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Trade Ribeiro for Patrice Bergeron?

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Old
01-27-2004, 04:37 AM
  #1
Corey
 
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Trade Ribeiro for Patrice Bergeron?

I'd do it in a nanosecond.

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01-27-2004, 04:38 AM
  #2
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Originally Posted by Corey
I'd do it in a nanosecond.

I wouldnt.

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01-27-2004, 04:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Pierre Page
I wouldnt.
Why wouldn't you trade an 18-year-old with great potential and a more physical game (better suited for playing against the Leafs) for a hothouse orchid? Already he is a better goal scorer than Ribeiro.

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01-27-2004, 04:46 AM
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Heh. Looking to continue this nonsense, Corey? :p I can understand the frustration at least.

Well, I'm sure you know this isn't realistic. I also wouldn't do it, I don't think. I like Bergeron's game an awful lot, but Ribeiro's shown some special capabilities this year, and he's showing more dedication to the finer points of the game that I wouldn't want to see him dealt.

That's not to say that I think Ribeiro will be better than Bergeron, just that he could be something good and I'd rather hang on to assets.

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01-27-2004, 04:47 AM
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well considering theres no way in hell this trade would ever happen and also how much the kid hates le habitants this is a horrid thread

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01-27-2004, 04:50 AM
  #6
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Originally Posted by Mike8
Heh. Looking to continue this nonsense, Corey? :p I can understand the frustration at least.

Well, I'm sure you know this isn't realistic. I also wouldn't do it, I don't think. I like Bergeron's game an awful lot, but Ribeiro's shown some special capabilities this year, and he's showing more dedication to the finer points of the game that I wouldn't want to see him dealt.

That's not to say that I think Ribeiro will be better than Bergeron, just that he could be something good and I'd rather hang on to assets.
Ribeiro will be 24 in a few days. Doesn't the fact that Bergeron's doing it at age 18 enter into your equation? What will he be like at 20?

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01-27-2004, 04:52 AM
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No way I make this deal, and no way Boston trades away Bergeron after this few games anyways. Let him stay in Boston, he's dirty and he hates the Habs anyways, I dont want the little puke on my team.

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01-27-2004, 04:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corey
Ribeiro will be 24 in a few days. Doesn't the fact that Bergeron's doing it at age 18 enter into your equation? What will he be like at 20?
only god knows, but to continue on this analogy, what will ribeiro be like at 27?

who knows, ?

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01-27-2004, 04:55 AM
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Originally Posted by #44_delivers
well considering theres no way in hell this trade would ever happen and also how much the kid hates le habitants this is a horrid thread
Such a trade is implausible because Boston would never consider it, and I'd agree with them. I'm simply pointing out that the Bruins have a young francophone center who will have a better career than Ribeiro. As for it being a horrid thread, think back to the many, many never-never trade proposals that have appeared on HFBoards. Do you like them better?

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01-27-2004, 04:56 AM
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Originally Posted by MattScott
No way I make this deal, and no way Boston trades away Bergeron after this few games anyways. Let him stay in Boston, he's dirty and he hates the Habs anyways, I dont want the little puke on my team.
Yes you do.

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01-27-2004, 05:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corey
Such a trade is implausible because Boston would never consider it, and I'd agree with them. I'm simply pointing out that the Bruins have a young francophone center who will have a better career than Ribeiro. As for it being a horrid thread, think back to the many, many never-never trade proposals that have appeared on HFBoards. Do you like them better?
true on your second point, i didnt mean anything by it and i respect everyone in here except for the fool who got my hopes up about yannic leaving, that one hurt me deep.
as for bergeron having a better career then ribs, man its truely impossible to tell what will happen, bergeron's made alote of players very upset in this league and anything could happen he could just level, my point he's hot asset now but anything could happen to him and/or his develpment,
and in the other end of the straw ribs may end up getting better and better, a couple of changes in anything can cause a world of diference to there career.

my point its impossible to tell if bergeron WILL have a better career, you never know what could happen in the future, theres always a bright surprise every year, and always a dark one as well.

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01-27-2004, 05:06 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corey
Ribeiro will be 24 in a few days. Doesn't the fact that Bergeron's doing it at age 18 enter into your equation? What will he be like at 20?
Sure, age is a factor. But there's also the fact that it's not terribly uncommon for 18 year olds to come into the league and enjoy their best season, then fade away into mediocrity or in the minor leagues. Not saying that'll happen with Bergeron, but the possibility is there.

Ribeiro's shown enough to me not to want to deal him--especially to a division rival. Likewise, I'm sure the B's brass feels the same.

I'd rather the team show patience with younger players, rather than make lateral 'potential for potential' trades.

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01-27-2004, 06:24 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corey
I'd do it in a nanosecond.
sure you would, ...and i am sure that it was also the time that you take to think about the trade; one nanosecound ...


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01-27-2004, 07:21 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corey
Such a trade is implausible because Boston would never consider it, and I'd agree with them. I'm simply pointing out that the Bruins have a young francophone center who will have a better career than Ribeiro. As for it being a horrid thread, think back to the many, many never-never trade proposals that have appeared on HFBoards. Do you like them better?
I'm simply pointing out that the Bruins have a young francophone center who will have a better career than Ribeiro
then what ? what 's your point ? what do you want to prove ?


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01-27-2004, 08:02 AM
  #15
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I keep coming back to this thread because I'm confused, honestly.

Confused that the word 'trade' is, for one of the very few times, not synonymous with the name 'Koivu'. I read and I read and his name never pops up. Perhaps this is dementia. Can someone help me?

So now it's Ribeiro for Bergeron.

Let's start by saying this has to be a hypothetical because in no way, even should the Earth freeze over and the Leafs win consecutive Cups, will this ever happen. There are two teams the Habs will not trade with unless they are fleecing the other so completely it becomes a laughable matter in the papers: Boston and Toronto.

So, suspending reality for a moment, let's have a look.

These are both young players who still have their best years in front of them, though in the case of Bergeron it's somewhat less defined. As mentioned, many players have started with a bang and whimpered into nothingness in the history of the NHL, and while his robust style and certain talent would seem to defy that sad end, there are no guarantees in this game for the rookie. In the case of Ribeiro, we see a very slowly developing player, yet to reach his potential, but with a habit of not giving his all and not being overly coachable.

Bergeron is a gritty player, with some good skill, who will probably work into a decent two-way forward with solid offensive upside. Ribeiro is nearing his peak, I would guess, as a super-slick forward with Downy-soft hands (I expect the check in the mail for that blatant advertisement) and a lack of a real defensive game. Both probably have 'soft' ceilings as second line players, but with an outside shot, if progression and circumstances dictate, of first line ability.

If you prefer a player who fits in a system, plays that gritty game, will chip in solidly on the board, and will probably even be able to take a shift or two on the PK, then Bergeron is your man. If, however, you want pure scoring talent from a player who is not quite up to snuff in other areas of his game, then Ribeiro is your guy. The question then becomes, what talents comprise your team and where are your needs?

Ribeiro, quite honestly, will always be a tough sell in Montreal due to his size and lack of any strength whatsoever. Until he's surrounded by much larger players, he'll remain a target and will ultimately hold back his team from the Cup. Certainly, he can put the points on the board, and in goal-starved Montreal that's a good thing - and the number one reason he's still here. If we had serious front line talent to go with Koivu, plus a couple of real second line players, I have to wonder if Ribeiro would fit into the system that Gainey and Julien are in the process of creating.

Bergeron would be more to the liking of the Montreal management and coaching staff, but only if there was more scoring on the team. Right now, the obvious choice should be Ribeiro just for that factor alone. However, as time goes on and we fill the roster with better overall players, it might come to the point where Bergeron is the more desired commodity since his gritty style and demeanor seem to better mesh with the ultimate plan.

Based on all that, would I trade for Bergeron using Ribeiro as the bait? No.

We need what Ribeiro brings to this team at this moment in time. Take him away and you take away the leading scorer and since we have no ready replacement and Bergeron is not in the same calibre at this point, it's a poor choice.

Some would argue that we'd be getting younger in the deal and we should go with that potential. My counter-argument would be that we can only go so young before we have an AHL-calibre club. Ribeiro is not old, and we need that age group on the club as much as we need the kids.

Furthermore, and quite possibly the nail in the coffin in such a deal, we have a youngster by the name of Chris Higgins who, for all intents and purposes, will challenge for that second line spot in the very near future. Some might argue that on another organization, he'd already be in the NHL at this point - particularly since it's a well documented fact that the Habs are very careful with their kids and almost always give them at least one year of seasoning in the AHL.

In fact, if we did make this trade today, I would say there would be an extremely high chance that Bergeron would find himself in the AHL before the season ended. And then the trade falls into the realm of the silly, since you've traded an NHL-calibre player for someone who may just be working on his game with other kids of his age.

ACF

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01-27-2004, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy!
I keep coming back to this thread because I'm confused, honestly.

Confused that the word 'trade' is, for one of the very few times, not synonymous with the name 'Koivu'. I read and I read and his name never pops up. Perhaps this is dementia. Can someone help me?

So now it's Ribeiro for Bergeron.

Let's start by saying this has to be a hypothetical because in no way, even should the Earth freeze over and the Leafs win consecutive Cups, will this ever happen. There are two teams the Habs will not trade with unless they are fleecing the other so completely it becomes a laughable matter in the papers: Boston and Toronto.

So, suspending reality for a moment, let's have a look.

These are both young players who still have their best years in front of them, though in the case of Bergeron it's somewhat less defined. As mentioned, many players have started with a bang and whimpered into nothingness in the history of the NHL, and while his robust style and certain talent would seem to defy that sad end, there are no guarantees in this game for the rookie. In the case of Ribeiro, we see a very slowly developing player, yet to reach his potential, but with a habit of not giving his all and not being overly coachable.

Bergeron is a gritty player, with some good skill, who will probably work into a decent two-way forward with solid offensive upside. Ribeiro is nearing his peak, I would guess, as a super-slick forward with Downy-soft hands (I expect the check in the mail for that blatant advertisement) and a lack of a real defensive game. Both probably have 'soft' ceilings as second line players, but with an outside shot, if progression and circumstances dictate, of first line ability.

If you prefer a player who fits in a system, plays that gritty game, will chip in solidly on the board, and will probably even be able to take a shift or two on the PK, then Bergeron is your man. If, however, you want pure scoring talent from a player who is not quite up to snuff in other areas of his game, then Ribeiro is your guy. The question then becomes, what talents comprise your team and where are your needs?

Ribeiro, quite honestly, will always be a tough sell in Montreal due to his size and lack of any strength whatsoever. Until he's surrounded by much larger players, he'll remain a target and will ultimately hold back his team from the Cup. Certainly, he can put the points on the board, and in goal-starved Montreal that's a good thing - and the number one reason he's still here. If we had serious front line talent to go with Koivu, plus a couple of real second line players, I have to wonder if Ribeiro would fit into the system that Gainey and Julien are in the process of creating.

Bergeron would be more to the liking of the Montreal management and coaching staff, but only if there was more scoring on the team. Right now, the obvious choice should be Ribeiro just for that factor alone. However, as time goes on and we fill the roster with better overall players, it might come to the point where Bergeron is the more desired commodity since his gritty style and demeanor seem to better mesh with the ultimate plan.

Based on all that, would I trade for Bergeron using Ribeiro as the bait? No.

We need what Ribeiro brings to this team at this moment in time. Take him away and you take away the leading scorer and since we have no ready replacement and Bergeron is not in the same calibre at this point, it's a poor choice.

Some would argue that we'd be getting younger in the deal and we should go with that potential. My counter-argument would be that we can only go so young before we have an AHL-calibre club. Ribeiro is not old, and we need that age group on the club as much as we need the kids.

Furthermore, and quite possibly the nail in the coffin in such a deal, we have a youngster by the name of Chris Higgins who, for all intents and purposes, will challenge for that second line spot in the very near future. Some might argue that on another organization, he'd already be in the NHL at this point - particularly since it's a well documented fact that the Habs are very careful with their kids and almost always give them at least one year of seasoning in the AHL.

In fact, if we did make this trade today, I would say there would be an extremely high chance that Bergeron would find himself in the AHL before the season ended. And then the trade falls into the realm of the silly, since you've traded an NHL-calibre player for someone who may just be working on his game with other kids of his age.

ACF
i got to say guy your english writing grammar is impecable, smooth and yet contro..to the fullest, as a journalist seaking its way to its prime directive.

but yet i disagree.

i have witnessed many things but ribs is quite a unsolved piece he is not close to his developtment, he is just merely into it, he slows to the grit, d, and many other aspects of this icelandic game, but he is without a doubt a visionary of mass perportions.
ive seen bergeron play but he may feel, and experiance his levelness which i feel he most certainly has done, his peak is now.
as for ribs he will excell in every aspect of this game.
i feel ribs is truely a student, even at pulling nearly .87 ppg he is not at all near his potential. he is the "anomaly", the dimensia: in which you speak of.

and i have witnessed many bruins games this year.


straight up i would still go with ribs.

he has only opened the tap to his greater being, while i feel bergeron has emptied his last drop.

i have seen 15 b games this year, the kid is nothing special.


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Old
01-27-2004, 08:47 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattScott
No way I make this deal, and no way Boston trades away Bergeron after this few games anyways. Let him stay in Boston, he's dirty and he hates the Habs anyways, I dont want the little puke on my team.
You would love the little puke on your TEAM, who are you kidding.

What do you have to offer for BERGERON? A 2 hit wonder.

He's dirty, what do you mean are you saying he had a fight
with the soap.

You would take this kid in a heartbeat. Bergeron is a flower
in the making




The is on you.


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01-27-2004, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNNY V
You would love the little puke on your TEAM, who are kidding.

What do you have to offer for BERGERON? A 2 hit wonder.

He's dirty, what do you mean are you saying he had a fight
with the soap.

You would take this kid in a heartbeat. Bergeron is a flower
in the making




The is on you.
ive seen enough b's games but johnny you will not get forsberg for this kid like your fellow bruins fan chums would like to see, in my thoughts he has flourished to his max.
dont give him too much credit now thats not your style is it? he's not even a half season wonder. like the 2 hit wonder you o' so hate.

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01-27-2004, 09:46 AM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #44_delivers
ive seen enough b's games but johnny you will not get forsberg for this kid like your fellow bruins fan chums would like to see, in my thoughts he has flourished to his max.
dont give him too much credit now thats not your style is it? he's not even a half season wonder. like the 2 hit wonder you o' so hate.



agreed ... half season wonder

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01-27-2004, 09:47 AM
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agreed ... half season wonder
like theo ???
i only wish
oh no he's messier right?, at 18, you need this kid to boost your morale

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01-27-2004, 11:31 AM
  #21
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Originally Posted by Corey
I'd do it in a nanosecond.
With Bruins and Canadiens in same division question is highly academic... but I would absolutely do it. This without taking anything away from Ribs.

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01-27-2004, 11:33 AM
  #22
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I think by Johnny's math, he's saying that Ribs is twice the player Theo is. Ribeiro is one of those players who you have to judge by his end results rather than from shift to shift. Bergeron is playing well on a particular team this year. He isn't a HOF shoo in yet though. A lot of players will look better than Ribs and be more to a perceived protype player, but the numbers do count. Before I get too long winded, I think Corey's trying to prove a point here regarding trades that couldn't happen.

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01-27-2004, 05:35 PM
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I didn't expect such a long, thoughtful reply from Guy, who takes the matter seriously. Anyway, now that the thread has attracted so many posters, I'll expand upon it. I was dismayed by the passivity displayed by the Habs against the Leafs on Saturday. I saw how easily they managed Ribeiro (forget the assist, he was a freeloading passenger on Zednik's goal). I thought it would be great to have someone with fire in his belly, someone who could inflict rather than turn the other cheek. In short, someone you'd want to dress against the Leafs or another team like them.

When I brought up the respective ages, someone asked what Ribeiro would be at age 27. What indeed? He'll have more experience, of course, but physically he won't be that different. He's not a big-boned lad, so he can't put on that much more weight without it slowing him down. Does anyone expect him to be a goal scorer of note? Not in my eyes. He'll never get into the range of a Pierre Turgeon, for instance. Bergeron will get bigger and stronger, and he'll always have that advantage over Ribeiro. And he won't be as dependent on teammates as Ribeiro.

I laughed my head off at the poster who predicts that Bergeron is at his peak now. At 18?Can anyone give a reasonable explanation why Bergeron, who at the start of the season received little ice time, now has more goals than Ribeiro, who has been in the NHL a lot longer and is playing on every PP and on a top line?

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01-27-2004, 05:52 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #44_delivers
i got to say guy your english writing grammar is impecable, smooth and yet contro..to the fullest, as a journalist seaking its way to its prime directive.

but yet i disagree.

i have witnessed many things but ribs is quite a unsolved piece he is not close to his developtment, he is just merely into it, he slows to the grit, d, and many other aspects of this icelandic game, but he is without a doubt a visionary of mass perportions.
ive seen bergeron play but he may feel, and experiance his levelness which i feel he most certainly has done, his peak is now.
as for ribs he will excell in every aspect of this game.
i feel ribs is truely a student, even at pulling nearly .87 ppg he is not at all near his potential. he is the "anomaly", the dimensia: in which you speak of.

and i have witnessed many bruins games this year.


straight up i would still go with ribs.

he has only opened the tap to his greater being, while i feel bergeron has emptied his last drop.

i have seen 15 b games this year, the kid is nothing special.
wow, not even ounce of obvectivity, huh.

Bergeron, at 18, in his first season, has already "emptied his last drop"?


Damm, where were u when the B's signed him for more than one year, if he retires after this season, do we still have to pay him?????

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