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GDT:Glumac's Blue Knights@Preds 1/21/08

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01-21-2008, 06:24 PM
  #1
General Veers
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GDT:Glumac's Blue Knights@Preds 1/21/08

I missed everything up until now. We had a disallowed goal or something?
EDIT: Hinote!

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01-21-2008, 06:30 PM
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I HATE UNTELEVISED GAMES!!!

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01-21-2008, 07:00 PM
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5-2 what the hell is wrong with this team? Manny can't be 100%

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01-21-2008, 07:02 PM
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5-3 now KT from Backes, Jackman

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01-21-2008, 07:06 PM
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5-2 what the hell is wrong with this team? Manny can't be 100%
He's playing hurt, no doubt.

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01-21-2008, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by DarthVTEC View Post
He's playing hurt, no doubt.
Well he isn't helping us out there hurt. 9 goals on 36 shots in the last 2 against the Preds.

We have to start playing Toivonen if he's hurt.

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01-21-2008, 07:51 PM
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So, is the bottom falling out?

Might make the deadline "buy or sell" decision a little easier...

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01-21-2008, 08:02 PM
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I think an 80% healthy Manny is still the better option over Hannu and Marek. As long as Manny gets a little sharper we can push for the 8th spot. I say just keep running Manny out there until he gets it right again.(As long as his health stabilizes)

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01-21-2008, 08:08 PM
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what type of goals did manny allow?

Did he allow goals due to faulty positioning or anything like that?

I second hating un-televised games

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01-21-2008, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by mmitchell19 View Post
So, is the bottom falling out?

Might make the deadline "buy or sell" decision a little easier...
Right now I have us as less than 50/50 to make the playoffs [which is down from about 77% to get in only two weeks ago] ... and that 9-game road trip is still out there shortly after the trade deadline. 2.60 goals per game isn't going to get a team into the playoffs this year, and the defense is clearly struggling under the strain of trying to hold it together. Unless someone knows where we can pick up a full goal-per-game over the last 36 games, I think it's more and more apparent that we must be sellers and maximize value this year. No, "he's a great guy, we'll hang on to him this year and sign him long-term on February 27" deals, just deal and call up guys from Peoria to plug in and get kids some experience and if they come back in the offseason, great - if not, we'll reload from within.

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01-21-2008, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by mmitchell19 View Post
So, is the bottom falling out?

Might make the deadline "buy or sell" decision a little easier...
I don't think the bottom is falling out just yet, we started off the season as basically a team wth some streaks:

First 8 games - (2-6)
Games 9-16 - (6-2)
Games 17-21 - (1-4)
Games 22-31 - (9-1-1)

Since December we have been fairly up and down. I'd expect us to start picking up points again after the all star break. We'll suffer at the end of the season because of the high energy game we play though.

I don't think we were ever going to be a buying team at the deadline though, we are still in rebuild, it is still about selling. Even more so with this years draft. We have to remember that a playoff spot this season was always a bonus. Despite how difficult it will be to miss out because of the start the team made.

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01-21-2008, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVTEC View Post
I think an 80% healthy Manny is still the better option over Hannu and Marek. As long as Manny gets a little sharper we can push for the 8th spot. I say just keep running Manny out there until he gets it right again.(As long as his health stabilizes)
Why risk further injuring him when he's bviously not right? And I think it's blatantly obvious that an injured Legace is NOT better than Toivonen at this point. Like you said, 9 goals allowed on 36 shots, the Blues will not win ANY games if Manny keeps letting in 4-5 goals per game.

I say play Hannu until Manny heals, withdraw Manny from the ASG and let him rest for 2 full weeks. This will get Toivonen a few games in a row to get some confidence at the NHL level, and hopefully Manny will have only missed 4 or 5 games. It's certainly a gamble, but one that needs to be made.

Unless of course you think this Blues team can score 5 goals per game and overcome Legace's bad starts while injured.

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01-21-2008, 08:17 PM
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I watched the game... Manny's speed has slowed down a notch.

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01-21-2008, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crackout View Post
I don't think the bottom is falling out just yet, we started off the season as basically a team wth some streaks:

First 8 games - (2-6)
Games 9-16 - (6-2)
Games 17-21 - (1-4)
Games 22-31 - (9-1-1)

Since December we have been fairly up and down. I'd expect us to start picking up points again after the all star break. We'll suffer at the end of the season because of the high energy game we play though.

I don't think we were ever going to be a buying team at the deadline though, we are still in rebuild, it is still about selling. Even more so with this years draft. We have to remember that a playoff spot this season was always a bonus. Despite how difficult it will be to miss out because of the start the team made.
Exactly. The playoffs would be a nice bonus, but this team has made tremendous strides in just a year and a half of rebuilding, but it is still in a rebuild stage.

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01-21-2008, 09:03 PM
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If the Blues end up big sellers at the deadline. Who would likely be on the block? I'm guessing Tkachuk and Backman would garner a little interest. If there ever is a year where it may help to be bad over good I believe this is the year. From most reports this draft is loaded. I would be happy if we ended up around 9 or 10.

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01-21-2008, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SneakerPimp82 View Post
Why risk further injuring him when he's bviously not right? And I think it's blatantly obvious that an injured Legace is NOT better than Toivonen at this point. Like you said, 9 goals allowed on 36 shots, the Blues will not win ANY games if Manny keeps letting in 4-5 goals per game.

I say play Hannu until Manny heals, withdraw Manny from the ASG and let him rest for 2 full weeks. This will get Toivonen a few games in a row to get some confidence at the NHL level, and hopefully Manny will have only missed 4 or 5 games. It's certainly a gamble, but one that needs to be made.

Unless of course you think this Blues team can score 5 goals per game and overcome Legace's bad starts while injured.
Last part of my post: (As long as his health stabilizes) If there is no danger of hurting Manny further, then he needs to be in net. Since this sport is so physical, guys play hurt all the time this time of year so if he can do it, our MVP needs to play. I understand we're "rebuilding" but that is no reason to not go all out and try for the postseason. If you check the standings, we're one hot streak away from being back in the top 8!

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01-21-2008, 09:11 PM
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Tkachuk has a NTC, he's going nowhere. Our biggest bargaining chips are Jackman and Salvador; Rucinsky might have value but at $2,375,000 might be tough to move, and with a NTC may refuse to go. Walker might be worth a 5th for someone wanting depth, he's not worth much more. I don't know what Ryan Johnson might be worth. Backman might have value if we're taking a salary back; everyone else is either (A) someone we don't want to move, or (B) someone who has little trade value right now.

Right now, I have us with a 32% chance of making the playoffs and headed for picking 9th overall at the draft.


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01-21-2008, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crackout View Post
...
I don't think we were ever going to be a buying team at the deadline though, we are still in rebuild, it is still about selling. Even more so with this years draft. We have to remember that a playoff spot this season was always a bonus. Despite how difficult it will be to miss out because of the start the team made.
...
I'm absolutely with you...I will be terribly disappointed if we don't convert tradeable assets into futures at the deadline & beyond this year. The longer we hang around within striking distance of a playoff spot, I fear, the greater the temptation for someone (SCP, JD, etc.) to try to gain something for a final push to accelerate the re-build this year. I'd much prefer a top-10 draft pick and hopefully some more bonus picks for the scouting braintrust.

It is, however, disappointing to see the team's performance in a downward spiral. I guess when one's expectations are set with an overachieving first half, one can only be disappointed when the team comes back to earth.

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01-22-2008, 01:17 AM
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While Weight for Mcdonald was a clear talent upgrade, there is a serious void of veteran leadership on this team. Tkachuk isnt a leader and Paulie isn't the vocal type. Mckee's never won anything, neither has Brewer (in the NHL, and he wasn't a leader on that olympic squad by any stretch). The Blues need a STAR vet defenseman ala Blake and a forward with a winning pedigree to show these kids whats up or the rebuild will take much longer.

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01-22-2008, 03:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthVTEC View Post
Last part of my post: (As long as his health stabilizes) If there is no danger of hurting Manny further, then he needs to be in net. Since this sport is so physical, guys play hurt all the time this time of year so if he can do it, our MVP needs to play. I understand we're "rebuilding" but that is no reason to not go all out and try for the postseason. If you check the standings, we're one hot streak away from being back in the top 8!
The danger isn't necessarily to Manny, it's to the team. Do you honestly believe that an injured Manny letting in 4 goals per game is better than a healthy Toivonen?

I understand it's a physical game, but the goalie position is different from any other on the team. No one can cover any mistakes the goalie makes, and if the goalie is allowing 4 goals a game, the team certainly cannot overcome that.

Again, we can hope that Manny can play through the injury(0-2 so far), or put Toivonen in net, let Manny heal up for the stretch run, and compete. At worst the Blues might go 0-5 with Toivonen in net, but I'm willing to bet that Manny wouldn't do any better while injured. Better to give a healthy Toivonen a chance to prove himself. Of course JD and Co. could just as easily trade for a veteran backup. Either way, Manny needs to sit and heal.

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01-22-2008, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by SneakerPimp82 View Post
The danger isn't necessarily to Manny, it's to the team. Do you honestly believe that an injured Manny letting in 4 goals per game is better than a healthy Toivonen?

I understand it's a physical game, but the goalie position is different from any other on the team. No one can cover any mistakes the goalie makes, and if the goalie is allowing 4 goals a game, the team certainly cannot overcome that.

Again, we can hope that Manny can play through the injury(0-2 so far), or put Toivonen in net, let Manny heal up for the stretch run, and compete. At worst the Blues might go 0-5 with Toivonen in net, but I'm willing to bet that Manny wouldn't do any better while injured. Better to give a healthy Toivonen a chance to prove himself. Of course JD and Co. could just as easily trade for a veteran backup. Either way, Manny needs to sit and heal.
Manny's playing, no matter what. We've still got 2 months left in the season, PLENTY of time for Manny to right his ship before any real playoff implications are involved. Obviously Manny is healthy enough to play, as per AM, so... Tell me, what has a greater chance of happening: Veteran goalie gets over a bad stretch of play, regains form and plays through minor injury to lead team to playoff possibilities, or: Rookie backup gets thrown to the wolves(again), plays lights-out and gets team back on track. Clearly, the former is what the brass is counting on happening and the latter is a near impossibility. With our recent defensive struggles, giving Hannu no.1 minutes would probably shatter the last piece of his confidence whereas Manny has been through the wars and won't let some bad play destroy his psyche.

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01-22-2008, 08:42 AM
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While Weight for Mcdonald was a clear talent upgrade, there is a serious void of veteran leadership on this team. Tkachuk isnt a leader and Paulie isn't the vocal type. Mckee's never won anything, neither has Brewer (in the NHL, and he wasn't a leader on that olympic squad by any stretch). The Blues need a STAR vet defenseman ala Blake and a forward with a winning pedigree to show these kids whats up or the rebuild will take much longer.
There's not many "star vet defensemen" available in the UFA crop this summer; Johnson will get there, but he's 2 years away. The leadership on this team will have to come from the youth, since that's where the future of this team lies in about 3-4 years. Yeah, it would be nice to get someone from outside to "show the way" but someone in the system has to be the one to say, "I'll take charge, I'll be the go-to guy who'll hold everyone's feet to the fire."

We've brought in veterans to be leaders, and as a result not developed one from within. The future leaders of this team have to assert themselves soon, not wait for someone else to tell them what to do.

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01-22-2008, 09:00 AM
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Future leaders assert themselves after being shown how to conduct themselves as professionals by the veterans.

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01-22-2008, 09:09 AM
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It all depends on the injury. I'd rather rest Manny now than push him hard this season and have it linger into next season.

This season is a wash in my mind, if we start next season with Manny on the IR, we're screwed.

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01-22-2008, 09:16 AM
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Future leaders assert themselves after being shown how to conduct themselves as professionals by the veterans.
Barret Jackman had "future captain" written all over him when he was drafted. Is it possible that the "veterans" we had who were the leaders on the team sucked all those intangible qualities out of him over the last few years?

Some people are just natural leaders. I think we've got the potential for a few of the younger guys to be leaders on this team, it's just that "the establishment" has been given the reins and told to be leaders and everyone else has to fall in, and the guys who've been in charge haven't exactly been role models of leadership.

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