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Old
01-22-2008, 01:37 PM
  #26
STAALing
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckhead58 View Post
Personally, from what I seen this year, I would put S Kostitsyn ahead of Price on the list.
Everybody has overrated Price and hyped him up so much that everybody thinks he is the second coming of Christ. I know he will be a huge player for the Habs in the future, but he has a lot of work to do before that happens.

S Kostitsyn has played solid since he was called up and he doesn't look out of place. Price had his struggles and looked like he needs some work adjusting to the NHL game speed....so that right there puts Kostitsyn ahead of Price in my eyes....but thats just my opinion.
You don't understand how ranking prospects works.

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01-22-2008, 01:38 PM
  #27
montreal
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Originally Posted by Mue View Post
I'm a little curious regarding Subban. Has he improved his play in his own end this season?
Well I don't recall seeing him in the OHL last year so I can't say if he has improved his play in his own end. I will say that when I saw him this year, I was impressed and didn't really notice any major problems with his play. That said I haven't seen a lot of him and likely won't until he turns pro.

I see all our prospects play in games at some point (haven't seen Torp yet) but some guys I only see a little of, so it's hard to get a good feel for them as they might have had an off night or an unusually strong night. That said I do have some contacts all over the place from when I wrote for HF and on top of that I try to talk to fans of the teams our prospects play for just to get any additional info. Then I try and put it all together. Once you get past a certain number, say top 7 or 8 this time (it will vary based on depth) the difference between spots becomes thinner and thinner while also becoming more and more difficult to place players.

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Old
01-22-2008, 01:38 PM
  #28
WeThreeKings
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
At this point last year, Carle had pretty similar stats (better actually) to what Weber has this year. Given that Carle has done that, and proven he can provide offense at a professional level as well, I can see why he would be rated a little higher.

What I want to know, is why Subban is rated substantially higher than either? He's also ranked above Valentenko and Fischer, both of whom I think I prefer.
I'm not sure which way I lean on Carle and Weber, but Weber is putting up points in the OHL which > QMJHL.

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Old
01-22-2008, 01:57 PM
  #29
montreal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
At this point last year, Carle had pretty similar stats (better actually) to what Weber has this year. Given that Carle has done that, and proven he can provide offense at a professional level as well, I can see why he would be rated a little higher.

What I want to know, is why Subban is rated substantially higher than either? He's also ranked above Valentenko and Fischer, both of whom I think I prefer.
Valentenko I admit I wasn't his biggest fan in the little I saw of him, and he struggled in Hamilton early on from what I saw. But recently he's been a lot better and I am impressed how quickly he's adjusted to the smaller ice.

Fischer it's just that his development has gone slowly so I dropped him a few spots.

Subban I like a lot, I think he's got a lot of upside if he can improve his defensive game. He's got an impressive compact frame, skates so well with good speed, so he's got a nice mix of physical and natural offensive skills, nice to see for the 18 year old.

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Old
01-22-2008, 02:18 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckhead58 View Post
Personally, from what I seen this year, I would put S Kostitsyn ahead of Price on the list.
Everybody has overrated Price and hyped him up so much that everybody thinks he is the second coming of Christ. I know he will be a huge player for the Habs in the future, but he has a lot of work to do before that happens.
The brief stint Price had in Montreal have virtually no effects to the potential he has. Therefore I think he should still be the clear cut #1. Every goalie has a lot of work to do to hit NHL level and from what we saw the kid is not that far from being there. However, I'm afraid a lot of people, unlike you, will associate those handful of games to the player he will turn into (guys at 110%). I hope the fans are patient with him because a goalie can bloom only around 25. I wouldn't want that mistake to be reproduced...

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Old
01-22-2008, 02:53 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal View Post
Did a mid season top 20 on my site, here's the list,

Top 20

1. Carey Price
2. Siarhei Kostitsyn
3. Max Pacioretty
4. Ryan McDonagh
5. Kyle Chipchura
6. Ryan O’Byrne
7. Jaroslav Halak
8. Matt D’Agostini
9. PK Subban
10. David Fischer
11. Mikhail Grabovski
12. Ryan White
13. Ben Maxwell
14. Pavel Valentenko
15. J T Wyman
16. Mathieu Carle
17. Yanick Weber
18. Alexei Emelin
19. Philippe Paquet
20. Greg Stewart

HM Joe Stejskal, Mathieu Aubin, Corey Locke


I suspect some will not be happy with the list so fire away. I thought of moving Maxwell down and guys like Carle and Weber higher but it's hard to do as I have high hopes for Maxwell down the road although I like what I've seen from Carle and Weber too.
Good list. I like it. It resembles mine.

1. Carey Price - who else
2. Siarhei Kostitsyn - There is a lot to like there.
3. Max Pacioretty - just because he seems closer to reaching his potential than McDo, since he's forward
4. Ryan McDonagh
5. Kyle Chipchura
6. Ryan O’Byrne
7. Jaroslav Halak
8. Alexei Emelin - I just think if he comes over, he'll get to the NHL a lot quicker than some think. Half a season in the AHL maybe to be in the top 4 after 1-1/2 season.
9. Matt D’Agostini - moves down one spot, but is getting close
10. Pavel Valentenko - split next year between Mtl and Hamilton
11. Mathieu Carle - could play some games next year with the big boys
12. PK Subban - a few years away, will have to learn the game first
13. Yanick Weber - see Subban
14. David Fischer - after this year, I still don't see him in the NHL for another 3 years
15. Mikhail Grabovski - could surprise, but I see him as nothing more a call up now and then
16. Ryan White - skating will hold him back
17. Ben Maxwell - I get the feeling he'll never be healthy enough to challenge for a job
18. J T Wyman - Hopefully his newly found scoring touch isn't just because he's a senior, but...
19. Philippe Paquet - Somewhere between O'byrne and Archer, including the time on the IR. Hopefully closer to O'Byrne
20. Greg Stewart - You know he'll give all he has, will it be enough to get to Mtl, only as a 4th liner.

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Old
01-22-2008, 03:44 PM
  #32
Maxpac
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I would of prefered Conboy to Stewart as the last propect in the top 20 as i think that h ehas ALOT more chances of ever playing for us, cause of the ruff stuff he like so much. D'Agostini has alot less potential then many of the guys mentiioned under him, i don't see him being much then an average 3rd liner, hope i'm wrong. Awesome list and really happy to see that even if he's having a harder time right now S. Kost's potential is not forgotten, one day this kid will be special

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Old
01-22-2008, 03:58 PM
  #33
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Personally, I would tend to put Weber way higher, I think this kid has wonderful potential..

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Old
01-22-2008, 04:03 PM
  #34
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Just a quick question:

Is Emelin so low because he has a contract in Russia, or because his game isn't progressing?

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Old
01-22-2008, 04:03 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
I'd probably just move Grabovski down to 18 and everyone else up. .
+1 .

Grab has a lot of skills but he isn't enough strong for the NHL

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Old
01-22-2008, 04:13 PM
  #36
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We need Cogliano, Gagner, and Schremp to tie it up. Then our future is set in stone.

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Old
01-22-2008, 04:36 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #ZAMBONI# View Post
+1 .

Grab has a lot of skills but he isn't enough strong for the NHL
And if he does get strong enough for the NHL, we may have hell of a player on our team.

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Old
01-22-2008, 04:39 PM
  #38
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Not bad, but some players are not where they should be in my mind.

My list will look like:

Top 20

1. Carey Price (no surprise, but I have doubts about him)
2. Sergei Kostitsyn (he's been at this position since last year already for me, he is just confirming his potential)
3. Ryan McDonagh
4. Max Pacioretty
5. Ryan O’Byrne
6. Jaroslav Halak
7. Kyle Chipchura
8. Matt D’Agostini
9. David Fischer
10. Yannick Weber
11. Ryan White
12. Mikhail Grabovski
13. Ben Maxwell
14. P. K. Subban
15. Alexei Emelin
16. J. T. Wyman
17. Mathieu Carle
18. Pavel Valentenko
19. Andrew Conboy
20. Ryan Russell

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Old
01-22-2008, 04:44 PM
  #39
montreal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
I would of prefered Conboy to Stewart as the last propect in the top 20 as i think that h ehas ALOT more chances of ever playing for us, cause of the ruff stuff he like so much. D'Agostini has alot less potential then many of the guys mentiioned under him, i don't see him being much then an average 3rd liner, hope i'm wrong. Awesome list and really happy to see that even if he's having a harder time right now S. Kost's potential is not forgotten, one day this kid will be special
Do you see a lot of the USHL?

As for D'Agostini I think he'll see some time in the NHL within a year, he's got decent offensive skills, good speed and if he can add some mass to his frame he could turn into a decent nhler as he's still young. 2nd on the Dogs, in goals, assists and points and that's after a slow start.

Conboy I'll see more of him next year, he certainly has an impressive frame and he's going to a top notch program but until I see more of him it's hard to get a good feel for him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHabsArea View Post
Personally, I would tend to put Weber way higher, I think this kid has wonderful potential..
I like what I've seen for sure, but I usually rate the guys in junior lower until I see how they handle the pros. Weber is on a very good team so it will be interesting to see how he does in Hamilton next year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AD View Post
Just a quick question:

Is Emelin so low because he has a contract in Russia, or because his game isn't progressing?
He's not having a great season from what I'm told, I haven't seen him play since the WC's last April. But I have major concerns about him coming over. I hope we see him in the next year or two but until he's over here I will hold off on ranking him too high.

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Old
01-22-2008, 05:53 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckhead58 View Post
I don't fully understand what this list is for...but can you explain what Price done to earn the #1 spot on it? Was it the way he folded when he was starting every game when Huet went down, or was it the way he got sent back to Hamilton and continued to stink it up??? Maybe it was the crying session he had after his last start in Montreal.

There are other players that I would have ahead of Price, but like I said, I don't understand what this list is for.
This is a prospect list. He has a winning record in the NHL. Because he had a few bad games and got sent back to the AHL doesn't earn him a demotion in prospect rank. You are erasing everything he has ever accomplished because of a few bad games and that is unfair. The fact he cried after his last start means he cares which is more than what we can say about some of our players. McDonaugh didn't get selected to the U.S Junior team, I guess we can consider him a total failure too...

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Old
01-22-2008, 06:01 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal View Post

I like what I've seen for sure, but I usually rate the guys in junior lower until I see how they handle the pros. Weber is on a very good team so it will be interesting to see how he does in Hamilton next year.
Exactly. Habs fans are overrating Weber like they overrate most prospects. I'm high on Weber too, but until I see what he can do in the A, Carle is in front of him as he's doing great out there.

Great list!

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Old
01-22-2008, 06:02 PM
  #42
jaffy27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weztex View Post
The brief stint Price had in Montreal have virtually no effects to the potential he has. Therefore I think he should still be the clear cut #1. Every goalie has a lot of work to do to hit NHL level and from what we saw the kid is not that far from being there. However, I'm afraid a lot of people, unlike you, will associate those handful of games to the player he will turn into (guys at 110%). I hope the fans are patient with him because a goalie can bloom only around 25. I wouldn't want that mistake to be reproduced...

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Good find, I hope this will settle some of our scatter brain fans down. It seems everytime one of our prospects has a tough time, everyone gives up on him and is ready to call him a complete bust and wants Timmins's head on a platter. Just for fun, look at who the habs have drafted in the 90's, and look who they have drafted in the last 6 years, it's like night and day, like black and white.

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Old
01-22-2008, 06:23 PM
  #43
Watsatheo
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Great work as always.

I'm going to go on ahead and post my list as well just because I have an unhealthy amount of free time lately.


1) Price
2) McDonagh
3) Kostitsyn
4) Pacioretty
5) Halak
6) Chipchura
7) O'Byrne
8) Subban
9) Fischer
10) D'Agostini
11) Grabovski (15 career NHL games and he's already seen as a bust by most. )
12) Maxwell
13) Valentenko
14) White
15) Carle
16) Yemelin
17) Weber
18) Wyman
19) Stewart
20) Paquet




This list was based on games I've watched, highlights, reputation, the player's name aesthetics, luck, and instincts.

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Old
01-22-2008, 07:00 PM
  #44
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Man..

Yannick Weber > PK Subban.

I like Subban.. but Weber has been insane this season.

Subban was picked in the 2nd round, I think Weber was a 4th round selection. Subban was supposed to be an offensive dynamo, while Weber was supposed to be a project.

Subban is scoring at .83 PPG. Weber is scoring at a 1.19 PPG pace.

Subban has seen a very slim offensive improvement so far (like 0.05 PPG) well Weber is scoring at a much higher rate. And yeah, I know that Weber is 1/2 a year older.. but Subban has the advantage of 1) Playing North American hockey his whole life & 2) Playing an extra year in the OHL compared to Weber up to this point.

Both their OHL teams are very good, so there is no advantage either way. Both defenseman don't have a huge amount of size, though Subban is a bit bigger.. however Weber has racked up a bunch of PIMs in the "O".. so he does have an Edge.


Last edited by One Man Rock Band: 01-22-2008 at 07:16 PM.
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