out of that division? I don't like the idea of just because they win the division they get third spot...if there are 8 teams ahead of them on points, then they finish 9th end of story...

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