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Old
01-24-2008, 10:14 AM
  #51
Ozymandias
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habitants View Post
ok here is what I predict will happen.

as much as i dislike Huet, the habs should sign him this summer. give him a 4 year 16 mil contract, hopefully he accepts that.then he is the starting goalie for next year.

as mentioned Halak would need to clear waivers next season to go down or up. so keep him as backup all the time, and there is no problem.

This leaves price in Hamilton for more work.

as the trade deadline approaches NEXT season, assess the situation, and see if Price is able to come up and start, or if Halak can be starter.

Trade Huet at the deadline next season or before depending on Halak/Price progress.

feel sily for signing him then trading him not long after, but i feel that this is what will happen...

i feel bad for Yan Danis, who has some potential in the NHL, and will never make it with the habs. they should trade him to another team if they can.

And for the love of god would carbo give Halak a start already this season!? He played pretty good for them down the stretch last year while huet was out!

Now THAT is more NHL-type, conservative-SilentBob type management. It's not a question of what we want but HOW to manage these situations in real life. Real life has Gainey as GM, Gainey is conservative, so you have to analyse the situation conservatively. Kudos to you for staying logical.

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01-24-2008, 10:16 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckhead58 View Post
So you think Price is ready to be an NHL starter because he played 2 good games against the 28th ranked team in the league????? Makes a lot of sense....NOPE!!!!

Give your head a shake. Price is not ready for the NHL yet, otherwise he wouldnt have been sent down to Hamilton??? Halak is way ahead of him as far as being ready for NHL action. Halak played well last year when Huet was injured, he provided solid goaltending since Abby couldn't get the job done. Price had the same chance this season when Huet went down and he didn't do near as well as Halak did last year and we have a much better team this year than last year, so if anything that just proves that Halak is ahead of Price.

I know your a Price fan and that you don't care for Huet, but your arguement holds no water as far as I'm concerned!!!
I care for Huet, I think he's a good goalie. I don't think he's a goaltender who can win you a play-off series by himself and it's yet to be proven if he can handle the full work-load of a long grueling stanley cup play-offs. That being said with Huet and Price I will point out their mistakes. Huet right now is in his zone, he's stopping the big chances, he's controlling his rebounds and he's not panicking in the crease.

Price is not ready to be an undisputed number 1 yet, but I don't think he's that far off. For him it's a matter of tweaking a few things in his technique, getting the confidence to challenge the shooter and getting used to the kind of shots he's going to face in the NHL. If we have to bring Huet back for one year and give him an albatross type contract, do it, but I'm not one for seeing him through a long-term deal.. One year at 6 million if we have to, as it is only on the books for one season.

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01-24-2008, 10:23 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Booky View Post
And that argument is just supporting Huet cause.
Carrying the team for the past 3 years.
What did Bryz accomplish to receive such a lucrative contract ?

Goalies to have signed an extension over the past few months:
Kipper : 35 M $ over 6 years
Osgood: 4,25 M $ over 3 years
Mason : 6 M $ over 2 years
Toskala : 8M $ over 2 years
Bryz: 12,75 M $ over 3 years

Huet is MUCH better than Mason and Toskala.
His comparable would be Bryz. and if was his agent i would push for a Kipper comparison (far fetched...)
So a 15 M $ for 3 years seems very reasonable.

BTW you should read this thread again to read the prvious posts i made.
PS: Be respectfull when you post, i kinda felt insulted OZ
Although i still like you...
Okay, I'll repeat and add some...

1- Comparisons aren't always used in negociations. It all depends on the sort of agent and the GM, so no point of focusing so much on player comparison. Anyway, if you wanna go down that road, Bryz is 4 years younger so right there the comparison is worthless. Also, he did much more in the playoffs than Huet. Just to bring the poitn home a little further, I could give a list of goalies who make about the same amount of money as Bryz, but have performed well beyond Huet and Bryz. You can find comparisons that play the other way too, so there is just no point. A quick example is Brodeur. Better yet, the team who signed Bryz have done contract mistakes in the past such as Jovocop, this can be given in example of overpayment for Bryz too. Khabibulin is another example.

2- What makes you so sure Huet cares more about equaling Bryz's salary than staying in Montreal? Cuz if we look at the past, Huet tends more to go with compromise to stay here rather than going out for the big bucks. have you forgotten that Huet did not wait till July first for his UFA status and instead signed at rebate to stay in Montreal. THAT has a much bigger impact than simple comparisons.

Don't feel insulted, I'm just overly tired of comparisons being overrated.

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01-24-2008, 10:33 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Okay, I'll repeat and add some...

1- Comparisons aren't always used in negociations. It all depends on the sort of agent and the GM, so no point of focusing so much on player comparison. Anyway, if you wanna go down that road, Bryz is 4 years younger so right there the comparison is worthless. Also, he did much more in the playoffs than Huet. Just to bring the poitn home a little further, I could give a list of goalies who make about the same amount of money as Bryz, but have performed well beyond Huet and Bryz. You can find comparisons that play the other way too, so there is just no point. A quick example is Brodeur. Better yet, the team who signed Bryz have done contract mistakes in the past such as Jovocop, this can be given in example of overpayment for Bryz too. Khabibulin is another example.

2- What makes you so sure Huet cares more about equaling Bryz's salary than staying in Montreal? Cuz if we look at the past, Huet tends more to go with compromise to stay here rather than going out for the big bucks. have you forgotten that Huet did not wait till July first for his UFA status and instead signed at rebate to stay in Montreal. THAT has a much bigger impact than simple comparisons.

Don't feel insulted, I'm just overly tired of comparisons being overrated.
Brodeur signed after the lock-out (3 years ago). The market changed
The contracts i've mentionned have been signed over the passed few months are indicative of that market.

I understand there is way more than comparables but its inevitable that the Bryz contract will come up during the Huet negotiations.

Listen OZ if Huet signs for less money than Bryz i promise i will buy you a very expensive present to show how much respect i have for calling it how it is from this far away.

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01-24-2008, 11:14 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Booky View Post
Brodeur signed after the lock-out (3 years ago). The market changed
The contracts i've mentionned have been signed over the passed few months are indicative of that market.

I understand there is way more than comparables but its inevitable that the Bryz contract will come up during the Huet negotiations.

Listen OZ if Huet signs for less money than Bryz i promise i will buy you a very expensive present to show how much respect i have for calling it how it is from this far away.
What About Rollie (3,666) who did more than Huet with a loosy team.

Backstrom in Minnesota at 3,1 per year who signed last summer if I'm correct (as a UFA and is one of the goalies whose situation is very similar to Huet's... same age, same type of nice short term accomplishments, way more a comparable than Bryz.

Dipietro, 4,5 per year. (more experience, more accomplishments)

Lundqvist, 4,25 per year (and who can argue Huet is better than Henrik, for as much as I like Huet, he ain't there)

Biron at 3,5

Mason signed at 3,0 per year



You use the comparisons that reflect your view.... when we use all the post lockout era goalie signings, even some recent ones, it doesn't exactly reflect the picture you tried to paint.

Don't get a over this....

Huet won't get more than 4 mil per year or several season WITH the habs... no biding, no UFA status, all done before July 1st UNLESS, ONE BIG miracle could happen is that Price would go on a roll in the playoffs (the NHL pos, mind you), then I think the Habs might assess the situation quite differently, but besides that, I'll stick to the numbers I just gave.

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01-24-2008, 11:18 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
What About Rollie (3,666) who did more than Huet with a loosy team.

Backstrom in Minnesota at 3,1 per year who signed last summer if I'm correct (as a UFA and is one of the goalies whose situation is very similar to Huet's... same age, same type of nice short term accomplishments, way more a comparable than Bryz.

Dipietro, 4,5 per year. (more experience, more accomplishments)

Lundqvist, 4,25 per year (and who can argue Huet is better than Henrik, for as much as I like Huet, he ain't there)

Biron at 3,5

Mason signed at 3,0 per year



You use the comparisons that reflect your view.... when we use all the post lockout era goalie signings, even some recent ones, it doesn't exactly reflect the picture you tried to paint.

Don't get a over this....

Huet won't get more than 4 mil per year or several season WITH the habs... no biding, no UFA status, all done before July 1st UNLESS, ONE BIG miracle could happen is that Price would go on a roll in the playoffs (the NHL pos, mind you), then I think the Habs might assess the situation quite differently, but besides that, I'll stick to the numbers I just gave.
Then i believe we have a bet.

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01-24-2008, 11:29 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Booky View Post
Then i believe we have a bet.
Well.... jsut saying there is a bet doesn't make it....

What do you wanna bet and most importantly and what manner?

la Price is right (no pun intended, but its very ironic)??

The one who gets closer to the -per year- amount? Do we include the number of seansons, does it really matter?

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01-24-2008, 11:43 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
I care for Huet, I think he's a good goalie. I don't think he's a goaltender who can win you a play-off series by himself and it's yet to be proven if he can handle the full work-load of a long grueling stanley cup play-offs. That being said with Huet and Price I will point out their mistakes. Huet right now is in his zone, he's stopping the big chances, he's controlling his rebounds and he's not panicking in the crease.

Price is not ready to be an undisputed number 1 yet, but I don't think he's that far off. For him it's a matter of tweaking a few things in his technique, getting the confidence to challenge the shooter and getting used to the kind of shots he's going to face in the NHL. If we have to bring Huet back for one year and give him an albatross type contract, do it, but I'm not one for seeing him through a long-term deal.. One year at 6 million if we have to, as it is only on the books for one season.

I agree with what your saying. You're right, Huet hasn't proven himself in the playoffs yet so who knows what we may get from him this year when the playoffs begin. I also agree that Price isn't ready for the #1 job yet too, but I think he is further away than a lot of people really want to believe....but thats my opinion.

However, I still don't see why we should give Huet a $6 million dollar contract for next year just to keep him around. He is a great goalie, but he isn't worth 6 million a year and its mostly because of his injuries and inability to play 60 games a year.

I think if he will re-sign for $3-4 million a year than we should re-sign him for another 2 years, we'll get our 50 games out of him, Halak or Price can get the other 30 games. If Price is showing that he is progressing then we get rid of Halak and go with Huet and Price for the 2nd year of Huet's contract and the year after that the #1 job is Price's to lose.

I just don't want the Habs organization to rush Price into a position he is not ready for. He played decent while he was with the Habs this year, but he had some pretty bad games too and the whole crying episode in the dressing room after his last game just proves he wasn't ready this year.
There is a lot of pressure on any goalie that plays net for the Canadiens because of the great history of the team and the great goaltenders who have played there in the past.
Price will be great for the Habs someday soon, but we can't rush him into a situation he is not comfortable with or we will be ruining our best prospect.

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01-24-2008, 11:49 AM
  #59
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I am a little hesitant to do this.

Who here has the balls to bet Cristobal Huet will sign for $4 million or more a season?

I have a real good idea for a bet, and it's a little drastic, but here it is:

IF Cristobal Huet signs for anything lessthan $4 million a season ON AVERAGE, meaning if he gets 2-year/$8 mil, $6 mil the first and $2 mil the second, I still win...you guys will be allowed to vote on my new username, how does that sound?

I bet my USERNAME that Huet will sign for minimum $4 mil a year.

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01-24-2008, 11:52 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
I would overpay Huet on a short term contract, if it were me. give him $5M each for 2 years, and revisit the issue in 2 more seasons (not coincidentally when Price's rookie contract expires).
I don't know if 5 would do it, but I think you're definitely on the right track... The only down side I can see to it is that we'd probably lose our chance at the top UFA centers in the meantime.

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01-24-2008, 11:55 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Cristobal Huet View Post
I am a little hesitant to do this.

Who here has the balls to bet Cristobal Huet will sign for $4 million or more a season?

I have a real good idea for a bet, and it's a little drastic, but here it is:

IF Cristobal Huet signs for anything lessthan $4 million a season ON AVERAGE, meaning if he gets 2-year/$8 mil, $6 mil the first and $2 mil the second, I still win...you guys will be allowed to vote on my new username, how does that sound?

I bet my USERNAME that Huet will sign for minimum $4 mil a year.
I'm not going to take that bet, because I think you're right...

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01-24-2008, 11:57 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Cristobal Huet View Post
I am a little hesitant to do this.

Who here has the balls to bet Cristobal Huet will sign for $4 million or more a season?

I have a real good idea for a bet, and it's a little drastic, but here it is:

IF Cristobal Huet signs for anything lessthan $4 million a season ON AVERAGE, meaning if he gets 2-year/$8 mil, $6 mil the first and $2 mil the second, I still win...you guys will be allowed to vote on my new username, how does that sound?

I bet my USERNAME that Huet will sign for minimum $4 mil a year.

I've already took a bet with LafleursGuy over whether Huet will sign with Montreal or not. The looser will have to keep a predetermined signature.... for four months.

So in september, expect LafleursGuy to have a sig that says "Ozymandias is the king of kings. Look on his works Ye mighty and despair!"

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01-24-2008, 01:15 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
Let me try to explain my point of view.

At this moment, Carey Price, a highly touted and terrific prospect, is in Hamilton, working to improve his game, after having had a stint in Montreal that showed his excellent potential. Meanwhile, Cristobal Huet is in Montreal, where for the third consecutive year he is among the NHL leaders in save percentage and goals against average.

In 2007-2008, the Habs are four points in the loss column out of first place in the conference. They are only 1 point out of second place. They are 8 points up on the 9th place team. In other words, the Habs are a legitimate playoff team with an outside shot of causing some trouble in the playoffs, particularly since teams with good road records typically do well in playoffs.

With the continued progression of the young and mid-young Habs core, and the solid play of veterans like Kovalev and Hamrlik, the goal in 2008-2009 will be to try to win the Cup. Bob Gainey, an experienced NHL GM who has been to the Stanley Cup finals three times and won one Cup since joining management, is well aware of the club's chances to hit the jackpot next year. His focus in managing the team and the payroll within the salary cap will be to keep all the core players he can, plus ADD perhaps some additional elements at a reasonable cost.

Cristobal Huet is a part of the Habs core. I repeat, Cristobal Huet is a part of the Habs core. Because Cristobal Huet is a part of the Habs core, Bob Gainey will be doing whatever he can to keep him on the team. He might have to "overpay" a bit to keep him, as some think he did with Andrei Markov, Saku Koivu and Alexei Kovalev the last time each of them signed a contract, but he probably does not see this as overpayment. In the reality of today's NHL, veterans who are core members of one's team can and do get rewarded with nice contracts.

The market will set the price for Cristobal Huet, and Bob Gainey will in all likelihood ultimately sign him, if that's what he wants to do. Because Cristobal Huet is a part of the Habs core.
Definitely good arguments. Very well laid out.
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
Let me give you another example.

After the 2008-2009 season, Mike Komisarek will be UFA. Like Cristobal Huet, Komisarek is a part of the Habs core. I expect, therefore, that Bob Gainey will do whatever it takes to re-sign him, even if some highly touted terrific prospect such as Alexei Emelin is in Hamilton refining his game after having had a brief stint in Montreal where he showed really good potential.

The essence of my point is this: no matter how good some of their prospects are, contending teams do not take chances with their core players, and the #1 goaltender on a team, especially one in the top third of the league's performers, is a core player.

If a smart GM of a contending team protects his assets and signs his #1 goalie to a market-driven contract, and in a year or two years or three years, a prospect has progressed so much that he has overtaken him and proven that he can hold the #1 spot, and there is a decent enough goalie around who can hold the #2 spot, then the old #1 can be moved to another team looking for a quality goalie, and another asset acquired in return.

Also, if by, say 2011, the Habs are no longer a contender, for any reason, then it MIGHT be a good move to trade the signed veteran #1 goalie to help re-build, when there is a solid prospect in place to be groomed to be part of the NEXT contending core.

But it all starts with signing Cristobal Huet, a part of the Habs core.
Only thing is that I think that they DO see Price as their future and probably the immediate future. I'm not sure that Huet is going to want to sign with a club where he'll be waiting for somebody to take his job.

Obviously we'd love to have him back, but I'm not sure that we'll be able to get him back under the terms we'd like. Moreover, bringing him back means we probably lose Halak... and I hate the idea of that happening. I don't see us keeping Price in Hamilton next year. He's the future of our club and it would be a complete waste of his talents. There's nothing more for him to learn there.

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01-24-2008, 01:16 PM
  #64
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You're right, as a signed player he will have more value, but I still wouldn't consider him 'highly tradeable' and I don't think we'll get all that much coming back.
And 4 mil in 2010 may or may not be dirt cheap. That'll depend on whether the cap goes up or down. Keep in mind it's decided by revenue and though it's gone up the last 2 yrs, we'll see if that continues. There are a lot of teams struggling with fan support, even some of the big market teams, and that is never a good sign.
IF he continues playing like he has in the last 3 years, there will always be teams out there that would gladly take him off our hands.

He's a rock-solid NHL starter, with a very good contract. He'll be extremely attractive to any team who is struggling in the goaltending department. Especially a contender.

I'm not saying he'll get a bluechip prospect, but he could certainly help us pickup big name player who has asked for a trade, or deal with a team looking to dump salary.

And ya, I'm assuming the cap will go up, and I think that's really a safe bet. Inflation alone should insure that, and the NHL continues to grow revenues, so there's no reason to expect otherwise. The cap will likely be at least $60mill by then.

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01-24-2008, 01:16 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
I've already took a bet with LafleursGuy over whether Huet will sign with Montreal or not. The looser will have to keep a predetermined signature.... for four months.

So in september, expect LafleursGuy to have a sig that says "Ozymandias is the king of kings. Look on his works Ye mighty and despair!"
We'll see.

And to be honest, I wouldn't mind having Huet back at all, he's been great for us. Its losing Halak that bothers me.

And I just think we'll lose Huet.

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01-24-2008, 01:18 PM
  #66
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We'll see.

And to be honest, I wouldn't mind having Huet back at all, he's been great for us. Its losing Halak that bothers me.

And I just think we'll lose Huet.
Yessssssssssssss... we will sssssssssssssssssssssee......

Mwouhahahahahahahahaha....

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01-24-2008, 01:26 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
We'll see.

And to be honest, I wouldn't mind having Huet back at all, he's been great for us. Its losing Halak that bothers me.

And I just think we'll lose Huet.
There's no reason to assume we'll lose Halak.

He's only what, 22??

We have plenty of time to assess Halak, and he'll probably get his fair chance at taking the #1 spot from Huet.

There's no reason to believe that Price is going to be the backup next season. That seems to be the assumption you're making.

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01-24-2008, 01:33 PM
  #68
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There's no reason to assume we'll lose Halak.

He's only what, 22??

We have plenty of time to assess Halak, and he'll probably get his fair chance at taking the #1 spot from Huet.
Halak has said that he'd give the Habs this season to make a decision. He's got other offers in Europe and would probably leave.
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Originally Posted by yukoner View Post
There's no reason to believe that Price is going to be the backup next season. That seems to be the assumption you're making.
It would shock me if he isn't with Montreal and I don't think it would be the right move for him at this point. But yeah, you're right its possible they could keep him in Hamilton.

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01-24-2008, 01:37 PM
  #69
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Halak has said that he'd give the Habs this season to make a decision. He's got other offers in Europe and would probably leave.
Do you have a link to that?? I can't remember him saying anything like that...but I could be wrong.

Edit - Actually after a little research, it seems that's a rumour started by Yvon Pednault. That's pretty un-credible really...and it seems both Halak and his Agent have denied it.

Quote:
Despite receiving an offer from a Russian club to play overseas, goalie Jaroslav Halak remains committed to the Canadiens, reports Montreal's La Presse.

Various rumors have popped up lately suggesting Halak's disappointment with starting the year in the AHL has led the young netminder to demanding a trade.

Halak's agent, David Schaita, denies his client is hoping to be dealt.

"I have known Bob Gainey for 35 years and he is not the kind of man with whom one makes these kinds of demands," Schatia told La Presse. "We have not asked for a trade."

Schatia admitted that Halak received an offer from a team in the Russian Super League after training camp, but refused to identify the club and rejected the proposal.

"I never really considered the offer," Halak told the paper. "There is still one year remaining on my contract [with Montreal] and I want nothing to do with something that gets in the way of my objective of playing in the NHL."
http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/mtl071104.html


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01-24-2008, 01:44 PM
  #70
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Halak has said that he'd give the Habs this season to make a decision. He's got other offers in Europe and would probably leave.
Uh, he'll still be the property of the Habs (in the NHL) as Perezhogin is still a property of the Habs in the NHL. I don't remember the specific rules, but for a certain according to certain specifications, if Halak wants back into the NHL, he'll still be a Habs for some time, which is probably until 2-4 years from now.

Quote:
It would shock me if he isn't with Montreal and I don't think it would be the right move for him at this point. But yeah, you're right its possible they could keep him in Hamilton.
Not too sure about that, because you are right about Jaro's commentary about leaving. But, for me, among Jaro, Huet and Carey, Jaro is the least of my worries, not that I don't like him, but just by degree of importance.

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01-24-2008, 01:52 PM
  #71
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Price is not good enough to be our starter yet. Halak would be better suited for that imo. We need to sign Huet, otherwise BG will be taking a huge risk on his goaltending.

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01-24-2008, 01:53 PM
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Halak "Never really considered the offer".

That's pretty clear. His goal is to play in the NHL, and the only way he can do that is by staying with the habs. He's not interested in going to Russia to play in the RSL.

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01-24-2008, 01:57 PM
  #73
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If I'm Huets agent, I'm looking at this offseason, as our big chance to cash in. I would be looking for a minimum of 4 years, and a minimum of 4.25 per. Probably asking for something around 4.75 per. Given his age and inability to hold up for a full year, I don't see him getting more than that, despite the fact he has been one of the top goalies in the NHL for the past 2 years.

If I'm Gainey I'd be looking to sign Huet for 4.25 per over 4, and have him start with Halak backing him up next year. Let Halak prove himself over the course of the year, and either deal him at the deadline or in the offseason. Then have Price and Huet share the nets for the following 2 years, and then try to deal Huet in the last year of his contract.

I think that would work out for everyone involved.

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01-24-2008, 02:02 PM
  #74
Ozymandias
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
If I'm Huets agent, I'm looking at this offseason, as our big chance to cash in. I would be looking for a minimum of 4 years, and a minimum of 4.25 per. Probably asking for something around 4.75 per. Given his age and inability to hold up for a full year, I don't see him getting more than that, despite the fact he has been one of the top goalies in the NHL for the past 2 years.

If I'm Gainey I'd be looking to sign Huet for 4.25 per over 4, and have him start with Halak backing him up next year. Let Halak prove himself over the course of the year, and either deal him at the deadline or in the offseason. Then have Price and Huet share the nets for the following 2 years, and then try to deal Huet in the last year of his contract.

I think that would work out for everyone involved.


I agree with everything, except that he'll probably will demand less than 4,75 considering other contracts than Bryz... I f we consider Backstrom, Lundqvist and several others, Huet will get around 4 mil... a bit more if he's lucky or relinquishes a year or two on the lenght of the contract.

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01-24-2008, 02:23 PM
  #75
hogtownhabsfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
I agree with everything, except that he'll probably will demand less than 4,75 considering other contracts than Bryz... I f we consider Backstrom, Lundqvist and several others, Huet will get around 4 mil... a bit more if he's lucky or relinquishes a year or two on the lenght of the contract.
I think that's wishful thinking. 4 years, 17 mill is the contractual floor if Huet has a competent agent. Remember the cap is probably going to increase again a bit as well.

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