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Old
01-27-2004, 09:04 PM
  #26
copperandblue
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Originally Posted by theoil
I don't know if the coach has to necessarily get the players into games like this but what I saw on Saturday night was a coach who was taking them out of it. Players know what should be done during games. Who should be on the ice in certain situations etc. They see, they talk, and when decisions that more and more of them disagree with keep happening that tends to flatten the mood on the bench. Just my observation.
And yet as futile as the effort was, the team almost climbed back from 4 goals in only 20 minutes of play.

The problem was the players (not the coach) weren't ready at 8:00.

I'm not defending MacT's decisions because I didn't agree with the third line playing in the final 7 minutes of the third but I also don't think it's fair to say that MacT flattened the mood on the bench.

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01-27-2004, 09:15 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by copperandblue
I'm not defending MacT's decisions because I didn't agree with the third line playing in the final 7 minutes of the third but I also don't think it's fair to say that MacT flattened the mood on the bench.
He did in the last 7 minutes by your own admission. He did by not putting Conklin in after the first period when it was obvious that Tommy couldn't go. He started the fourth line at the beginning of the game. I'm betting that flattened the mood. Of course he had to find playing time for the leading goal scorer after he put him on the fourth line, I'll bet that flattened the mood.

I am not saying that this team doesn't have problems and not having a number one line is a big one and that is related to losing Comrie but I do think that the players are not playing with great enthusiam and I think that some of that has to do with them wondering what the heck the coach is doing or wondering if they are being outcoached night after night.

I have reluctantly come to the conclusion that MacTavish is not part of the solution.

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01-27-2004, 09:27 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by theoil
He did in the last 7 minutes by your own admission. He did by not putting Conklin in after the first period when it was obvious that Tommy couldn't go. He started the fourth line at the beginning of the game. I'm betting that flattened the mood. Of course he had to find playing time for the leading goal scorer after he put him on the fourth line, I'll bet that flattened the mood.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean by "flattened the mood" but the way I see it, because the team came back and just fell short in the last minute, it suggests that the team did not experience a "flattened mood" on the bench.

Again, I think it's fair to question MacT's decisions, the ones you mention are legitimate (although starting the 4th line at the beginning of the game is not that unusual and at times has been very effective) but as far as how the team responded around his decisions I think it's fair to say they picked up if anything.

Problem was the game started at 8:00 but the players showed up at 9:45.

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01-27-2004, 11:48 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by xauxi
Somehow, I think MacT's thinking is not fast enough for the system that he invented. He is only quick enough to grab the Flame's dog tounge for once. Too many cases to reckon, those could have been better results if he acts a little quicker. It took him a dozen of games to figure out Ty could relieve Tommy bad streches. In the Predator game, it took him 40 minutes to figure out that Tommy was not ready for the game. It took him 40 minutes to create some "mental energy" for his players. How many games that the Oilers have come out flat for the first one or two periods? I wonder there enough talk and preps for the game between the coach and the players. If I was a player and see my coach does not care to keep up with the flow of the game, then why should I?
xauxi, I think you are 90% right on the money with this post. However, I do think MacT does "care to keep up with the flow of the game," he is just not a gifted bench coach. His personal style is to stay-the-course with his chosen personnel in the heat-of-battle. The examples you cited are revealing instances of how the Oilers lose momentum and why they have difficulty turning games that start to go badly around. Unfortunately, because MacT takes such a conservative approach to the big decision coaching questions during game play, he tends to tinker to much with the line combos and who gets PP playing time.

IMHO, the 1st and 2nd PP units should become fixed and allowed to gell and succeed. If the players who should get the job done don't, because they refuse to make the simple play then they should be sat down. If a goalie struggles early, then pull him before he lets in a third bad goal. Even if it is for a shift or two. Having a team ready to be gritty and in your face is what coaches get paid to do. When a team comes out flat it is because they haven't been sufficiently motivated by the coaching staff -- and that is the bottom line.

That is why for two years now I have been calling for a head coaching change. Keep MacT as an assistant, because he is a good strategist (i.e. his pre-planned stick measurement calls to get 5 - 3 advantages), but he is a poor tactician as a bench head coach because Coach Craig seems to have a poor feel for the games when they are in progress. Players, like you point out xauxi, who do have a better game feel, do appear to become agitated, nervous, apprehensive and then start to try to do to much. This is when team play falls apart and individual players begin making the big gaffs, giveaways, forced & unforced errors, and lose their player assignments. Frustration with poor transitional play leads to players taking dumb penalties.

That is why the Oilers need to make a head coaching change and resist the urge to trade away the experienced core players they have now. Keeping the existing core means the rebuild will progress much quicker. Plus as many of us have pointed out, it is and will be a buyer's market until a new CBA is inked. Why lose value until a player forces Lowe's hand. I think, given the right trade, the Oilers should add short term value not dispose of it. Maybe the Oilers should try platooning their coaches like Minny does with their goalies. Try Huddy out for while, then Billy, then Simpson. This team can't really get worse in the coaching department. If you can tinker with the player line combos why can't it be done with the coaching staff. Realignment of the respective coaching duties and responsibilities. It shouldn't become an ego issue either. If players are required to check their egos at the dressing room doors to facilitate team play and promote a winning attitude, then shouldn't coaches be expected to do the same?

Hey maybe platooning coaching will catch-on like having different directors responsible for individual mini-series episodes. A different directors for when the Oilers visit Broadway. This is live entertainment adapted for television after-all. Maybe having different coaching leaders responsible for perparing a team for and executing a game plan against specific opponents would work. Certainly, players would be used differently and maybe a new team identity would emerge. Creative problem solving means using the existing parts to better use, in order to produce a bigger, better, smarter, and more successful solution.

Right now the Oilers are less than the sum of their parts. Just changing older parts for newer parts won't help that much. The newer parts might work out better some of the time but reliability will always be and issue. True creative change must be develped from within the Oilers organization. Hiring a Ted Nolan without a commitment from the Oilers' brass to really change the current Oilers identity would be a recipe for continuing failure. So I would submit that creative change from within is what is needed. Who really knows anyway? Maybe new rotating Head coaches Billy Moores, Charlie Huddy, Craig Simpson, yes and even Craig MacTavish every once in a while would work. With even an guest Head coaching shot from Kevin Lowe at least once a year this new coaching structure might become the new NHL Hockey trend. It would certainly shake things up, because lets face it this team is down and soon will be out!

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01-28-2004, 02:50 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OYLer
[B]xauxi[/B
That is why the Oilers need to make a head coaching change and resist the urge to trade away the experienced core players they have now. Keeping the existing core means the rebuild will progress much quicker. Plus as many of us have pointed out, it is and will be a buyer's market until a new CBA is inked. Why lose value until a player forces Lowe's hand. I think, given the right trade, the Oilers should add short term value not dispose of it. Maybe the Oilers should try platooning their coaches like Minny does with their goalies. Try Huddy out for while, then Billy, then Simpson. This team can't really get worse in the coaching department. If you can tinker with the player line combos why can't it be done with the coaching staff. Realignment of the respective coaching duties and responsibilities. It shouldn't become an ego issue either. If players are required to check their egos at the dressing room doors to facilitate team play and promote a winning attitude, then shouldn't coaches be expected to do the same?

Hey maybe platooning coaching will catch-on like having different directors responsible for individual mini-series episodes. A different directors for when the Oilers visit Broadway. This is live entertainment adapted for television after-all. Maybe having different coaching leaders responsible for perparing a team for and executing a game plan against specific opponents would work. Certainly, players would be used differently and maybe a new team identity would emerge. Creative problem solving means using the existing parts to better use, in order to produce a bigger, better, smarter, and more successful solution.

Right now the Oilers are less than the sum of their parts. Just changing older parts for newer parts won't help that much. The newer parts might work out better some of the time but reliability will always be and issue. True creative change must be develped from within the Oilers organization. Hiring a Ted Nolan without a commitment from the Oilers' brass to really change the current Oilers identity would be a recipe for continuing failure. So I would submit that creative change from within is what is needed. Who really knows anyway? Maybe new rotating Head coaches Billy Moores, Charlie Huddy, Craig Simpson, yes and even Craig MacTavish every once in a while would work. With even an guest Head coaching shot from Kevin Lowe at least once a year this new coaching structure might become the new NHL Hockey trend. It would certainly shake things up, because lets face it this team is down and soon will be out!

OYler, Your idea may be the best that I have heard on this board. The Oilers do not want any sizable turbulence in the coaching staffs, and thus rotating coaching will likely to ignite some COACH's responsible, in turn will enlighten the Players' spirit and attitute. Somehow, I think MacT feels untouchable for whatever he has done, any therefore, he could try to do hundred different ways without results and still keep doing abnormal things. I myself support the Oilers coaching staffs, but they should be more responsible to the team in term of showed results. Rotating coaching staffs will preserve the system, yet blow some fresh air and innovative idea, which stimulates the players' enthusiasm, and will yield better results (we cannnot getting worse than we have now, can we?).
Brilliant idea, Oyler.

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Old
01-28-2004, 03:26 PM
  #31
Digger12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OYLer
Right now the Oilers are less than the sum of their parts. Just changing older parts for newer parts won't help that much. The newer parts might work out better some of the time but reliability will always be and issue. True creative change must be develped from within the Oilers organization. Hiring a Ted Nolan without a commitment from the Oilers' brass to really change the current Oilers identity would be a recipe for continuing failure. So I would submit that creative change from within is what is needed. Who really knows anyway? Maybe new rotating Head coaches Billy Moores, Charlie Huddy, Craig Simpson, yes and even Craig MacTavish every once in a while would work. With even an guest Head coaching shot from Kevin Lowe at least once a year this new coaching structure might become the new NHL Hockey trend. It would certainly shake things up, because lets face it this team is down and soon will be out!
Unless, of course, the players aren't just tuning out the head coach...but the entire Oilers Alumni that currently run this organization; in which case you're just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Interesting idea though...but ideally, I don't know of any successful companies that have rotating CEOs.

One guy should run the show, the problem is in finding the RIGHT guy.

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Old
01-28-2004, 06:32 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by dawgbone
Did I say all season, or did I say 6 games?

thanks.
Oh sorry, I guess the last six games doesn't count as part of this season.

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Old
01-28-2004, 08:18 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axis
Oh sorry, I guess the last six games doesn't count as part of this season.
I should know better than trying to argue with concrete... but here it goes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by your argument
The coach puts out the same power play unit for the last 12 or so games that has not produced. Yes, I think coaching is a big problem on this team.
Quote:
Originally Posted by my response
The powerplay has been 5 for 30 (16.7%) in the last 6 games...

That is hardly not producing.
See where this is coming from? You were referring to something from a handful of games (the powerplay being the same players), and so was I. Obviously the powerplay has struggled all year, but it was working rather well in the 6 game stretch I was talking about, the same stretch of games in which you said they weren't.

Why are you trying to turn this into something it ins't?

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Old
01-29-2004, 05:49 PM
  #34
Axis
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Originally Posted by dawgbone
I should know better than trying to argue with concrete... but here it goes.





See where this is coming from? You were referring to something from a handful of games (the powerplay being the same players), and so was I. Obviously the powerplay has struggled all year, but it was working rather well in the 6 game stretch I was talking about, the same stretch of games in which you said they weren't.

Why are you trying to turn this into something it ins't?
"The power play just sucked the life out of our team," said head coach Craig MacTavish. Edmonton Journal, Thursday, January 29, 2004. (POWER OUTAGE - Joanne Ireland)

Thanks.

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Old
01-29-2004, 07:44 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axis
"The power play just sucked the life out of our team," said head coach Craig MacTavish. Edmonton Journal, Thursday, January 29, 2004. (POWER OUTAGE - Joanne Ireland)

Thanks.
That's 4 days after my post, talking about a different game...

but thanks for coming out, really, I appreciate it.

I mean, I love getting into arguments about a certain segment of games, and some yahoo trying to twist it around to me saying the whole year...

Or even better when they bring up quotes 4 days later, about a completely different game.


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