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Old
01-26-2004, 06:40 AM
  #1
thome_26
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Lowe?

I know I believe I've posted this - but after the last couple of games where the Oilers really could have made some serious ground and seriously improved their chances to make the playoffs, the Oilers came out flat. Now, people can say "in the end it's up to the players to get up for the game" - but there are coaches who excell at getting them to get themselves up for the game. To me Lowe was absolutely exceptional - his constant fire and passion game in and game out was huge for the young team. It is obvious that the players aren't ready to play a full 60 minutes under MacT. Only thing MacT does is drop an f-bomb and gets penalized for it. Lowe would scream and yell and turn red all at once - but he didn't take penalties and he fired up the club.

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01-26-2004, 06:53 AM
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The Rage
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Yeah, Lowe was kicka$$ in the going nuts department. Even his haters have to love his enthusiasm and comittment. Lowe behind the bench would be good. For all intents and purposes, it's the only possibility, since we can't afford to pay for another guy to come in (though I imagine Low would get a raise if this happened).

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01-26-2004, 07:08 AM
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Any chance of Lowe taking the seat behind the bench for the rest of the season? MacT gets demoted to Assistant Coach.

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01-26-2004, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USC Trojans
Any chance of Lowe taking the seat behind the bench for the rest of the season? MacT gets demoted to Assistant Coach.
Any chance of Nash getting 20 assists this season?
the question I ask and the one you ask both are answered with the same big loud NO!

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01-26-2004, 02:54 PM
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dawgbone
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You play a team you are 4 points behind twice in a week, and you need a coach to get you fired up?

Does anyone else think that this is a problem?

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01-26-2004, 02:58 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
You play a team you are 4 points behind twice in a week, and you need a coach to get you fired up?

Does anyone else think that this is a problem?
If the team has quit on the coach, then the coach is part of the problem. Maybe not the whole problem, but a big part.

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01-26-2004, 03:40 PM
  #7
The Rage
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
You play a team you are 4 points behind twice in a week, and you need a coach to get you fired up?

Does anyone else think that this is a problem?
A coach is supposed to get these guys fired up. Other coaches can do it, but MacT can't. I think you ignore this aspect of coaching in your defenses of MacT, as you seem to believe coaching is a completely cerebral excercise.

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01-26-2004, 03:52 PM
  #8
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I know I'm going against the grain here but I don't think MacT is that bad of a coach (a better question could be if he is the right coach for THIS team). I do get frustrated with some of his moves but if you look at what he has done over the last 3 years, it would be fair to say he has managed decent results (regular season anyways).

I think the biggest problem with MacT's approach is that he is having some trouble in managing offensive talent this year more than he has in the past. He is obviously more comfortable with his bottom 6 forwards than his top six. Maybe it's because he was a career 3rd liner and therefore can identify better with that type of player. This is especially evident if the team is struggling as whole. He tends to play the safe players (defensive players) in an attempt at damage control as opposed to letting the horses out and taking a few risks to jump start a sputtering team. I say Lowe could do a very simply thing to basically take this problem out of MacT's hands.

When I look at this years edition of the Oilers, I see a team that has more overall talent than teams of the last few years. They don't have that one real good player such as Doug Weight but they do have 6, 7 or 8 guys that if played properly should all have decent point totals. The talent is much more spread out than the 1 line + teams of the past.

This is my main source of frustration with MacT, such as Saturday against Nashville the team is struggling or trying to come back in a game and he doesn't really shorten the bench. In reference to Saturday, the guys rallied from 4 goals down to only down by two with most of the third to go, they had the Preds on their heals and MacT was playing Pisani, Moreau and Horcoff down the stretch.

He had Smyth, Oates, Hemsky, Isbister, Dvorak, York, Torres to draw on but seemed to play the third line more than any other. That, if there was ever a time, was when he should have shortened the bench and went all offense- damn the defence and let the team sink or swim based on the talent he had to utilize. The team was losing badly, started to rally but was still going to lose irregadless of how safe or reckless Mact was willing to let the players play. BUT at the same time, they had a little momentum going and their best shot at actually coming back was to rally around the offence.

Now the main point of the reponse is as far as Lowe goes, the best think he could do right now is force MacT into using the talent that he has brought in. The best way he can do that is to ship off some of these guys that are such favorites of MacT. I would like to see Horcoff and Pisani traded first and foremost. Not because I think they suck or anything but because I don't think they really fit the team. I can't see either of them progressing offensively and I don't think this team needs to be built with a dedicated checking line like the teams of the past. By moving these kinds of guys, it will force MacT to use his offensive players more and more. (Still ranting about Saturday here, but I found it almost criminal to see Smyth, Hemsky and Oates sitting on the bench for the last 7 minutes of the game)

When I look at the team Lowe is building, I don't see them having a real first line but having a good solid core of forwards. Obviously only time will tell wether you can succeed without 1 or 2 premier talents but until it is proven one way or another I think the need for a checking third line becomes obsolete. If you can throw out 3 lines that basically have equal offensive threat potential and all play sound defensively then why the need for guys like Pisani and Horcoff other than to make the coach comfortable.

I like the idea of a traditional 4th line built for energy but based on the personell MacT has, I think Pisani and Horcoff don't fit. In the mean time guys like Chimera are bounced in and out of the line up and guys like Rita are kept on the farm. These guys need to learn and need to play through their mistakes while doing so but they are kept out by guys that will never be more than what they already are. That, in my opinion, is a mistake. Their building a team on potential and next year, but yet they are playing the few guys that are probably never going to be more than they already are.

I would like to see a forward corps of (not necessaily in terms of these lines with the exception of the 4th);

Isbister, Oates, Smyth
Torres, York, Dvorak
Chimera, Reasoner, Hemsky
Moreau, Stoll, Laraque

I also think it's self defeating to talk about trading a guy like Smyth. He is a good hockey player and any return would be lateral at best. We are not going to see a star in return so why get rid of the closest thing we have to one?

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Old
01-26-2004, 04:13 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rage
A coach is supposed to get these guys fired up. Other coaches can do it, but MacT can't. I think you ignore this aspect of coaching in your defenses of MacT, as you seem to believe coaching is a completely cerebral excercise.
I think what he was getting at is that in a situation like that, the players shouldn't need a "rah-rah" coach to get up for a game. These guys are professionals, they're supposed to care, they're supposed to want to win. A game against a team you need to catch, that just kicked your ass a couple of games ago, and the players just didn't seem to care.

There's got to be a problem. Maybe they don't want to play for MacT. Maybe they just don't care if they win. The effort we saw on Saturday certainly indicates that something is wrong. Some players should move. And I see Paul Maurice has some spare time on his hands...

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Old
01-26-2004, 04:46 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
You play a team you are 4 points behind twice in a week, and you need a coach to get you fired up?

Does anyone else think that this is a problem?
As you think, no team needs a coach for anything. Why the hell the players need the enthusiasm, the passion, the desire while they cannot see those from their head coach. What is the point to tell that he (MacT) is happy with what he saw in the first period in the Predator game? Is that all he wants to see is to trail 0-2 ? Any player in that dressing room can do that, let alone any level coaches.

Cut it loose, Please Kevin. Your young and talented players need a more suitable coach than MacT

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01-26-2004, 04:58 PM
  #11
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I think the players have to look at themselves .How can you NOT get up for every home game in a City that lives and breathes hockey ???Its everywhere , heck theres more Oiler coverage in July than 90% of Yankee based teams receive in December in their local rags ..i mean i could see you dogging it in FLA, Coracrap or Anaslime where there are about a dozen fans who know anything about the game .But EDMONTON ..these guys are treated better than NFL and NBA stars here .Guys like Pisa and Chimera are like Michael Jordans in edmonton ..GODS.
If these guys need MacT or K-Lo to get them up for any game ..something wrong with the players .

That being said its obvious this team is spinning its wheels in the Alberta mud and maybe its time to some major changes ..clean house if you will and start getting ready for the proverbial "next year".


Last edited by Hydroponic Harold: 01-26-2004 at 05:01 PM.
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01-26-2004, 05:08 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xauxi
As you think, no team needs a coach for anything. Why the hell the players need the enthusiasm, the passion, the desire while they cannot see those from their head coach. What is the point to tell that he (MacT) is happy with what he saw in the first period in the Predator game? Is that all he wants to see is to trail 0-2 ? Any player in that dressing room can do that, let alone any level coaches.

Cut it loose, Please Kevin. Your young and talented players need a more suitable coach than MacT
This isn't frigging Columbus or Pittsburgh 21 games into the season.

This is the 50 game mark against a team you need to beat to get into the playoffs. If a coach has to get you fired up for this kind of game, there is obviously something wrong with the players.

My God, the fans were pumped for these games against the preds (must wins), are you honestly telling me that the players need their coach to get them up for a game of this magnitude?

Sorry, I don't buy it.

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01-26-2004, 05:17 PM
  #13
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I agree with Dawgbone, there should be no reason for the coach to need to motivate these guys.

Is it possible that this team has a bit of an identity crisis when it comes to leading by example?

I think the leaders they have in the room are good. they have some guys with real character but in the past they also had one or two talented (or somewhat talented) guys that elevated their play when needed to get the team going.

Doug Weight became that guy, Guerin and even to a certain extent Marchant but with this edition there doesn't seem to be that guy.

There is more spread out talent but each guy seems to be waiting for the next guy to step up and nobody is willing to volunteer.

Smyth has some of that in him but his struggles this year are obvious, York has been very good and steady but probably doesn't have much more of a next level to offer and instead of the team being inspired by him, they are taking his production for granted.

What about guys like Isbister or Oates or even Dvorak they all should have the ability to step up more and yet no body is willing.

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01-26-2004, 05:55 PM
  #14
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OK, but if NO ONE is willing to step up, then the coaching staff HAS to. They can let Lowe know that there's no one stepping up to get the players going, but when it's clear that the players AREN'T stepping it up, then the coaching staff has to find ways to do it themselves.

There's enough blame here to go around to everyone, and when one 'group' isn't getting it done, another one has to step up.

Lowe is supposed to be the last guy to do something, where he makes a trade to get rid of one of the under-performing guys.

So we're left with players who don't get themselves (and each other) fired up for big games, and it *seems* like the coaching staff doesn't do anything (or enough) either...and then we see games like Saturday night and even earlier. <sigh>

Something's gotta change, but it looks very precarious now to make the playoffs and Lowe must be going crazy. At some point he might get a good enough offer to make a big move for the future (another 1st-round pick or two, blue-chip prospects, young guys in the NHL, etc.) and give up on this season, but I'm sure it's the last thing he wants to do...

Bart

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01-26-2004, 06:07 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
This isn't frigging Columbus or Pittsburgh 21 games into the season.

This is the 50 game mark against a team you need to beat to get into the playoffs. If a coach has to get you fired up for this kind of game, there is obviously something wrong with the players.

My God, the fans were pumped for these games against the preds (must wins), are you honestly telling me that the players need their coach to get them up for a game of this magnitude?

Sorry, I don't buy it.
Here is a good article. It has happened to Darryl Sutter, Pat Burns, Ken Hitchcock, Mike Keenan....and it is beginning to look like MacTavish as well.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/columns/frei_terry/1473907.html

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01-26-2004, 07:08 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
You play a team you are 4 points behind twice in a week, and you need a coach to get you fired up?

Does anyone else think that this is a problem?

The coach puts out the same power play unit for the last 12 or so games that has not produced. Yes, I think coaching is a big problem on this team.

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01-26-2004, 07:14 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axis
The coach puts out the same power play unit for the last 12 or so games that has not produced. Yes, I think coaching is a big problem on this team.

Playing a sick goalie (Salo with the flu) doesn't seem very smart either. Especially if you want to see what Conkin is able to do in a huge game.

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01-26-2004, 08:20 PM
  #18
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Coaching is a problem and the mix of players is a problem. Who put it all together? Lowe. So maybe Lowe is a problem as well.

MacT has been discussed at length but I agree that these players, in this city, with these fans at this time of year, shouldn't need to be motivated by someone else.

Who on this team can honestly be named a complete leader? How many are truely character guys and not either too young or follower.

Character guys (not greatly talented)- Smith, Moreau, Staios
Talented followers- York(great on the ice quiet), Dvorak,Smyth (this year at least),Brewer,Reasoner
Soft and inconsistant- Horcoff,Isbister,Laraque,
Too young to lead- Hemsky, Stoll,Semenov,Bergeron,orres
Pluggers- Ferguson, Cross, Ulanov
Oates-too much of a disappointment to lead anyone

Missed some but this team just doesn't look like it has what it takes to be a winner.

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01-26-2004, 08:27 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axis
Playing a sick goalie (Salo with the flu) doesn't seem very smart either. Especially if you want to see what Conkin is able to do in a huge game.
Conklin is 0-2-2 in his last 4 starts against Minnesota, Vancouver, Long Island and Columbus.

Conversely, Salo had a GAA under 2 in his last 10 games. Sometimes you need to gamble that your goalie and players will be able to put something together.

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01-26-2004, 08:29 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axis
The coach puts out the same power play unit for the last 12 or so games that has not produced. Yes, I think coaching is a big problem on this team.
The powerplay has been 5 for 30 (16.7%) in the last 6 games...

That is hardly not producing.

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01-26-2004, 10:18 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rage
A coach is supposed to get these guys fired up. Other coaches can do it, but MacT can't. I think you ignore this aspect of coaching in your defenses of MacT, as you seem to believe coaching is a completely cerebral excercise.
Bottom line is that its the players who are on the ice. For the $$ they earn, they should be able to get pumped up and play with energy. Heck, probably a number of us are "weekend warriors" in our collective sports. We get pumped up for free...

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01-27-2004, 07:08 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
The powerplay has been 5 for 30 (16.7%) in the last 6 games...

That is hardly not producing.

How on earth can you defend our power play? What is it 28th or 29th in the league?

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01-27-2004, 07:30 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axis
How on earth can you defend our power play? What is it 28th or 29th in the league?
Did I say all season, or did I say 6 games?

thanks.

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Old
01-27-2004, 08:25 PM
  #24
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Somehow, I think MacT's thinking is not fast enough for the system that he invented. He is only quick enough to grab the Flame's dog tounge for once. Too many cases to reckon, those could have been better results if he acts a little quicker. It took him a dozen of games to figure out Ty could relieve Tommy bad streches. In the Predator game, it took him 40 minutes to figure out that Tommy was not ready for the game. It took him 40 minutes to create some "mental energy" for his players. How many games that the Oilers have come out flat for the first one or two periods? I wonder there enough talk and preps for the game between the coach and the players. If I was a player and see my coach does not care to keep up with the flow of the game, then why should I?

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01-27-2004, 08:52 PM
  #25
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I don't know if the coach has to necessarily get the players into games like this but what I saw on Saturday night was a coach who was taking them out of it. Players know what should be done during games. Who should be on the ice in certain situations etc. They see, they talk, and when decisions that more and more of them disagree with keep happening that tends to flatten the mood on the bench. Just my observation.

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